SvN Job Board: Finding good people David 25 Apr 2006

80 comments Latest by Rugby Fan Steve

Announcing the Signal vs. Noise Job Board. Our answer to the dozens of requests we’ve been getting every week for a while now: “Do you know where I can find a good designer?”, “Who’s available to do Ruby on Rails work?”, “Have you heard about any project managers being available?”.

It’s $250 to post a job. You get 500 characters to make your pitch and it stays up for 30 days.

We will be promoting the job board in various ways over the next few months including a permanent position in the SvN sidebar which is seen by tens of thousands of people every day.

80 comments so far (Jump to latest)

matt 25 Apr 06

great idea

Vince 25 Apr 06

Great idea indeed - dig the “250/500/30” instructions. Doesn’t get much more straightforward than that…

Tom 25 Apr 06

If you’re advertising this in the sidebar… doesn’t that count as adding another ad? And wouldn’t that violate the terms of The Deck?

Unless you’re linking to it like all of your other products, I suppose.

JF 25 Apr 06

Tom, we’re not “advertising” in the sidebar, we’re linking to the job board like we link to our products in the sidebar.

Dan Boland 25 Apr 06

I wonder how long it will take for the detractors to come out of the woodwork… This is a good idea. I’m sure the quality of postings will be a hell of a lot better than Craigslist…

Chad Sakonchick 25 Apr 06

Man, 7 postings already!? Ya’ll sure know how to monetize this site.

dave rau 25 Apr 06

Reeeeally smart idea guys, solid.

Tyler K 25 Apr 06

Great idea guys! I applied for the job at the Onion you posted a while back and it led to an interview. Unfortunately, it didn’t result in a position at the time and I’m happy where I am, but you sure do know your readers…

F 25 Apr 06

I noticed you haven’t bothered with any legal for it - no terms of service, etc.

How important do you think it is to get a terms of service, especially when you could be dealing with the big boys?

Gayle 25 Apr 06

Man, that is the nicest setup and sign-up I’ve seen in a while. I love when people practice what they preach :)

Rafael Lima 25 Apr 06

You really really know how to use the web in your favor. I hope learn with you and apply your concepts here in Brazil… Congratulations!

Chuck Norris 25 Apr 06

$$cha-ching$$

congrats on finding more ways to profit off your readership

Tracey 25 Apr 06

Is the job board powerd by Rails? If so, I am interested in the payment library you guys are using. Thanks.

scott brooks 25 Apr 06

I love it. Guys great idea and delivery on the job board.

The companies seeking people are going to be the big winners in this prospect. Imagine the increadibly talented people that will be applying for jobs? Wow ….every person is already prescreened.
Prescreened in terms of their thinking and strategies.

The talent pool for these jobs will be great.

Unfortunatly if you are trying to land these jobs the competition will be intense! Can you imagine the people that read this blog daily that could potentially apply ……phew!!

Good luck and make those resumes snappy.

cheers

Scott

JF 25 Apr 06

Yes it’s in Rails and it’s the same commerce/payment engine we use for our workshops and our book. We built it.

Matt 25 Apr 06

This is a fantastic idea!

My 2 cents - I think the first post should be free. I don’t know if I’m representative of your readers, but I work for a tiny (

However, $250 is not “nothing” just to to test this out. If I were able to post 1 free add, and confirm my hunch that we’ll get a few great responses, then I’d happily plunk down $250 every time we need a freelancer.

IOW - At $250 per posting, I’d be a repeat/frequent customer if I knew I stood a reasonable chance of getting good responses. But $250 is too much for me just to test the water.

Anyway, best of luck with the new feature!

gwg 25 Apr 06

Based on the current clients, I’d just see if they keep repeating. They’re testing the waters for you! If they’re getting good result, you probably will too.

ML 25 Apr 06

The companies seeking people are going to be the big winners in this prospect. Imagine the increadibly talented people that will be applying for jobs?…Prescreened in terms of their thinking and strategies.

We hope so. While making $ is a certainly a goal here, it’s not the only one. As David mentioned in the original post, we get hit up all the time by friends and colleagues who are looking for talented people. Now we can point them somewhere instead of just shrugging. Hopefully this board will be a solid tool for connecting people and companies who value simplicity, usability, Getting Real, etc.

I think the first post should be free.

While offering free posts would be nice, we fear they would take away from the overall quality of the listings. Having exclusively paid ads should keep the quality of posts high and the tone serious.

Brenda 25 Apr 06

Looking forward to the first job posting for an IA :)

Dave P 25 Apr 06

Brilliant Move.

I’d love to check out some of the jobs that come through your site, in line with Matt’s thinking of “Similar thinking”.

Good Job Guys!

nsidney 25 Apr 06

What about the inverse where good programmers and designers can advertise themselves in a different section of the site? It seems like you might get more postings from offering both (obviously ;-).

Boris 25 Apr 06

I think I posted the first listing (for Fleck) besides the example ones that were there (from CNET and NYTimes) and so far I’m very happy with the results.

I received the first resume within minutes of posting the ad and have received more than 100 unique visitors from this site in less than an hour.

The traffic should/could be considered a welcome side-effect. If you are looking for people I recommend spending your money here, and now, while there aren’t many listings yet.

jetrac 25 Apr 06

Great idea except for the fact that I’d like to see it be less $. $250 makes it nearly entirely out of reach for folks coming from the non-profit world. And why do that?

Chad Brandt 25 Apr 06

We’ll probably see a few “For Hire” posts before too long. But is $250 a good value for a job seeker?

And will 37s discourage a “For Hire” submission?

Kevin 25 Apr 06

Why would they let freelancers post for free and clog the system with every mini jedi-master of rails begging for a job? There is a consistent undertone from 37s everytime they release something… ‘watch us do something simple and make money at it.’ Then I see ipod dating and wonder what blog they’ve been reading, because they are certainly missing one the main ideas covered on SvN almost daily.

Anonymous Coward 25 Apr 06

And now there’s a random banner at the top! Nice!

Anonymous Coward 25 Apr 06

This is the type of job posting that annoys me:

Can you design something like this? http://www.fluxiom.com/ You must understand what Web 2.0 is all about and what’s possible with Ajax technology. You must also be proficient in XHTML/CSS. If you want to be part of a very exciting project with huge potential, please forward your resume as well as some references.

Someone has a _grand_ idea of a project, and they probably do not have much knowledge of the actual work involved in creating the project. I know it’s possible to accomplish, but someone please tell me who is designing something *close* to fluxiom?

I hate to make this type of post, and I do not want to bring any negative attention to 37s latest project, but I have to ask.

spo 25 Apr 06

AC- jealous much? don’t read the blog if you don’t like what they do. are they not free to make money? did you pay them for an ad-free experience? this stuff kills me.

spo 25 Apr 06

My comment was to the AC two posts up… not you, second AC. :)

Brandon Eley 25 Apr 06

Nice!!

You guys are not only experts on making money, but you’re also great at coming up with genuinely good ideas. A large % of your readership is comprised of developers and entrepreneurs, so this makes complete sense.

I would happily spend $250 to post a job here considering the responses it would get. If you can’t afford that to post the job, you probably can’t afford to hire quality talent anyway.

John Ratcliffe-Lee 25 Apr 06

Right off the bat, there are great opportunities from some quality organizations: NYTimes.com, CNET Networks, etc.

This is definitely a valuable resource for any party involved. Failure is a great motivation tool, as well as the success of others. Even if you don’t have what it takes as an organization or a job-seeker, this board is a prime example of what it takes to rise to the top. I think this is more of a career-advancement motivator than the majority of job-focused web sites out there (to me, at least).

Di-dee-a 25 Apr 06

Can you design something like this? http://www.fluxiom.com/ You must understand what Web 2.0 is all about and what’s possible with Ajax technology. You must also be proficient in XHTML/CSS. If you want to be part of a very exciting project with huge potential, please forward your resume as well as some references.

I’m much more disturbed that someone has $250 to burn on such a vapid excuse for a job posting.

jetrac 25 Apr 06

What defines “quality” in “talent” is likely completely subjective. Many organizations do incredibly difficult and important work and don’t have $250 to spare on job listings. And the type of technologists and designers who care enough about these causes to take these jobs for less $ than the “quality talent” that’s out to make as much $ as possible, well, they’re the real quality talent.

Seth 25 Apr 06

JF - planning to open source that payment library?

For everyone else, check out payment.rubyforge.org if you’re looking for something to integrate with rails.

I’m using it on Substruct and it works well with Auth.net

http://dev.subimage.com/projects/substruct/

nsidney 25 Apr 06

“Why would they let freelancers post for free and clog the system with every mini jedi-master of rails begging for a job?”

They wouldn’t have to post for free… the pricing structure could be the same, just the opposite (i.e. a freelancer advertising him/herself for the *same* price). That way the posts would be held to a higher standard… because if your not a very good designer/programmer, you probably couldn’t afford to post on the Job Board anyways ;-)

Andrew Hollister 25 Apr 06

nice idea, i like it a lot.

i also like how there is a company that sounds like they are creating a basecamp competitor.

Thomas 25 Apr 06

I know this has already been mentioned but it’s worth talking about some more.

From the TOS for The Deck “The Deck ad is the only ad on the page.”

http://coudal.com/deck/

Then you read at the top of 37svn.com “XYZ is looking for a Design Intern.”

37svn.com really does seem to be breaking the TOS for The Deck.

To me, displaying that company XYZ has a job listing at the top of 37svn certainly seems like an advertisement to me. Because you are ADVERTISING that company XYZ has a job posting.

Now, if it simply said something like “check out all the new job posting at job board”, that would certainly not seem like an ad but more so promoting the service.

Just my 2 cents.

Anyone else feel the same way?

Dharmesh Shah 25 Apr 06

I have to (grudingly) admit, this is a great idea.

Even startups like me will likely not be able to resist the temptation to have some access to the 37s readership talent pool.

Doug 25 Apr 06

@Thomas - I completely agree with what you wrote about violating the Terms of Use for The Deck.

Also, people forget about http://jobs.rubynow.com/

Alan De Keyrel 25 Apr 06

Andrew-

“i also like how there is a company that sounds like they are creating a basecamp competitor.”

I assume you’re talking about our job post for GroupLoop.com. I’d disagree that this is a BaseCamp competitor. We use BaseCamp for our own internal project tracking and we love it (it’s a precise tool for project management). GroupLoop will be taylored specifically to collaboration among non-profit groups and Board of Directors. It will be missing much of the things a BaseCamp user would need for project management (like milestones).

Keep up the great work 37s.

JF 25 Apr 06

Violating the Deck would be putting Google Adwords, Blogads, Adbrite or some other ad network selling 3rd party products and services. Those ads would compete with the Deck ads and that wouldn’t be permitted.

Lindsey 25 Apr 06

Gosh, I didn’t know I was “some of the best and brightest web minds around.” I’m going to my boss right now and saying, “I read Signal vs. Noise! All day long! Why am I not getting paid more?!”

Thomas 25 Apr 06

@JF

Those ads would compete with the Deck ads and that wouldn’t be permitted.

Not to start an agrument, but what happens if Monster.com wanted to advertise on The Deck.

Would that then make the Job Board in competition with The Deck then?

Thomas

Randy 25 Apr 06

[JF]

Violating the Deck would be putting Google Adwords, Blogads, Adbrite or some other ad network selling 3rd party products and services.

What you are implying is that The Deck will be the only paid service advertisement mechanism on the site. However, the Terms of Service of The Deck are not that specific.

http://coudal.com/deck/

The Terms of Service states:

“And there won’t be Google or other ads diluting your exposure. The Deck ad is the only ad on the page.”.

Those “other ads” could be read as to include the Job Board since the Terms of Services does not specifically differentiate between AdWords (and the likes) and such advertisement that Job Board does.

Please don’t get defensive on this topic, I think people are just trying to give you a heads-up on what some of The Deck sponspors might start to ask.

Matt 25 Apr 06

How is linking to a service on your website an ad? I think that if the deck has a problem they would let 37signlas know… its not really anyone elses concern.

DHH 25 Apr 06

We don’t consider the job board “other ads” that would dilute The Deck. There are no competing products or services being offered.

But if you’re thinking about advertising on The Deck and you don’t agree, or are in other ways troubled, you’re of course ever so free to take your money elsewhere.

Just as you’re free to take your money elsewhere if you considered the links to the Getting Real book or any of the applications “other ads”.

FredS 25 Apr 06

One (hyphenated) word: Rent-a-coder. Though, I guess if you’re the New York Times, you want a guy with a CS degree from Michigan State and a portfolio.

Matt 26 Apr 06

At $0.50 per character, this comment on the job board would be worth $61.50. Thankfully the comments section is still free.

ML 26 Apr 06

Please don’t get defensive on this topic, I think people are just trying to give you a heads-up on what some of The Deck sponspors might start to ask.

Thanks for the heads-up. We’ll stay alert to this potential development.

Nick 26 Apr 06

I’m guessing that Job Board is probably the fastest making revenue source to date for 37signals.

In less than 1 day, they have already made $3500 (14*$250).

Coudal 26 Apr 06

I certainly don’t think that the job board in any way violates what we’re trying to do with The Deck. The network is made up of individual sites, many of which run their own businesses and we never for a moment meant to imply that participation in The Deck would limit a member site’s ability to promote their own stuff.

I see the job board in the same light as I see our own Jewelboxing or The Show or ALA’s conferences or Gruber’s tees or The Morning News’ Tourney of Books.


Ed 26 Apr 06

Can you update your feed so that the location comes across as part of the message, I’m not seeing that when only reading the RSS feed. Thanks

nsidney 26 Apr 06

Why would anyone *care* about the TOS of The Deck and what 37s does with their site, they don’t even advertise on it? You’re not adding value.

If you actually advertise on The Deck and you sell job board spaces too, then you may have something to ask about ;-)

Scott Brooks 26 Apr 06

What has 37s done to make everyone mad?

Why is it everytime you guys bring in some money everyone gets their calculators out and starts doing the math?

Just before we jump on them too much for making some money i just pulled some numbers and thought i would share them.

Recently we were looking for some people. here is what it was going to cost me.

monster.com - 2 week -100 mile search - $ 595/usd
workopolis.ca - single job across canada - $650/CAD
Osepryjobs.ca- (newspaper chain) - 30days $299/CAD

So is 250 usd a bad price …..actually it is too cheap .

And like i said earlier ….great pool of people.

Good job guys ….

cheers

Scott

Eddie 26 Apr 06

I never thought I would see 37signals, job, and Rochester MN all related to each other.

Alan 26 Apr 06

What has 37s done to make everyone mad?

Why is it everytime you guys bring in some money everyone gets their calculators out and starts doing the math?

I think a lot of it’s the tone that 37 Signals chooses in their weblog posts/advertising. There’s an undercurrent of arrogance and elitism in their branding, and that can rankle people.

Take their most famous slogan and business philosophy, “Getting Real”. The implicit statement there is if you’re not doing business like 37 Signals, you’re not real, and if you’re not real, you’re wrong.

This being “The Interents”, rankled people feel it’s their right to take the piss out of whatever rankles them, rather than ignoring it and moving on.

I’m not saying that the 37 Signals guys are a bunch of arrogant unjustifiably elitist pricks who think their way is the only way. It’s just their branding and advertising makes them appear that way, which will draw out the trolls any day of the week.

Jeff 26 Apr 06

http://37signals.com/04.html

Just a tad hypocritical, I think.

Franky 26 Apr 06

For those crying about the cost- Would you want to work for someone who can’t swing $250 for a job ad? Would that mean you’re left hoping for a $249 annual raise after you get hired? Give me a break!

DHH 26 Apr 06

Jeff, you may notice that this point is from the original 37signals manifesto launched in 1999. Back then, 37signals was exactly that.

Since then, the company has transformed into a product company that doesn’t even really do consulting anymore.

The original manifesto is around for its historical value, not because it necessarily reflect today’s positions or motivations (though many of the points still do).

Baeck 26 Apr 06

What has 37s done to make everyone mad?

They haven’t done anything. This constant stream of criticism is what happens when you do anything publicly and successfully in the US these days: people take it the wrong way and get their shorts in a wad.

If you don’t value the content on this site, here’s an idea: Stop coming here and go live a happier life!

… rant off …

Gayle 26 Apr 06

Speaking of The Deck, I just noticed Macromedia/Adobe has joined. Wow. Great job, guys!

jetrac 26 Apr 06

I work for an organization that cannot swing $250 for a job ad and I’m proud of it and the work I do.

Jonathan Snook 26 Apr 06

For those who quibble that $250 is a lot to pay for a job ad, I would add that the time involved to sift through hundreds of (often unqualified) applicants takes time. This looks to be a very cost-effective way to reach a target audience. Just like The Deck.

I’m impressed that 37s has managed to generate revenue in the most unexpected ways.

Chad Sakonchick 26 Apr 06

Signals, I wouldn’t fret at everyone attacking the terms and conditions of the Deck. Everyone is simply jealous that every time we turn around, ya’ll have found yet another way to make gobs and gobs of cash. I don’t think anyone realizes that ya’ll didn’t become media darlings overnight. Keep on keepin on.

Benjamin Reece 26 Apr 06

I think it is an awesome idea- it really meets the needs of it’s target audience.

*Note:*

NY times, CNET might have gotten a free/cheap ride to boost the reputation of this effort.

At least that is what I would do!

pentzel 26 Apr 06

stop! y’all are only making more rocket fuel!!

nice move… smart too

JF 26 Apr 06

Take their most famous slogan and business philosophy, “Getting Real”. The implicit statement there is if you’re not doing business like 37 Signals, you’re not real, and if you’re not real, you’re wrong.

Someone isn’t paying attention. For the 1001th time (it’s even mentioned in the introduction to the book), we don’t think anyone else is wrong. We’re just offering our way of doing things. This is what works for us and we’re here to share it because we think it can help others. Take whatever value you find and leave the rest behind.

pentzel 26 Apr 06

Have you ever considered making SvN subscription based. You could finally turn the time spent on this blog into money. I don’t believe you would forever go unchallenged, but it would remove a lot of the noise I find distracting. Sure people have a right to respond, maybe they can do it on their own time on their own blog. I get a lot from this site, but a lot of people come here solely to bash.

$12/month… seems reasonable to me.

Des Traynor 26 Apr 06

For the love of God.
———-37S release a product blah ——————-

37Signals: Here is how we made money doing Blah!

The Haters: My God, That’s so fucking expensive. You are all rip off merchants.

Hater #864: 37Signals is soo arrogant. They think their way is the only way to build web applications

37Signals: But, but , we said 4,300 times, it’s the way that works for us, we even put a disclaimer in our book
——————————————————————


I’d love it if you guys would turn the arrogance up a notch or two for a while, just to get rid of the whiners. Take a leaf out of maddoxs book (or a line from his page)
This page is about me and why everything I like is great. If you disagree with anything you find on this page, you are wrong.

How about:
Getting Real is the only way to do anything in the world ever. If you disagree, you are not only wrong , you are also legally retarded. Please never come near Chicago, we will shoot on sight.

I’ve been reading this site for about a month now, and I have never seen one message be misconstrued so often, and complained about so regularly.

martin 27 Apr 06

Pentzel… that’s not a bad idea. I would make this blog available to everyone to read, but the privilege of commenting could/should be paid for.

A few dollars might enough to separate us who are more interested in the discussion here then those who just flame or are hung up on the “arrogance” and just don’t get it…

Dan Boland 27 Apr 06

Have you ever considered making SvN subscription based. You could finally turn the time spent on this blog into money. I don’t believe you would forever go unchallenged, but it would remove a lot of the noise I find distracting. Sure people have a right to respond, maybe they can do it on their own time on their own blog. I get a lot from this site, but a lot of people come here solely to bash.

$12/month… seems reasonable to me.

Sounds more like a blog cock-block instead.

JF 27 Apr 06

No plans to make SvN pay at this time.

jetrac 28 Apr 06

there are people who would pay $12/month for the privilege of posting on the blog of a company that’s using it’s blog to sell you it’s services in the first place?

Sebhelyesfarku 28 Apr 06

Sure, masses need leaders, whatever they are.

Jeff Croft 01 May 06

I know I’m public enemy number one here at SvN, so to avoid this being miscontrewed by certain folks who can be very defensive of their egos, I’ll try to be very, very clear and to the point:

I think this is a smart and novel way to monetize your publication while providing additional value to SvN readers.

I anxiously await the comments from those of you who will call that “37hating.”

sham 04 May 06

neat!

month/day for when the job was posted would be valuable information since i can’t exactly tell how the jobs are sorted (location, description, posted by, posted when).

also, when you are on the list of “design” jobs, and you click to see all jobs, you only see the jobs/1 page, which doesn’t include all jobs.

Test 20 Jun 06

Need Rails project manager to set up team. Must be willing to avoid paying for ads and willing to abuse blogs and message boards like this one.

IAN I 20 Jul 06

Get anything and everything you need on iPods, iPod car kits, iPod accesories, etc. This is the complete resource for iPods and iPod accessories.

Rugby Fan Steve 25 Aug 06

Rugby players spend a lot of time physical training Compared to other form of sports.I have read the
Rugby laws mentioned on this site. It’s a gripping sport which targets the grip strength and the active mindedness of a player. American football and rugby league are also primarily collision sports, but their tackles tend to terminate much more quickly. For professional rugby, players are often chosen on the basis of their size and apparent strength and they develop the skill and power over the passage of time. In modern rugby considerable attention is given to fitness and aerobic conditioning as well as basic weight training.

Rugby Fan Steve 25 Aug 06

Rugby players spend a lot of time physical training Compared to other form of sports.I have read the
Rugby laws mentioned on this site. It’s a gripping sport which targets the grip strength and the active mindedness of a player. American football and rugby league are also primarily collision sports, but their tackles tend to terminate much more quickly. For professional rugby, players are often chosen on the basis of their size and apparent strength and they develop the skill and power over the passage of time. In modern rugby considerable attention is given to fitness and aerobic conditioning as well as basic weight training.

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