17 Dec 2002 | f5 said...

Personally, I really don't care whether or not the server gives me candy directly, indirectly, twice, or otherwise. But then again, I've never broken down my tipping habits to the tenth of a percent to see if my subconscious really cares or not. I believe that the change I have on hand, and how easy it is for me to round up my tip for the sake of ease, has much greater influence over whether or not I'm tipping an extra .5%.

Anther factor that weighs in more than sweets-distribution would have to be the quality of service. My girlfriend and I once shared the bill with another couple who miscommunicated with each other about who had and who hadn't already included tip with their cash they just laid on the tab. The service and food that night wasn't horrible, but it was definitely sub-par. No one intended to short-change our waiter, but when it happened accidentally, he chased us out the door holding the tab and money, raised his voice and said, "Was it really THAT BAD you guys!?" (we did the math later: he got 9%). One of our group replied, "Well it is now...". Our waiter proceeded to tell us to 'fuck off' and stormed back into the restaurant.

I think cursing your patrons on a busy sidewalk counts for at least -2.3%.

That page you linked to JF asks "why we tip" and answers with something along the lines of "we tip out of guilt" in most cases. I don't know about folks on this list, but I grew up understanding that most servers are underpaid and overtaxed because of tipping, and that 10% at the very least should really be mandatory. It does touch on that a few pages later, but I wonder how many people are aware of this?

17 Dec 2002 | steve said...

MR. PINK
You know what this is? It's the world's smallest violin playing just for the waitresses.

MR. WHITE
You don't have any idea what you're talking about. These people bust their ass. This is a hard job.

MR. PINK
So's working at McDonald's, but you don't feel the need to tip them, do you? Why not? They're servin ya food. But no, society says don't tip these guys over here, but tip these guys over here. That's bullshit.

MR. WHITE
Waitressing is the number one occupation for female noncollege graduates in this country. It's the one job basically any woman can get and make a living on. The reason is because of their tips.

MR. PINK
(pauses) Fuck all that.

(They all laugh.)
MR. BROWN
Jesus Christ!

MR. PINK
Hey, I'm very sorry that the government taxes their tips. That's fucked up. That ain't my fault. It would appear that waitresses are just one of the many groups the government fucks in the ass on a regular basis. You show me a paper says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it. Put it to a vote, I'll vote for it. But what I won't do is play ball. And this non-college bullshit you're giving me, I got two words for that: "Learn to fuckin type." Cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent, you're in for a big fuckin' surprise.

More here.

17 Dec 2002 | peck said...

Gee thanks, it's not like none of us has seen that movie.

17 Dec 2002 | Don Schenck said...

I tip 20 percent.

17 Dec 2002 | Chris said...

I tip what I think it is worth. If I get good service they get 10-15%, and great service 20-25%. If I get bad service it is a dollar or nothing. I'm speaking about food here folks.

17 Dec 2002 | f5 said...

I tip 20 percent.

I do too, Don. But I never tip exactly 20 percent...especially when I'm paying and tipping with cash, and it has nothing to do with mints. It seems like the article was trying to split hairs when a lot of it boils down to tipping an even amount out of convenience.

17 Dec 2002 | Nathan said...

Hey SvN guys, is there a standard way to append "Warning: the following link spawns seizure inducing pop-unders" to a link?

17 Dec 2002 | SU said...

Hey SvN guys, is there a standard way to append "Warning: the following link spawns seizure inducing pop-unders" to a link?

If only the proper TITLE tags were automatically applied... Have you tried Mozilla, Chimera, or Phoenix? All of these browsers block pop-up and pop-under adverts with aplomb.

18 Dec 2002 | Don Schenck said...

Twenty percent.

Unless it's bad; then, I leave 25 cents and I go and tell them, to their face, "I'm leaving you a very poor tip for very poor service."

When I'm nice, I'm nice. When I'm tough, I'm a bitch.

18 Dec 2002 | David Wertheimer said...

Hell, I round up if I get a tasty chocolate at the end of a meal....

18 Dec 2002 | Bobby said...

Bouncing back and forth between North America and Japan over the last few years I can't stress how much better the situation is in the East. There is no tipping in Japan, the staff are almost always polite and quick, and the customer never finds himself in a position to deal with guilt in exchange for lousy service. It's fine for those of us who say we don't care or that can easily leave little or no tip but the fact is some people don't like it.

I can't understand why restaurant owners allow this to continue. Is it good business to put that kind of friction between your staff and your customers? Pay them more and don't allow tipping. If people can't deal with being friendly and smiley all day long then they shouldn't be serving food to begin with.

18 Dec 2002 | indi said...

Why would restaurant owners ever increase servers' pay to account for lack of tips? I can't see it happening. It's too ingrained in our culture.

Personally I will leave 15% for decent service and 20% or more for great service. I won't penalize the server for bad food, especially since they usually go out of their way to compensate when you actually have to send something back. Fortunately it's been a long time since I've had abyssmally bad service. I think a lot of it has to do with customer attitude going in.

BTW Steve, I have never seen Reservoir Dogs, so I appreciated the dialog :-)

18 Dec 2002 | alisha said...

Bobby, you ever waited tables? Believe me, when youve already worked a 6-8 hour non-stop rush and theres still a line out the door, the last thing you feel like being is smiley and nice. But the tips keep you human and its a good thing because waiting tables is pressure and concentration - if you work in a place that hops, that is. I have your same situation here in Germany, except fot the fact that most service sucks. Why should they care? Theyre getting the same amount whether they give you good service or not. Youre just lucky you landed in the land of smiles - the Japanese are known for being polite and kind. But I do think 20% is too steep.

As for all the people feeling sorry for waiters/waitresses, they get almost always 15%, (now its 20%-in my day it was 15%) and much more when service is exceptionally good. And by law you only have to claim 8% on your taxes. It was a good deal.

Oh, another tip is to check to see how many tables your waitress has (or ask her how many she has) before you rage on her for bad service. Sometimes shitty management is the problem. (4-5 is the max for fine restaurants and 5-7 tables is the max for eat-and-go places.)

18 Dec 2002 | Keir said...

I live in London and what I find is happening more often is that the tip is now added to your bill so you don't even get the option to choose how much you leave. If you don't leave the "suggested" 12.5% you feel like you are being tight but quite often the service is pretty poor. I still get surprised by really good service but is on the increase, the UK lags behind countries like the US and France in my opinion.

I agree with those who said that you tend to tip what change you have in your pocket. One thing I never do is add the "gratuity" to the credit card slip as I am convinced the servers never see it.

18 Dec 2002 | Bobby said...

You get what you pay for eh. In this case, if who ever manages the restaurant pays the servers a little better they might be motivated to put on a happy face. If you remove the reliance on tips just to make the job livable you also remove a lot of the stress.

It shouldn't be the customers responsibility to ensure good service through tips. It should be on the managers to make sure the customers have the best experience possible. Pay em more and keep the good ones. It may be tough but the bad ones should probably be let go.

I realize it may not be realistic to compare Japan to the rest of the world in regards to service but there is a bit of truth to it. I think one of the reasons that the Japanese haven't developed the same bitter, me versus the world attitude is because they don't have that situation to deal with.

Maybe my experience here is unique. I've waited tables in both North America (Vancouver) and Japan (Kyoto).

19 Dec 2002 | said...

Post Removed by 37Censor

19 Dec 2002 | Dave said...

Im with Don. Usually 20% for good service 10%+some for terrible, and a little note on the tab thanking them for good service (never a note for bad). I have had wait staff comment to me that the little "thank you" was really nice...

20 Dec 2002 | alisha said...

"I think one of the reasons that the Japanese haven't developed the same bitter, me versus the world attitude is because they don't have that situation to deal with."

Then whats Germanys excuse? They put New Yorkers to shame in the unfriendly game. They have no shimmer of what service is and theyre paid VERY WELL. Its all mentality. In America and Canada, people behind the cashier are also polite and friendly and theyre making minimum. Dont get me wrong, I no longer notice the German attitude as much and underneath it all, people are the same. But as an American, I was amazed at how opinionated and unfriendly Germans were in the beginning. (can you tell Ive adopted some of thier habits? ;-))

"If you remove the reliance on tips just to make the job livable you also remove a lot of the stress."

as long as you live in a "friendly" country.

23 Dec 2002 | Steve said...

Alisha, I don't think you can attribute the service levels in Germany just to the fact that the custom is such that there isn't much tipping. Part of the service issue is simply due to the fact that, as a whole, German culture isn't as outwardly friendly, especially compared to Americans.

That, and I did detect some big regional differences when I lived there. In Munich, which is where I lived, I found service generally to be pretty good, and being on a per diem the entire time I lived there, I ate out a lot. Beers were usually kept full, orders were usually taken pretty promptly, dirty dishes didn't sit on the table long. And I wasn't eating at the Bayerischer Hof every night. These were just average neighborhood places. But on the whole, I found the Muenchners to be a rather friendly lot all around.

(One thing that did strike me as odd is that the service and attentiveness seemed to go way downhill once I was ready to get my check and pay. You'd think that the moment where you're wanting to give them money would be when they're least attentive.)

However, when I ventured up to Duesseldorf or Koeln, service was a great deal more slow and, at times, a bit surly. Switzerland was the same way. And the Austrians seemed to be especially irritable, particularly in Vienna. I can't recall what part of Germany you're in (and, naturally, I know full well Austria and Switzerland are different places than Germany, but the culture's very similar), but I would guess that regional differences could play a big part.

24 Dec 2002 | alisha said...

yea i know what you mean Steve, but thats exactly what I was saying above. Its not only about about pay - its about mentality too. I suspect Munich simply caters more to tourism because they live off it - Koeln and Ddorf dont have much tourism at all. The Swiss and Austrians are very unfriendly on the whole, but it could be that they just think Im German because my husband is. Everyone pretty much hates the germans over here.

18 Oct 2003 | tallbabydoll said...

To all those who "don't believe in tipping," or don't tip because you asked for no mushrooms and it had mushrooms in it, or one of many excuses people use not to tip, let me explain something to you. This is how things are in the restaurant in which I work. I am paid $2.65 an hour. I will never get a raise, unless the waitressing minimum wage increases. To make the math easy lets say your tab comes to $100.00. Even if you leave me no tip I have to claim 10% of my sales to the IRS, which in this example means I have to tell the IRS you tipped me $10.00 weither you did or not. (And if I claim less than 10% my employer changes it to 10% to avoid being audited.) And I pay 25% in taxes so that's $2.50 I pay in taxes on that $100.00 tab, (now remember I pay this even if you leave me nothing.) Then I "tip out" the bartender !% of my sales, even if no liquor is ordered. SO thats another $1.00 I pay out. Last I have to "tip out" the busser 1.5% of my sales (even if I bus it and he doesnt touch it! He can even be at home at my resturant, but if he worked during that shift I have to tip 1.5% of the shifts sales.) thats another $1.50. SO it costs me $5.00 no matter what to wait on a table that has a tab of $100.00

With that being said, now maybe some will understand why 10% isn't a "good" tip, in my restaurant, If you left me $10.00 on $100.00. I only get $5.00 of it. Now factor the service I provide you, and all the little extras you dont see being the customer. The waitress does her best (in most cases) to be friendly, prompt and efficient. We want you to be happy and enjoy your visit, with the very real knowledge that if your not, we will literally pay for it

Let me tell you a couple brief stories. I had a customer who ordered a meal for her and her son. We serve a free appetiser, and have free refills. Well about ten minutes after I served their meals she tells me that her son filled up on the appetiser and she didn't want to pay for his food. I asked her if anything was wrong with his meal, if he liked it okay. She snapped at me, "It's fine, he's just full." So I told the manager. He went and talked with her, telling her that she would still have to pay for the food. She paid the bill, and left no tip. I gave her excellent service, so why no tip, her allowing her son to "fill up" was not my fault.

I was waiting on this couple and they asked me about our sampler platter, because the gentlemen is deathly allergic to seafood. I assured her that it contained no seafood. Again when I served it she asked again, saying she smelled seafood. I told her what was in each dish. Well one item looks very much like an egg roll, you cant see the contents. Well luckily the woman bit into one first because the cooks put a different item which is seafood in place of what was supposed to go with the dish. ( After me going back and telling them to double check. I wanted to be sure this mistake didn't take place. This couple were my parents.) My point of telling you this story is just because your order comes out wrong, it's probably not your waitresses fault. We do go the extra mile to make sure you are happy. But the cooks who get paid the same amount no matter what, really could care less.

20 Nov 2003 | cigna insurance said...

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16 Jan 2004 | Faustinus said...

For example, if you see an AIM window peeking out from behind your browser and you click on it, that window will come to the front, but the main application window will not. The Mail.app/Activity Viewer is another example. The Aqua system of layers works well in many instances, but not in all. Thank goodness that the Dock is always there to come to the rescue. I know that clicking on an application icon in the Dock will always result in not only the application coming to the front, but also any non-minimized windows associated with it. And if the application is active but no windows are open, clicking on the Dock icon should create a new window in that application.