19 Jan 2003 | p8 said...

Is 37Signals redesigning a gas station?
;)

19 Jan 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Center, in the back.

Aside from that ... passenger side.

Oh; ever notice that your gas gauge with either have an arrow pointing to the correct side for your car, *or*, the little pump icon will have the hose on the right or left as the tank is on the right or left side of your car.

19 Jan 2003 | Scott S. said...

Maybe this is sort of stupid from an engineering standpoint, but why can't you have one on each side of the car? I always hate it when I pull into a station and I have to wait - or akwardly turn my car around - until I'm facing the right way. Maybe longer hoses are the answer.

19 Jan 2003 | Fish Sauce said...

I worked three years at a full-service gas station (we still have those in Canada), and I can say this:

When the tank access is in rear centre of the vehicle, it wears out much more quickly, and after just a couple of years becomes much harder to access, open and use (they're most often made of steel back there, and they rust, get damaged, and many times I wouldn't touch them without gloves for fear of being cut and getting tetanous [sp?]). It is the second worse location that I encountered (the worst was on the driver's side, at head level just behind the door--it was in a small industrial truck, and it had a tendency to spit gas; I once got a mouthful because I was standing too close).

As to driver's side/passenger's side, I think the point about opening the driver's door is a good one, but also I think it relates to standard driving practices and the flow of traffic. You don't drive on the left hand side of the road, you don't park on the left hand side of the road, why would you pull into a gas station and park next to the pump on the left? It doesn't agree with the standard behaviour of traffic in North America.

As for hose length: those hoses are insanely expensive. We had to replace one of them at the station I worked at, and it cost hundreds of dollars (they're made from a special mixture of rubber, cloth, and woven steel, among other things). Length=dollars. Also, the longer they are the more slack they have, and the more space they take up. The last thing you want, both for reasons of safety and for reasons of equipment longevity, is some jackass running over your hose all the time.

19 Jan 2003 | paul said...

i like any car that has a little arrow symbol beside the gas gauge on the car so i *know* what side it'll be on. isn't a big deal on a car you own, but if you rent a lot, it sure comes in handy.

19 Jan 2003 | Jesper said...

37BetterBenzine.

One on each side would be nice.

19 Jan 2003 | Jesper said...

"The last thing you want, both for reasons of safety and for reasons of equipment longevity, is some jackass running over your hose all the time."

I snicker, because I have a dirty mind.

19 Jan 2003 | David Gmez-Rosado said...

The most "usable" solution will be to have a "gas" tank access in NEITHER side ... But an "electric" charger in the front. :-)

19 Jan 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Hey Fish Sauce ... GREAT feedback from the "Real World". Thanks!

19 Jan 2003 | ry rivard said...

Isn't gas a bit passe`?

19 Jan 2003 | ~bc said...

I once heard that German cars (don't know if they're the only ones who used this logic) had the gas tank on the passenger side so that if you ran out of fuel on the side of the road, and had to fill it up (especially at night), placing the tank on the passenger side keeps you off the road so you're not clipped by a passing vehicle. Fill location as a safety feature?

19 Jan 2003 | pw said...

~bc brings up the German's designing for safety. Interesting for us in Australia, Britain, Japan and a few other places by virtue of driving on the left side we end up totally the opposite. I can say that having it on the drivers side here does make getting out of the card harder as often you are right up to the pump.

19 Jan 2003 | dan said...

My parents had a Plymouth Colt wagon with a sliding side door. You couldn't get out of the back if you were filling up because the door would bump into the gas nozzle. There was a sticker to tell you that, but still it was a terrible design.

20 Jan 2003 | Tom Smith said...

Mine is on the left which is opposite the driver side. Most UK cars seem to have it on the right on the same side as the driver.

The best side to have the petrol hole is the opposite to the most popular side, whatever that is.

This is so that when you pull up to the pumps (at the supermarket where there is only one entrance) there is more likelihood that there will be a free pump, because most people can't be bothered with the hassle of getting the pump round to the other side.

It works for me.

20 Jan 2003 | Boz said...

Drivers side is more usable because it's right there when you step out. There is usually no reason to pull in so close you can't open your door.

20 Jan 2003 | Steve said...

Drivers side. Makes it easy to get out and get the job done without walking to the other side of the car.

For some reason, it seems that the U.S. automakers put it on the passenger side and the Japanese put it on the driver's side (from a North American driving perspective).

Of course maybe that's just the fact that both car industries prefer the gas tank on the opposite side of the driver considering the Japanese drive on the left (I think).

20 Jan 2003 | Urbanchords said...

You know that you should think about mass transit more, and not about automobiles. Are automobiles very inefficient design altogether? If they weren't so heavily subsidized, would you still drive?

20 Jan 2003 | brian said...

the tank on the passenger side makes most sense as you would be driving on the right side, so you would pull in normally, and then the tank would be on the imaginary curb side. what difference does 4 feet (walking around to opposite side) make when you are considering the fact it is less inconveniant than driving in an akward traffic pattern to get to the car's driver side next to the pump..

I also agree that the safety issue makes alot more sense in respect to filling up on the highway. It would be interesting to find out the marketing dept's way of promoting this "feature" of passenger side gas tanks.

20 Jan 2003 | Toby said...

Each of the three cars I've owned had the tank on a different side. So, as per my experience, driver's side works best. Passenger's side was most annoying, since I'd have to hop around the car to fill up. And the rear was the worse, since it was difficult to get to (being lower), harder to reach with the nozzle, and caused a (possibly irrational) fear of being immolated after a rear-end collision.

What I don't get is people who don't pull up far enough. The average pump is, what, 4 feet wide? Surely, you pull up far enough so as not to smack your door into the side of the pump. I drive an old Corolla -- a tiny little thing -- and I've never had a problem.

20 Jan 2003 | Steve said...

The engineering reason you don't have filler doors on both sides of the car is that the tank usually needs to be on the opposite side of the car as the exhaust system, and therefore also the filler tube. For cars with a single exhaust, the filler is almost universally on the opposite side of the vehicle than the exhaust pipe and muffler. And, of course, it's more expensive and somewhat more complex to have fillers on both sides.

For dual exhausts, I'm not sure how the engineering differs. If I remember right, the tank either sits in the middle rather to one side, or the main exhaust line runs around the tank before splitting behind it. With the latter configuration, the same rule of having the filler and tank on side still holds.

As for what's more usable, I don't think any side is inherently more usable (although I'm fond of the front fender filler door in the Boxster). What is usable is some sort of icon on the fuel gauge telling you what side the stupid thing's on. I've had way too many rental cars without that and ended up pulling in the wrong way.

20 Jan 2003 | Hagbard Celine said...

My Jeep (ostensibly American made) has the filler on the driver's side. I like it that way, and my driving skills are accurate enough that I can avoid banging the door into the pump or the concrete pillars.

Now if they would put squeegees at both ends of each island instead of one in the middle, I wouldn't have to walk around the car or climb over the hose to wash my windshield.

Anything is better than the original VW bugs with the filler under the front trunk lid.

20 Jan 2003 | Benjy said...

My German-designed Jetta has the gas filler on the passenger side. I guess it makes sense in regards to allowing for normal flow of traffic and for safety, but damn it's a pain when I forget to pop the gas filler door button and have to go back. Was a lot easier when I drove a Japanese car with the filler on the driver side.

20 Jan 2003 | Tilted said...

My Benzes have the filler doors on the passenger side, and no release is necessary as long as the car is unlocked. "Forgetting" and having to lug my fat ass back to pop it was never an issue. The inside of the door even has a nice metal holder for the gas cap, and tire pressure guidelines too.

I also have two Ford Crown PIs, and their filler doors are on the driver's side. It's a huge car, and the doors tend to swing wide. The curbs at pumps are sometimes a pain in the ass, and I've bumped or scraped the bottom of the door on the massive concrete curbs more than once.

So let's see, 7 extra footsteps per fillup (9 calories burnt) to $200 in paint work. I'll take the 7 extra footsteps. =)

20 Jan 2003 | pb said...

Passenger side is way better so you don't have to worry about banging your door. How people can complain about an extra few steps is beyond me.

21 Jan 2003 | Martin said...

Longer, retractable hoses solves the whole problem.

21 Jan 2003 | pb said...

What's the problem?

21 Jan 2003 | ek said...

It's not really a problem. I'm just curious to hear which gas tank filler configuration (left, right, center, or other) people think is better.

Until just recently I drove a car that had the filler cap on the passenger side. My current car has it on the driver's side. With the memory of using both fresh in my mind I'd have to say that I prefer having it on the driver's side. Seems to be a bit more convenient, esp. during the streak of bitter cold that we're going through now here in Chicago.

22 Jan 2003 | jess said...

the question I'm more intersted in: can we design the gas pump island so that it easily accomodates driver/passenger/rear gas pumping. My local 7-11 gas pumps seem well designed for any of those (no huge curbs, plenty of driving eye-level cues for pulling up, long hoses with spring-loaded retractor lines holding them up so they don't get run over....

Also seems there is a better sales pitch for redesigning islands than working with car manufacturers (competitive advantage for the gas station with good design, smaller audience to convince for wider impact, etc.)

ps I prefer my gas pumped on the driver's side.

22 Jan 2003 | kristoff said...

Walking four meters to fill up on gas shouldn't be an argument ;)
I have to say that the real usability lies in indicating how to open the damn thing.
Most rentals (if not all) I came across had me reading through the manual just to find the button that would pop the little hatch.

22 Jan 2003 | JF said...

I'm kind of surprised that no one has developed a "self-sealing" cap that doesn't require you to unscrew anything. Just push the pump through and when you pull it out it seals/closes up automatically. Some sort of spring-loaded valve kinda thing.

22 Jan 2003 | kristoff said...

And have some clown throw sugar in it? I'll pass :D

22 Jan 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Jason, there IS such a cap sold. I've seen it. As far as someone dumping sugar in it ... you just have it "lock" when the car is locked. Simple enough. My SAAB's central locking system is a good example.

God I love my SAAB.

25 Jan 2003 | Richard Tilley said...

Interesting thread.
I don't get the "traffic flow" argument for the filler on the passenger side. Suppose I'm approaching a gas station. There is one island. I drive in and park on my side of the "divided" road. This is North America. Pump is on my side, where I like the filler to be.
I always park on the short side unless the only vacancies are on the wrong side, and a U-turn is not reasonable. In 40 years driving, I have never seen a hose that didn't reach across. Where are all these poorly endowed pumps?

26 Feb 2003 | agent said...

I have two cars with L & R sides now, and have owned over 45 thru the years. Had them L, R, F, R, and the middle of both bonnet & boot... I would say that opposite the driver is the correct 'feeling' position for a filler - as is the cap holder in the door if there is one, or a place to put it where not forgotten - a cap that fits the handle for lockless pumps is a plus... The height should be considered, many small cars have too low a filler, some beasts too high. Next to the drivers head, as old trucks, is about the worst. What an odd subject to "use-obsess" about - i'd do shopping carts.

08 Aug 2003 | Dynast said...

I definitely prefer the tank to be on the driver-side. In fact, I won't even buy a car with the tank on the passenger side. Why should I have to walk all the way around the car to fill my tank? Also... if you forget to close the lid.. you'd be more likely to notice on the driver-side. It's also harder for someone to steal your gas if you're parked on the street and access to the tank is in the middle of the street. I just don't see any use for it being on the passenger-side. Just don't park so close to the pump that you can't open your door... I've never had a problem with that.

13 Jan 2004 | nokia said...

Mein Hobby ist es Gästebücher zu besuchen. Das ist immer ganz interessant und widerspiegelt so, was die Leute im Internet wirklich denken. War auch interessant bei Dir ! Bis zum nächsten Mal. All The Best OfNew Year. Sorry for my english i'am from Germany.

16 Jan 2004 | Manasses said...

For example, if you see an AIM window peeking out from behind your browser and you click on it, that window will come to the front, but the main application window will not. The Mail.app/Activity Viewer is another example. The Aqua system of layers works well in many instances, but not in all. Thank goodness that the Dock is always there to come to the rescue. I know that clicking on an application icon in the Dock will always result in not only the application coming to the front, but also any non-minimized windows associated with it. And if the application is active but no windows are open, clicking on the Dock icon should create a new window in that application.