21 Apr 2003 | pblunt said...

That's for delivery? Although I tip in the 15-20% range at a restaurant, the delivery guy gets about a buck or so. I actually considered that generous...I used to deliver pizza and 8 times out of 10 ended up with a tip of 40 cents or nothing at all.

$3.41 tip seems excessive considering all the guy is doing is driving your $17 meal from one place to another.

So what's the verdict? Has delivery tipping increased 300% in the ten years or so since I delivered my last pepperoni, or is this excessive?

21 Apr 2003 | JF said...

That's for delivery?

It's just the standard credit card slip that is used for delivery and in-restaurant charges. It's meant for the normal, sit-down tip, not for delivery. It's the idea that I liked.

21 Apr 2003 | pblunt said...

Agreed, the idea is great. Putting it on delivery slips is a bit misleading though.

21 Apr 2003 | fajalar said...

I am all for taking cognitive load away from users (don't we all have enough to think about anyway?). That said, shouldn't people be able to do simple arithmetic like this?

It may make the receipt "easier to use," but it seems more like an opportunity to make it "easier to sell." The three choice may (for some people) seem like required radio buttons. "The service was crap, but it looks like I have to pick one."

And while you may think that wouldn't happen, I bet it would.

21 Apr 2003 | JF said...

That said, shouldn't people be able to do simple arithmetic like this?

Yes, they should. Can they? Usually not. Just watch people.

21 Apr 2003 | MrAnonymous said...

I usually tip high (around 20%) but if it takes too long to figure out, I'll just approximate and may tip lower. This is an awesome idea and I agree that tips may go up because of it.

21 Apr 2003 | cheapGuy said...

from the restaurant's standpoint, it makes perfect sense. from a customer's standpoint, not so much because it appears that tip amounts are based off the cost of food plus the tax. so i'm actually better off just calculating myself since i shouldn't be tipping on tax anyway.

anyone else tip only on the cost of goods and not the tax?

21 Apr 2003 | MrAnonymous said...

I tip on the total, tax included. I guess I never think about it.

21 Apr 2003 | pblunt said...

I used to tip on total, but have been advised that if you're going on percentages than it should be calculcated off the pre-tax amount.

I also find it interesting that the three options are 15%, 18%, 20%. Who knows anyone that tips 18%? From my experience the options are generally 10, 15, 20...with ten being reserved for below average service, fifteen for average service, and twenty for good service.

By upping the numbers on the slip they are creating a new standard range...over time people will forget that 10% used to even be an option.

Funny how that process works...someone initates a behaviour and it gets adopted. Like who decided you tip the valet but not the hostess? If you introduce the changes slowly enough, people don't notice.

21 Apr 2003 | JF said...

See the Curb Your Enthusiam episode where Larry didn't tip the "Captain?" Great stuff.

21 Apr 2003 | pb said...

"By upping the numbers on the slip they are creating a new standard range"

Uhmm....yeah?!

21 Apr 2003 | TheChillPill said...

Personally (speaking as a Brit here) I would be offended by such a receipt. It basically says to me "I expect a tip". In my view, that's not what tips are for at all - you tip if you feel the person deserves the tip, not because it makes you look 'cheap' for not tipping.

Also, I would say it's fairly typical here for the tip to amount to the difference between the cost of the goods/services and the value of the note being used - for example, of the goods came to 8.99 and you paid using a 10 note, you would typically offer a tip of 1.01. Very rarely would a tip be given if paying by credit card. Indeed, in many bars & restaurants here the staff are not allowed to accept tips at all.

21 Apr 2003 | mal said...

Speaking as another Brit, in the UK, I'd also be offended if I got a receipt like that. In the US, however, it wouldn't really bother me and I'd probably have the same reaction as JF. Different cultures just do things differently.

As an aside, I'm still not sure which system I favour. Relying on tips strikes me as a really cheap (read: lame) way of improving a restaurant's profit margins by allowing reduced staff wages. However, it also encourages good service and, where it's part of the culture to tip, probably results in similar take-home pay. Expecting a tip regardless of the quality of goods or service is, however, a bit much IMHO.

As for the usability stuff, the percentages are helpful, but rather sly (in upping the stakes). I admire the cunning of whoever thought it up. ;)

21 Apr 2003 | fajalar said...

Yes, they should. Can they? Usually not. Just watch people.

Part of me still holds the belief (regardless of how much I have seen users struggle with things) that there are some things that should be left up to the user to learn to do.

I know I shouldn't equate intuition with not thinking, but it just seems like everything these days is running down the path of, "Here are your predetermined choices." It doesn't allow for the moment of denouement that seems to be missing in peoples lives. Though, perhaps that moment is when the book arrives on your doorstep as expected.

Eh, waxing philisophical. I guess life is becoming too much like pressing a lever to receive a food pellet. ;)

21 Apr 2003 | hurley#1 said...

Part of me still holds the belief (regardless of how much I have seen users struggle with things) that there are some things that should be left up to the user to learn to do.

I've learned to do it, sort of, but even after a couple of decades of practice I'm still not very quick at it. Maybe it's due to a bout of math anxiety that I had when I was in primary school, but I've never been able to do math in my head with any degree of confidence. I also can't blow bubbles with bubblegum, roll my r's, or dance a waltz. We all have our handicaps, and the inability to simple math in one's head is a common one, probably more common since the advent of hand-held calculators.

21 Apr 2003 | Jonathan said...

If you can't move a decimal point one space to the left and double it how did you ever get the money you have to tip in the first place?

People need to learn some quick math tricks, like rounding and multiplication.

21 Apr 2003 | Chris said...

Has anybody ever not tipped a waiter at a restaurant because the food or service was bad? I've been tempted on several occasions.

One time I was at a popular diner that is currently running a 50s era campaign and starts with the letter D. Anyways, I ordered a Grasshopper milkshake (mint ice cream people). The waiter said "Ewwwwww" and my friend and I looked at each other and then we looked at the waiter and said "why" and she said "Oh, it's fine, I just don't like that flavor"

Of course, we ordered vanilla.

I don't know if she got a tip, it wasn't much I'm sure.

Chris

21 Apr 2003 | Chris said...

Oh, one more thing: how many people on this list do not tip the owners of an establishment when they are the ones providing the service? I think this is more common for barbers and such.

21 Apr 2003 | scott said...

I used to deliver pizza and 8 times out of 10 ended up with a tip of 40 cents or nothing at all.

But just because it was done to you, should you perpetuate it? I used to deliver and when you compare driving your food to walking it from the kitchen to the table and getting paid less for it, plus wear and tear on your car delivery should be tipped at least what servers are tipped.

21 Apr 2003 | Steve said...

Scattered comments:

I've seen receipts like this off-and-on for a few years. I think it's a good idea. I can do the math in my head, but I appreciate someone doing it for me.

Delivery drivers shouldn't be tipped the same as servers, I think. For one, I have - or should have - several interactions with my server during the course of the meal, whereas I have one with the driver. Not to mention that the delivery charge usually goes straight to the driver, so it's not like they're making the delivery on spec.

I have had occasions where something was so bad where I tipped nothing or very, very little. In those cases I've asked to speak to the manager and told them exactly why I was doing that; simply leaving a short tip isn't going to get the message across that something was wrong. You just get chalked up as cheap. And if it's a food quality or timliness issue, I'm not going to punish the server for something the kitchen did. I've been known to tip the server more if they handle the situation with grace.

22 Apr 2003 | bubbalicious said...

This is a terrible idea. I'm also offended by the practice of adding the percentage line. I delivered pizza for 5 years. In that time, I'm sure a few customers couldn't properly add -- but most people tipped 15% or so.

I think it makes the store look bad. Like they might have had a number of customers who can't do the math. It's like I'm too dumb to figure out how much 15% is.

If I normally were inclined to tip 30%, I would automatically penalize the server by tipping less than 15% for this bill.

But that's just me.

22 Apr 2003 | hurley#1 said...

If you can't move a decimal point one space to the left and double it how did you ever get the money you have to tip in the first place?

Uh, what's a decimal point? ;-)

Seriously, that's the technique I've always used when I want to give a 20 percent tip, but when I'd rather give the minimum 15 percent I always end up taking more time to do the math in my head. (I know, just move the decimal point one space to the left, divide by 2 and add that to the resulting amount, but I need a pencil and paper to do that; it takes too long for me to work it out in my head even if it's ridiculously simple.)

It's not like I can't do math...I was a science major in college so I've had a few years of calculus, advanced statistics, etc., and I do a fair amount of number-crunching in my work. It's just that I have trouble doing even simple math in my head. And from my experience, there are a lot of people out there like me.

22 Apr 2003 | p8 said...

Wouldn't it be a better solution to give examples of rounded totals?

Like:
$20 = 17% tip,
$20,50 = 20% tip
$21 = 23% tip

This way people don't have to add up the amount and the tip, plus it's much easier paying $20 than finding change for $19.65.
And because the percentages change people don't feel forced to pay at least 15, 18 or 20%. Don't most people tip by letting the delivery boy keep the change anyway?

22 Apr 2003 | Michael S. said...

I arrive at tips by figuring $1.50 for every $10 I spend. This is easier than moving decimals, multiplying and subtracting, etc. So if the bill is $23, I just think $3 for the first $20, and about a third of that ($.50) for the rest, so a $3.50 tip, usually rounded up to $4 if the service was decent.

But I do like the guide on the receipt as a reference point. In that situation, with okay service, I would round it to $3.

22 Apr 2003 | David Wertheimer said...

I generally overtip my deliverymen. Better to keep them happy, since I order from the same places and they are carrying my food on a moped in city traffic.

Who knows anyone that tips 18%?

Here in New York standard practice is to double the 8.25% tax and round up. That often leads to tips of 17-18%.

Suggested tips are good for the masses, mildly repugnant for brighter and savvier individuals; but then, we're in the minority, and waiters get screwed on tips far too often.

22 Apr 2003 | Darrel said...

anyone else tip only on the cost of goods and not the tax?

I'm still confused as to why the price of the food has any correlation to the tip. The 16 year old behind the counter at McD's selling $.99 burgers may be working as hard as the waiter and Snooty McDuffs where a burger costs $18.

Then there's all the hard working staff that aren't tipped (bus boys, dishwashers, cooks, etc.) Yes, they are then supposed to be sharing tips from the pool. However, when they do that, then there is no correlation between the amount any one of them earns in tips and the quality of their service. As such, it's then just a ploy to pay people low wages.

When I was in Scotland, I found it much more relaxing/easy to not having to worry about tipping. Yes, the food was a bit more expensive. Yes, you often had to go to the bar to order yourself. Fair trade, IMHO.

22 Apr 2003 | B said...

So, Darrel, then how do you tip?

22 Apr 2003 | Darrel said...

Oh...as for tipping Pizza delivery...I can't say they deserve a tip anymore than the post delivery person, or the garbage person, or what have you. Driving isn't a terribly difficult skill set.

I say charge for delivery and give that money to the delivery people.

22 Apr 2003 | fajalar said...

The place where I get my hair cut has a prominent sign that states, instead of tipping us, refer someone to us.

They actually refuse tips. Politely of course.

I agree with Darrel. Include a delivery charge and pass a portion of that on to the delivery person (on top of their wages). The downside is that tips are often not claimed as income, which I see as a benefit to those who rely on tips to live.

When I did work behind a counter, the best tippers were cabbies and waiters. The worst tippers... very, very rich people. Course, that might be how they stay rich.

22 Apr 2003 | Nerdy Mc-Writes-A-Lot said...

Some thoughts:

I usually tip my barber $2-3 on a $10 haircut. I get good barber cuts. Almost as good, in fact, as my $50 (not including the $8 tip) cuts from a salon.

---

In a lot of other countries, especially Asian countries, it is NOT customary to tip. In fact, the tip is usually a few dollars (umm.... you can translate it) if the service is VERY excellent.

It's interesting having a Malaysian spouse and watching her pay the bill (that is, until she got used to the idea that waiters are paid nothing) because she forgot to tip all the time.

----

One last thing:

What do folks think about tips that go directly into the main "pool" i.e. when you tip on your CC?

I prefer to leave cash because I know at least my particular waitfolk will be getting it.

-j

22 Apr 2003 | scottmt said...

one of the coolest things i've ever seen.

22 Apr 2003 | Don Schenck said...

I usually hand the tip directly to the server and say "Here, this is for you".

If it's very bad, I leave 25 cents on the table and tell the server, "I'm leaving a bad tip because your service was bad".

That said, I *very* seldom get bad service. Then again, I don't go to many French restaurants.

KIDDING

22 Apr 2003 | JF said...

How does everyone handle tipping at a buffet?

22 Apr 2003 | Steve said...

I've never quite figured out how to tip at a buffet. If it's one where I'm getting my own drink and everything, and the only interaction I had was someone removing my dirty plates, I may not tip at all. If someone gets me my drink, etc., I'll do $1 or $2.

22 Apr 2003 | David Harrell said...

I don't see a problem here--the percentages are only there as a reference, it's not as if you have to select one of them.

Actually, what I'd love to have on restaurant bills is an "amount for each person in the party" for the various tip levels. It'd make things much easier when a large group is splitting the bill. Sometimes it seems like the time it takes to divvy up the bill is inversely correlated with the collective IQ of the group...

22 Apr 2003 | David Harrell said...

oops--make that positively correlated...

23 Apr 2003 | TheChillPill said...

What I can't get to grips with here is that people *still* tip even after having bad service, albeit a small tip. Personally, If the service was bad I would expect a discount on the bill, never mind giving tips.

Strangely, the British are fairly reserved at 'kicking up a fuss' and we usually accept what we get, except in circumstances like these. The Amercians however have the opposite reputation, yet they all seem to leave tips for bad service?

23 Apr 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Chill -- leaving a tiny tip is a good idea. If you leave none, "Oh, they forgot to leave a tip".

If you leave a tiny tip (25 cents), it's "Twenty five cents!? What kind of tip is that?".

:-)

23 Apr 2003 | TheChillPill said...

Good point Don, I hadn't thought of it in that context ;-)

23 Apr 2003 | dave said...

I know people who wait for a living. They don't make very much money. Personally, I find leaving a small tip, and in addition telling them why you are leaving a small tip rather insulting. When was the last time you had a bad day at work & your boss told you he didn't like your service, so you are only making $0.25??

I usually cut the wait staff some slack, and if the service is real bad (and by bad I mean things like getting the wrong dish, etc*) I usually talk to the manager.

That said, I always at a minimum leave a note on the tab thanking the staff for the service. (on the flip side, commenting directly to the staff about good service is not something I personally would do.)

* In my worst case ever, I found a Swedish Fish candy in a pizza I had ordered, at a more expensive Italian place. I called the manager over & had the situation rectified. Why would the wait staff need to be punished? Talking to the manager usually clears up any issues & saves personal embarrasment for the staff.

23 Apr 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Dave --

Agreed. I don't confuse a poorly-managed restaurant with a poor-attitude server. That is the only thing in my mind that merits a poor tip.

And as far as it being insulting; too bad. By that point, *I* have been insulted, and they're asking for it.

E.g. Service takes too long -- not the server's fault for the place being understaffed (remember, my wife is a "retired"-at-age-43 chef, so I know all about that).

Server is arrogant, unkind, uncaring? Here's your quarter.

23 Apr 2003 | Steve said...

I can't think of a time where I have or would tell the server that they suck. That's something management needs to know about, and management is the only one who can do anything about it. Whenever I've had issues with the server, or that the server cannot resolve, I ask to speak to the manager.

Just leaving a reduced tip without telling someone why isn't going to lead to improved service. The server is not going to think "Oh, I must not have been doing a very good job." They're going to think "God, what a cheapass."

23 Apr 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Steve, my idea is that I tell the server where they failed (in my opinion), so they can "get their act together" without getting, perhaps, in trouble from a power-hungry manager.

My take. Your mileage may vary.

Again, only happened two or three times.

24 Apr 2003 | hurley#1 said...

Conflict avoiders can leave a brief note with the tip, telling the waiter or waitress what they did wrong and why the tip was reduced. I've done that a few times when I didn't have the energy or inclination to confront the waiter directly, or when the restaurant was really busy and I didn't want to hold up an already harried waiter.

My father was brutal with wait staff, which meant that everyone in my family dreaded going out to eat with him. He once called over a waitress and told her, loudly enough so everyone nearby could hear, that she wasn't very good at her job. Constructive and educational criticism, eh? It was an awkward moment, and all of us at the table tried to pretend we didn't know him. I followed her back to the kitchen to apologize. But he ended up leaving her an enormous tip, something like 50 percent; I guess he felt sorry for her. Ick.

24 Apr 2003 | Jennifer said...

I like this idea. I hate math!

Of late, virtually every tipping thread I've seen on the Internet has NO people who admit to tipping so "low" as 10 or even 15 percent. Seriously, everyone always brags about how they not only tip 20, but usually tip 30, or 50, or hell, just empty their entire wallet out for the poor, poor server, who will be screwed on taxes if you don't give them a fat tip even if they sucked. *sigh* I find this hard to believe somehow that EVERYONE does it.

Not everyone's always going to complain to the management. The few times I've actually wanted to, the manager was nowhere in sight, plus the servers had been so damn slow, rude, and late that I HAD to leave right away because I'd be late for work, not take ten minutes out to complain. I filled out a comment card once, but you know where THAT ended up.

And really, a server should have SOME kind of clue as to whether or not they are giving good service as to be able to figure out why their tip was so low. If you actively avoid making eye contact with me, refuse to answer questions, make no apologies for anything, and have to be asked five times where the food is/where the doggie bag I asked for fifteen minutes ago is and can't figure out why you got no tip, you are a total moron. If you didn't act like that and got a low/no tip, THAT's cheap.

24 Apr 2003 | sarah said...

i like this idea. it is a good idea to have a tip reminder on pre-authorized credit card payments anyway, since a lot of people just sign them and leave the total blank. servers could fill in whatever tip they wanted and no one would be the wiser.

conveniently, the tax where i live totals 15% so i usually tip based on that. delivery people get the option of monetary tip or a cd from the "i want to get rid of this but i missed the window of popularity and now no second-hand shops will buy it back" pile. most of them go for a cd, even if they don't recognize any of them. win-win!

24 Apr 2003 | alisha said...

Chill -- leaving a tiny tip is a good idea. If you leave none, "Oh, they forgot to leave a tip".
---
I once chased two guys down the street for not tipping. turns out they were foreigners. they asked how much they still owed me and I said 17% since I had to run all that way to catch them. :-) they tipped 20%.

Waiters only have to claim 8% of thier total sales - the rest is black, so they do just fine. I cant beleive its gone up to 20%! Thats too much if you ask me.

24 Apr 2003 | Tami said...

Dontcha just wish that restaurant owners would just pay their damn waitstaff what they are worth and not rely on us to decide what it is?

That being said, I never figure up an exact tip. If the bill totals around $20, I'll leave around four bucks. *shrug*

25 Apr 2003 | RA said...

I guess I think it's tacky! Tips should be based on quality of service, NOT on what your bill was! I won't leave a tip if the service wasn't good! I've also been known to leave a rather large tip for people who had to wait on us when we were with peole who were being difficult, as long as they are polite, and helpful, and NOT rude, they deserve a tip...
It shouldn't be assumed that you are going to get one!

25 Apr 2003 | Don Schenck said...

My wife and I had dinner one night, the bill was $300, and the tip was $60.

That's not a bad take for the server!

02 May 2003 | Chris said...

I think I'm more irrittated at eating establishments that you go up to a counter and order your food and are given a number. Then you go get your food. They put the same thing on the receipt. Why should I tip the person taking my order? It doesn't seem any different from Burger King and who the hell tips there?

04 Nov 2003 | Osoyoos said...

17 Jan 2004 | Thomasina said...

For example, if you see an AIM window peeking out from behind your browser and you click on it, that window will come to the front, but the main application window will not. The Mail.app/Activity Viewer is another example. The Aqua system of layers works well in many instances, but not in all. Thank goodness that the Dock is always there to come to the rescue. I know that clicking on an application icon in the Dock will always result in not only the application coming to the front, but also any non-minimized windows associated with it. And if the application is active but no windows are open, clicking on the Dock icon should create a new window in that application.