22 Apr 2003 | JF said...

I'm a compulsive downshifter. In fact, it's one of the main reasons why I've always driven a manual transmission car. The manual downshift is so satisfying. I have to admit, though... The next car I get (2005 Audi S4) has an option for tiptronic F1-style paddle shifters behind the wheel... I'll test drive... I might make the switch.

22 Apr 2003 | Brian said...

Downshifting's just part of driving well, in my opinion. I ride a motorcycle (Suzuki SV650) and you simply have no choice but to downshift with a motorcycle (the gearbox is sequential; you can't go from first to third without visiting second). The torquey v-twin in my bike has lots of engine braking, so if you don't match revs (or slooooowly ease the clutch back out) you'll slide the rear wheel.

My wife's got an '02 Jetta with the 1.8T engine and a 5-speed. I like to drive it fairly hard, but I find matching the revs kind of difficult on a downshift. The engine revs fairly slow (and the spacing between the gears seems kind of wide); just blipping the throttle doesn't do much. You've pretty much gotta floor the pedal and not let the clutch out too quickly to do it well.

There's a school of thought that (aside from the clutch) you're not adding any additional wear by downshifting because you're using the "other side" of the gears (drivetrain components). The wheels are now driving the engine instead of the other way around. This is assuming, of course, that you're not downshifting to get back into the powerband.

If by "guy thing" you mean "performance driver thing", then yes. :-)

22 Apr 2003 | yuckmouth said...

I have been doing it for the 130k miles on my car, no transmission problems to speak of...

It's all a matter when you downshift and from what I understand, newer cars have lock outs where it will not slip into a lower gear unless it is safe.

22 Apr 2003 | matt said...

I always figured usability buffs would all drive automatics.

22 Apr 2003 | MegoSteve said...

I always downshift. and I've had my car since 1995 and never replaced the clutch. Go figure.

22 Apr 2003 | alg0rithm said...

Living in New England, it is pretty much a given that if you drive a standard and want to survive the winters, you must learn to downshift. Safty first!

22 Apr 2003 | malross said...

By downshifting, you mean blipping the throttle on a downshift, right? Can't say I bother, myself. I'm not skilled enough to do it quickly and would prefer to just let the clutch take the pain.

If, on the other hand, you mean do I downshift while braking as opposed to just braking and doing a block gear change, then yes, I do. Doesn't everyone? If on a charge, it's essential to keep the engine in the power band.

22 Apr 2003 | malross said...

matt said:

I always figured usability buffs would all drive automatics.

An auto box may be more usable, but it provides a poorer overall user experience. :)

22 Apr 2003 | Steven Garrity said...

Before I ended up in my current automatic, I was all about the downshifting. Newer used 1st gear and never used brakes.

22 Apr 2003 | fajalar said...

I always figured usability buffs would all drive automatics.

manual = user in control (assuming the user learns to drive a manual). :)

I used to shift without the clutch sometimes. Definitely have to be paying attention to do it. Doesn't work as well on my 98 Golf. I am in the habit now of shifting to 3rd, taking my foot off the gas, and slowing down that way. Then I put it in neutral and use the brake to stop.

I rarely downshift anymore, but then I am also not in stop and go traffic.

22 Apr 2003 | hurley#1 said...

I'm a downshifter too, and drove my Honda Civic for 250,000 miles with only one clutch replacement, which didn't happen until after about 8 or 9 years of driving.

Anyone remember double-clutching? I had a 1969 Series IIa Land-Rover that had synchromesh only between 3rd and 4th gears, which meant you had to double-clutch between 1st and second, and second and third, but not between third and fourth.

22 Apr 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Fajalar -- I *look* for opportunities to shift! On the highway, if I'm cruising at 60 (mph) and decide to pass, I downshift into third gear and get the RPM's up to about 4,000, then wind it to the redline.

Hmmmm ... I wonder ... where do we draw the line between "I drive it enthusiastically" and "he beats that poor thing"?

22 Apr 2003 | malross said...

Then I put it in neutral and use the brake to stop.

Gah! Putting the car in neutral while moving's not a good idea. If you suddenly need to get out of trouble (say, you spot a truck braking too late behind you), it'll take longer to get back on the gas and out of the way. Better to stay in gear (one appropriate for your speed) and stay in control.

22 Apr 2003 | malross said...

Hmmmm ... I wonder ... where do we draw the line between "I drive it enthusiastically" and "he beats that poor thing"?

Cmon, Don, you know the answer to that. Cars, especially sportier models, are designed to take sustained hard driving these days. Keep the enthusiasm. :)

Besides, what's warranty for anyway? ;)

22 Apr 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Malross - agreed, although last week's crash really took the wind out of my sails. I'm driving very gingerly now.

But I run around the yard with abandon, if that counts *smile*.

22 Apr 2003 | malross said...

D'oh! Sorry, Don - that was a tad insensitive/forgetful of me. :(

22 Apr 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Malross, not at all insensitive, seriously. The world doesn't stop just because my nephew's gone.

You're right: Keep the enthusiasm. Just keep the car under your control *smile*

22 Apr 2003 | max cohen said...

Has anyone lost a clutch from not down shifting? I was surprised that NPR's Car Talk Guys said down shifting wasn't necessary.

22 Apr 2003 | Jesper said...

I love downshifting, especially as I can't brake too smooth yet.

22 Apr 2003 | Darrel said...

I used to downshift the ol' 2 tonner's in the army, but never have done it in my Civic. Guess I'm lazy.

22 Apr 2003 | fajalar said...

Gah! Putting the car in neutral while moving's not a good idea.

When I do it I am at under 10mph, usually coming right up to the car in front of me or the light.

Hasn't been a problem so far... knock on... whatever this cube is made from.

22 Apr 2003 | ~bc said...

Don, with your Saab (sans turbo especially) to get a jolt of power you definitely need to downshift. The normally aspirated engine simply doesn't have an enormous power band. That said, a saab is a driver's car, so it's built to take the "abuse" That said, my 89 900 Turbo is on 256,000 mi. with no problems from "spirited driving." Of course, now that I've moved to the city, we've moved to only one car (the g/f's automatic Jetta) and I seriously miss the "Whooosh!" when downshifting to pass someone with the Turbo!

In other car-lovers news, Saab announced a new smaller sports car the other day (dubbed 9-2) which will be based upon Subaru's WRX, and built in Japan. This is my dream come true: my favorite mark (Saab) combining with my favorite model (WRX). All this just as we were considering starting to look for a hybrid vehicle for city life! Oh, the devil on my shoulder is laughing hardily now!

22 Apr 2003 | Nerdy Mc-Writes-A-Lot said...

Did you see the new DUAL-clutch Audis? I think it's debuting on the TT... no power loss while changing gears... and sequential F1-style auto clutching....

Mmmm....

22 Apr 2003 | Steve said...

I don't downshift to brake. That's what the brakes are for. Plus, I tend to brake somewhat late.

I do downshift when I need an extra acceleration boost or if I'm coming up on a light that I know is about to change my way or I otherwise need to slow down just some, not come to a stop or near stop.

I think the wear on the clutch and other components can be mitigated some by juicing the throttle a bit just before you go back in gear. That way the engine's already turning at near the speed it will be in that moment that the wheels dictate its speed rather than the other way around.

Regardless, there's no way I'll drive a car with an automatic. Maybe one of the paddle-type ones, but I havne't had a chance to test one of those yet. Just the floor-mounted triptronics, which is like kissing your sister.

22 Apr 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Oh yeah, go ahead ~bc, rub it in! *grin*

I got the NA because it was less expensive and *theoretically* less to maintain. But man, do I want a turbo. SAAB turbos are legendary.

Oh, and I'm surprised at you. It IS SAAB (all caps), you know *wink*

22 Apr 2003 | malross said...

Did you see the new DUAL-clutch Audis? I think it's debuting on the TT... no power loss while changing gears... and sequential F1-style auto clutching....

Indeed - it's on the 3.2-litre V6 TT and sounds seriously impressive. I wouldn't be surprised if all manual transmissions eventually went this way (unless it proves too expensive, of course). Zero chance of grinding cogs and you still get to choose your gear-change points for quick bursts of acceleration.

22 Apr 2003 | Don Schenck said...

The 0-100 (kilometers per hour) time is a bit disappointing: 6.4 seconds. My Spyder was near that. A $24,000 Spyder with a $3,500 turbo does it in 4.4 seconds.

Given the choice, however, I'd definitely choose the Porsche Boxster. :-)

22 Apr 2003 | Tomas said...

It's common practice in Sweden, Europe. Sorry ;-) Automatic transmissions are a lot more common in America compared to Europe, too.

23 Apr 2003 | alisha said...

What is it about a SAAB? Men are obsessed by them. The only time in 9 yrs my husband was ever jealous of another man was based on the fact that he had a SAAB. Ever since then hes wanted one.

And whats with Brits never downshifting? They drive in 4th, slow down to 20 mph and then hit the gas again without shifting - argh! (At least the "Jordie" did)

automatics are only popular in urban areas of Germany. The autobahn requires you to constantly speed up and slow down. And, like I always have to throw in Dons face, since we can drive however fast we want, manual is better. ;-)

23 Apr 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Alisha, I'm going to reveal a secret to you: it's common knowledge among men that SAAB owners are the best lovers.

So let your hubbie get a SAAB - he's earned it, I'm sure!

;)

23 Apr 2003 | alisha said...

oh, I get it. well then, shit howdy, Im out the door to get my hands on the nearest SAAB!

23 Apr 2003 | Paperhead said...

Just for Don

23 Apr 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Paperhead, either that picture is backwards, or those goofballs put the steering wheel on the *wrong* side!

*laugh*

Nice ... very nice.

Alisha: My SAAB was GIVEN to me ... yeah ... by ... uh ... Catherine Zeta-Jones ... yeah. ;-)

24 Apr 2003 | Tomas said...

Don Schenck: Uh, yeah, or it's Brittish...

24 Apr 2003 | alisha said...

whats this obsession with Catherine Zeta-Jones Don? I think you need the talk to DR. SU - hes very good at solving your obsessive love problems.

24 Apr 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Alisha -- CZ-J is gorgeous. Plus, she's not an ultra-thin, eat-Chicklets-for-lunch type; she's got *curves* :-)

Yeah baby ... yeah!

24 Apr 2003 | ~bc said...

Don, it gets complicated. Back in the day the Swedish Aeroplane Company (Svenska Aeroplan Aktiebologet) was the maker of fine aeronautical, military, industrial and automotive products. In the ninties, the car division broke off financially when GM invested in them, 50-50 with a Swedish partner. Technically, at that point the car company was separated from the part making airplanes, missles, Scania trucks, etc. Therefore at that point SAAB went from being an acronym to being simply a four letter name.

Now, as of a few years ago GM excercised an option and now own 100% of the car company. They have no vested interest in any of the other SAABs out there, that i know of (all of which still exist). I believe Scania was not part of the deal (hence the redesign of the logo, dropping the word "Scania" from the seal). The newer models don't have the name in all caps everywhere, I don't believe. Still, they rely on their traditions of drawing inspiration from the aeronautic division, although, and that's what makes them so unique. If GM keeps it up in the Ford tradition of letting great brands set their own course, and just helping in the financials (which pre-GM was plain ugly) SAAB/Saab is going to be quite the brand in the near future. Maybe soon I'll make enough to own one again (I haven't driven mine since last August, {sniffle}!).

BTW, I certainly did downshift to utilize engine braking, and I thing it's a good thing.

24 Apr 2003 | Don Schenck said...

~bc -- You, sir, are correct.

I stand corrected. Thank you!

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