09 May 2003 | fajalar said...

Having a radio and/or a travel plan should be required. You have to do it when flying and paddling/boating, why not hiking? Though itineraries are no help when you hurt yourself on day 1 of a 10 day trip.

Given the situation he found himself in however, he seems to have made the right choices.

I always let someone know where I am going and when I expect to be back. But then, I have never had a problem, so I don't know if my safety plans would kick into gear as I expect.

09 May 2003 | indi said...

I think you can do both. Chide him for being reckless, but praise him for his fortitude and courage in getting himself out of it alive.

Same thing with POWs. You take a wrong turn and get caught and busted up ... DOH! You tough it out and live to talk about it ... parade time!

09 May 2003 | kev said...

this same guy has been in like 2 avalanches already this year. he should have known to have communications or another person with him. but also, what he did was very courageous and brave. a lot of other people would have simply given in to dying.

09 May 2003 | scottmt said...

I think people should just take the situation for what it is. Don't feel good for him, don't feel bad for him, just take it in and think about it. He does not deserve praised, nor should people look down on him for not being "prepared" or having the "proper" accessories on hand.

One thing is for sure, talk about your spiritual experiences !!! "Waking visions", little sleep/food/water for 5 days .. this dude was tripping on stress. I wonder how he has been changed by this ordeal, and isn't *that* what's important?

I still haven't heard how the 800 pound rock came to rest on his arm ... ?

09 May 2003 | pb said...

How is this comparable to POWs?

09 May 2003 | alisha said...

I think people should just take the situation for what it is. Don't feel good for him, don't feel bad for him, just take it in and think about it. He does not deserve praised, nor should people look down on him for not being "prepared" or having the "proper" accessories on hand.
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totally agree.
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One thing is for sure, talk about your spiritual experiences !!! "Waking visions", little sleep/food/water for 5 days .. this dude was tripping on stress. I wonder how he has been changed by this ordeal, and isn't *that* what's important?
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totally agree!!!!
scottmt, you have insight.

10 May 2003 | indi said...

scottmt, alisha - OK, get some spiritual insight out of this ... what is life ... what does it mean to be alive ... at what cost, OK. But Don't feel good for him? Don't feel bad for him? Why would the abdication of natural human emotion make us more insightful? Empathy for others is part of what makes us human. We learn from our emotional responses to situations as well from our intellectual insights.

pb: I am comparing this situation to the POWs that took a wrong turn in Iraq and then got caught in an ambush. We don't celebrate their capture and you can bet their situation will be used in training as an example of what not to do, but we certainly are relieved and celebrate their heroism for surviving.

Similarly we won't congratulate this guy for getting into his predicament all alone without letting anyone know where he was going or when to expect him back, but we can certainly admire his fortitude and the courage it took to cut through his own flesh, and then when his knife wasn't up to the task of cutting through his bones, using leverage to break his radius and ulna one at a time at the wrist.

10 May 2003 | filchyboy said...

The guy is a stud. 99.9% of the folks I know could never have done what he did. Including myself. I'd like to think I could do the same but I fear I would have given up and died.

Mistakes happen. He should have left an itinerary. He knows that and paid the price. What you do with your mistakes is what reveals character.

He was climbing a slot canyon. 3 rocks which had fallen from above had been caught precariously by the sides of the canyon. He placed his weight in the wrong place and it shifted one of the boulders. It happens quite often. His hand was in the place where the rock shifted. These types of slot canyons catch boulders like this all the time. One rain, a strong gust of wind, a mouse, or pretty much anything which causes a weight shift can cause the whole thing to fall out of the catch. Or simply to move.

Chastising the guy for going alone is nonsense.

11 May 2003 | scottmt said...

indi, I was more trying to say "Dont judge him" than "don't get emotionally envolved." let your emotions run wild upon the idea of this climber. I do understand the courage it took to do this. it also took serious courage for the 9/11 hijackers to fly a plane into a building ....

12 May 2003 | alisha said...

indi, I just dont feel that the value in an experience should be based on "how much emotion did everyone feel?", but rather "what did everyone learn? how did it make them grow?". Of course we feel strong emotion when we hear stories like these - of course we feel compassion and sympathy. And thats exactly where it ends for most people. They dont really think about it again. No lesson learned - no insight gained.

12 May 2003 | hurley#1 said...

My feeling is that if you're going to go climbing alone, you have to be prepared to live with the consequences if you run into trouble. That's part of the deal. If you want to play it safe, you go with a partner or bring a radio or cellphone. If you don't, then you have to accept the risks.

If you understand the risks, then going out alone isn't stupid, reckless, or bold -- it's just a choice. If you have a family or a dog at home or someone else who depends on you, it's a selfish choice, but some people are selfish.

I've done a lot of solo camping and a few solo winter mountain climbs (no technical rock climbing, I'm not into it), and I personally wouldn't bring a cell phone or radio along if I were going solo. If I have an accident and end up dying, so what? That's a risk that I've accepted by not bringing a partner with me. I hate hearing people talking on cellphones and radios when I'm in a wilderness area, although I'm sure they save lives.

12 May 2003 | indi said...

alisha, scottmt, I think we're arguing the same point, albeit in slightly different terms. I agree it's important to take away some insight and learn from what happens to others, and ourselves for that matter. Our emotions are a natural component of that learning experience. They often make us notice things which can lead to further reflection, or shock us into non-complacency. I agree that many people will have an emotional response and then walk away having learned nothing. But if you have no emotional response you might not care to reflect on what happened either.

18 May 2003 | alisha said...

"But if you have no emotional response you might not care to reflect on what happened either."
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yea, thats true. I guess I just expect everyone will have an emotonal response and its sometimes hard to get past that point.

04 Nov 2003 | Osoyoos said...

06 Nov 2004 | mp3 said...

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31 Jan 2005 | compatelius said...

bocigalingus must be something funny.