02 Jul 2003 | sharpton2004 said...

I guess in order to wear that, you were also planning on sticking out like a sore thumb.

02 Jul 2003 | Steve said...

Beautiful.

02 Jul 2003 | DUFF said...

Lame.

02 Jul 2003 | Don Schenck said...

There's only ONE reason why you would have to wear that shirt: The people you are visiting are TOO STUPID to figure out that the average American does not necessarily agree with their government.

Quite a statement you're making about non-Americans there, eh? I wouldn't be so presumptuous.

02 Jul 2003 | Darrel said...

Gotta agree with Don there. Unlike a lot of Americans, most non-Americans understand that there is a difference between the citizen and the citizen's regime's foreign policies.

Plus, the shirt is rather ugly, is it not?

02 Jul 2003 | Sergio G. Senz said...

The Spanish translation is poor.

You are going to look like a "gringo" with very bad Spanish for most of the Americans, Americans in the meaning of habitants of the America Continent.

02 Jul 2003 | kev said...

sheesh. can no one tak a joke?

02 Jul 2003 | Paperhead said...

The new shirt:

"In a free society, diversity is not disorder. Debate is not strife. And dissent is not revolution." -- George W. Bush,

So, enlighten me, does this mean that all of that crap about "with us or against us" that was getting spouted a month or two back is over now?

//: OT aside

Hey Don,

Where is the dancing in the streets?
Where are all the WMD they were going to find?

I seem to remember you pretty much guaranteed those and I hate getting shortchanged.

02 Jul 2003 | EG said...

Real nice. So much for taking accountability and supporting your own country. Do you want the US to look bad in the eyes of the rest of the world? Perhaps you're playing for the wrong team.

Would you wear a t-shirt like that about your boss to work? Always easy to bitch from a distance...

Not your fault? Get involved more in government! I'm not involved much, but I don't make whiney comments. If you don't like it, go back to russia.

03 Jul 2003 | kev said...

ah.. so now this is mccarthy-era commie bashing! I get it now! wow.

03 Jul 2003 | Mark said...

EG said "Do you want the US to look bad in the eyes of the rest of the world?"

Too late.

03 Jul 2003 | Sharpton2004 said...

I wonder... would the same person wearing this shirt also put the "my kid is on the honor roll at so and so elementary" bumper sticker on their car...? Throw a SARS mask in there, and you are wearing the times.

03 Jul 2003 | said...

Liberia, here we come!

03 Jul 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Paperhead, there was *some* dancing in the streets, but NOT enough to meet my prediction.

I admit it ... I was wrong. WAY wrong. I've been asking "Where are the WMD's?" for weeks now. The administration is somehow getting a "pass" on this from the media and general public, but not from me. Kerry 2004.

I was sold a bill of good. I bought it. I was cheated.

Again; I admit I was wrong.

03 Jul 2003 | Don Schenck said...

haha ... BOTH my kids were #1 in their class! HA HA ... eat your heart out, bumper-sticker crowd!

(*snicker* they were home schooled)

03 Jul 2003 | p8 said...

I always thought these were pretty funny:
My kid beat up your honor student &
Your kid may be an honor student, but you're still an idiot!
Although I wouldn't put them on my car because Don would kick my ass ;)

03 Jul 2003 | Paperhead said...

Don,

Thank you for that. How's the gardening going?

***
EG said:

Get involved more in government! I'm not involved much, but I don't make whiney comments. If you don't like it, go back to russia.

Oh, where to start with you,

1. One can complain in public forums and be involved in government the two are not mutually exclusive.

2. Is anyone who complains automatically made a Russian citizen or do only Russians complain? Please clarify, I'm not sure which of these two idiotic statements it is that you're trying to imply.

3. What if I'm not from Russia? How do I go back if I've never been there?

4. I'll repeat the quote:

"In a free society, diversity is not disorder. Debate is not strife. And dissent is not revolution." -- George W. Bush.

So, do you not believe in a free society. Or are the freedoms of democracy that we are to enjoy solely to be determined by you?

5. Oh yeah . . . no pickle on the burger please.

03 Jul 2003 | Joe said...

Evidence of WMD were found. Iraqi scientists have come forward with millions of documents/plans/parts that were to be used in Iraq's chemical/biological/nuclear programs.

AND there was and still is immense happiness in IRAQ now that they are liberated.

I hate ignorant people.

03 Jul 2003 | p8 said...

Welcome self-hating Joe. You're part of a third of the public that is totally out of touch...

03 Jul 2003 | Hippy Hater said...

This is stupid. Anyone who didn't support the war and the efforts there is an idiot.

03 Jul 2003 | Stupid Hippy said...

Thanks for clearing that up, Hippy Hater. We all bow before your superior reasoning and immeasurable cognitive capabilities.

03 Jul 2003 | EG said...

craphead, er.. paperhead...

'go back to russia' was supposed to be a lighthearted end to my rant, but apparently the stick up your ass is longer than mine!

pretty ironic that you quote the president that's referred to as an 'idiot' in the t-shirt. does that automatically void his statement? check your own logic.

actually, this proves how useless these forums are because I think we actually agree, but you're touched off by my dumb Russia comment (via Homer)

03 Jul 2003 | EG's fiance said...

As recently as 1998 Clinton was dropping bombs on the Iraqi people in order to assure Saddam's compliance with the U.N. Clinton knew what Bush did...that Saddam had definite WMD aspirations...and Clinton too was ready for a premptive strike...but without the messy cleanup Bush is committing us too.

Even people in government circles who disagreed with Bush's pre-emptive strike agreed that if sanctions were dropped, Saddam would have WMD's relatively quickly (and probably would have gotten them even with sanctions, it just would have taken longer). People in the know just figured that we could use containment against Saddam and his WMD when he did get them, but that ultimately, WMD, especially nuclear weapons are DEFENSIVE weapons, not very good offensive weapons...and therefore not a threat. So from the peace camp the solution was 1) continued modified sanctions (whatever that means) and 2) CONTAINMENT.

Some thoughts...

Is "Containment" really working in N. Korea? We're sending 100,000 tons of food aide--is that out of the goodness of our hearts or because we're afraid that one maniac with his finger on the button could kill millions of people? WMD used for leverage are OFFENSIVE, don't you think?

The war was a horrible tradgedy.

BUT SO WERE SANCTIONS. Perhaps worse, they left the peole hungry and desperate and fed the spread of fanatical Islam. Sanctions pretty much assured that the infrastructure would crumble...but I'm sure what is worse is what they did to the spirit of the people. (And as mentioned earlier, weren't really assuring that WMD's would never be developed).

Anyway...

Ultimately, I don't KNOW if the war was the lesser of two evils. I think Mr. Bush was between a rock and hard place. I'd think twice about wearing a t-shirt denouncing him (even though I didn't vote for him).

04 Jul 2003 | p8 said...

"Do you want the US to look bad in the eyes of the rest of the world?"

Like a simple t-shirt could do the same thing as the war on Iraq or the boycotting of Kyoto and The Hague Tribunal.

There are more reasons to call Bush an idiot. The Budget Deficit Seen Soaring Above $400 Billion (check the graph, what year was Bush elected again?).
Even Carlyle founder David Rubenstein, recalling how useless Bush was as a board member of Carlyles firm Caterair, is surprised that George W. is now president.

Well, it could be worse, some people have Berlusconi as president.

"The war was a horrible tradgedy(sic)."

The war was only the beginning..

"In the first Gulf war in 1991, the Americans and British used 350 tonnes of depleted uranium. According to the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority, quoting an international study, 50 tonnes of DU, if inhaled or ingested, would cause 500,000 deaths. Most of the victims are civilians in southern Iraq. It is estimated that 2,000 tonnes were used during the latest attack." John Pilger

I could go on about the hospitals that don't have any supplies and don't know what to do with all the dead people. The lack of electricity, fresh water and security. The clusterbombs. Maybe a war in Liberia could divert attention from the mess in Iraq...

04 Jul 2003 | ym said...

"The lack of electricity, fresh water and security. The clusterbombs." Yeah, everything was so perfect before the Americans and Brits came.

04 Jul 2003 | p8 said...

"Yeah, everything was so perfect before the Americans and Brits came."

So you agree the war hasn't helped the Iraqis?

04 Jul 2003 | eg said...

"Even Carlyle founder David Rubenstein..."

-- good job citing those guys. They had no problem keeping bin Laden's investments...

http://slate.msn.com/id/2081572/

04 Jul 2003 | eg said...

better yet, p8... what would YOU recommend we do? these are complicated issues with many angles and affected parties.

hindsight is always 20/20 so solutions seem to be always so scarce. Maybe we should just do nothing.

04 Jul 2003 | ym said...

eg, then he would complain about nothing being done.

04 Jul 2003 | p8 said...

"-- good job citing those guys. They had no problem keeping bin Laden's investments..."

I know and both Carlyle and the Bin-Ladens are closely connected with the Bushes. Bush sr. works for Carlyle. Citing from the Bush inner-circle makes more impact than citing some anti-Bushie.
Here is a nice Carlyle documentary.

what would YOU recommend we do?
Well, for one not support people like Saddam and the presidents new best friend who boils people alive.
Other possibilities for Iraq could have been:
-Human Rights inspectors. We had weapons inspectors in Iraq, maybe we should have had UN human rights inspectors in Iraq.
-Doing nothing but using political pressure. Most dictators/regimes eventually collapse: the USSR, Iran, South-Africa, Chili... Now look at Afghanistan. As many as 20.000 people may have lost their lives, the regime of Hamid Karzai has virtually no authority and no money, and would collapse without American guns. Al-Qaeda has not been defeated, and the Taliban are re-emerging. Regardless of showcase improvements, the situation of women and children remains desperate. Was it worth it?
-Lifting the sanctions. The sanctions only strengtened Saddam and made the people of Iraq suffer hard.

08 Jul 2003 | p8 said...

If these stories about vote rigging are true the text on the T-shirts should be changed to "I'm sorry my president is an idiot. The votes were rigged."

A backdoor was discovered in the vote counting software. With a secret double vote table in Access, votes can be changed with out anyone noticing:
Scoop article
Salon article
Bigger Than Watergate!

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