11 Jul 2003 | Jordan said...

I am just glad I am not the only one bemoaning over the additions to the Lakers' squad. I think you pretty much summed it up with "..to get that token ring"; because, Payton and the Mailman won't be the ones bringing the rings back to to LA.

At least Scottie Pippen might go back to the Bulls where he belongs.

11 Jul 2003 | Brian said...

The trend has started already. Deion Sanders bounced from the 49'ers to Dallas. Ray Bourque left the Bruins to go to Colorado to win a Stanley Cup. Paul Kariya and Teemu Selanne just signed with Colorado and took pay cuts to have a shot at the cup. I see it becoming commonplace and I am surprised it has taken this long.

Loyalty from the players and owners side seems like a thing of the past. The ultimate goal for an athlete is the championship, or at least it should be. You could probably question that for some players who just want the big payday. Can we fault Ray Bourque, a 20-year player, who played for a team who didnt want to spend money on the team?

The other side is these guys have been to the finals and couldnt win why should they get to pick a team to win? The NBA has veteran minimum salaries, maybe they should place a rate on what the going value should be for certain players and say that is the minimum. If you were making 14 million one year you cannot make a million the next of course variables would come into play.

I guess I am really on the fence. I can see both sides but something needs to be done to prevent it. The NBA is a disaster in my opinion anyway and this isnt going to help.

11 Jul 2003 | bruno said...

Not sure i undertand what is wrong with wanting a championship ring more than money? Is that not the true glory of sports? Man, haters, bitch when they make too much money and bitch when they want a ring instead of money.
And the NCAA is worse. talk a bout pimping. At least the money is going to the players in the NBA as opposed to the atheletic and marketing departments of universities. I understand the players are supposedly getting an education but having had class with several future NBA players I saw first hand how they were treated when they did not complete assignments. Sorry to get off the subject.

11 Jul 2003 | Paul Scrivens said...

If I was in their position I would do the same thing. I am not giving them props for taking pay cuts because it was necessary, but I have no problem positioning themselves for the best chance to win the ring.

It's like working for a company for 10 years that is going no where and you simply want more out of your profession that they can't offer. Why shouldn't you go somewhere that helps you fulfill your goals?

But I agree that they shouldn't be commended for taking a paycut. Oh look Malone only gets $1.5 million this year....please.

11 Jul 2003 | Jeff said...

Let me first start out by saying I am not a Lakers fan at all, and felt a sense of satisfation at their downfall last year. Not only that, but the NBA as a whole is rotten and full of thugs, ingrates, criminals or kids with no fundamental skills. But wait a minute, here. Yes, both the Glove and the Mailman have seen their better days, but there's nothing "cheap" about what they are doing (joining the Lakers).

First off, Malone has busted his ass for the Jazz for nearly twenty years! He has really set the standard for hard work and commitment and anyone questioning his loyalty or work ethic of possibly the greatest power forward ever is just plain blind. The Jazz never surrounded Malone and Stockton with the talent to get them rings. No one should feel cheated that Malone wants a "token" ring. By the way, don't forget that Malone may have to give up his shot at Jabbar's scoring record, since he will be option 3 or 4 on the Lakers. The Jazz, however, have no one to blame for Malone leaving but themselves.

Both Payton and Malone are Hall-of-Famers. They could live to be 5,000 years old and never spend all the money they have (wait, they're NBA players, so make that a decade or two before they're homeless and eating out of garbage cans). This is what free agency is all about: for the players not to be "slaves" to whatever ownership's whims might be, and to make for themselves the best situations they can. Usually, this means lots of money. But teams have only so much money they can spend, and giving too much to too few is a recipe for disaster in most cases. If players want to demand huge money, anyone can tell them "no" if they think it's not a good deal. Players should also be able to have a say in where they want to play, then. Bottom line: what's wrong with wanting to win?

I also firmly believe that a lack of loyalty (or looking out for your best interest, if you're a player) is not a bad thing, since this is a business first. Here's an example of how not to win today. Who really has any respect for Kevin Garnett? Sure, he's a superstar player, with mad game, and crazy money. But he plays for a woefully inept team, the Timberwolves, whose ownership and management cripled the team. (This was the first draft since '99 where the Wolves had a first-round pick because of the sanctions levied against them by the NBA after the "Joe Smith Bit.") If KG had any sense, he would leave Minneapolis next year and take a huge pay cut and play with a winner. It is the only way he will ever get a ring.

Also, how could anyone question what the Lakers are doing? This is a brilliant of them. I mean, they would have to be high not to make this move: adding two Hall-of-Famers for, what, six million or so? Why, Fat Albert and Kobe combined make forty. The bottom line is that the Lakers need them and they need the Lakers. Malone and Payton fill needs, namely at the point and at forward.

That said, go Kings! Or Mavs! Or anyone else. Or let's hope that Shaq will be the lazy slob he's turned into. That'll do it.

12 Jul 2003 | Grant said...

Outside Barcelona city limits, Dream Team's rarely work. I think the Lakers improved their odds of winning it next year, sure--no doubt it was the best set of moves they could have pulled off.
But I wouldn't call up Balfour just yet.

12 Jul 2003 | ~bc said...

As a fan of the Utah team Karl's leaving, I feel it's definitely a "cheap" move. It's kinda like, let's ride the coat tails to a championship. Ray Borque made a similar move at the end of his career from the Bruins to the Avalanche, but that didn't have the same "tasteless" feeling to it. Besides, half of Karl is Stockton. Is he coming, too?

12 Jul 2003 | Sunny said...

I think the best way to do it would be to follow European soccer transfers. The clubs in Europe basically decide to pay a certain amount for any player who is available. Players have their respective contracts with thir clubs and if nothing is finalized abt their future, they can choose to move out with a free transfer. Otherwise most players would be bought and sold by sort of "market price". Thus players would actually always move depending upon their actual worth rather than undervaluing themselves like Malone and Payton.

This method also prevents teams from loading up (like the Lakers who just added future hall of famers Payton and Malone for little more than $6 million per year). One can equate the Lakers with the Spanish soccer club Real Madrid who have superstars like Ronaldo, Zinedine Zidane, Luis Figo, Raul and now David Beckham. The club had to shell out more than $200 million to obtain the services of these world superstars. So if a team really wants to load up, they should really make the necessary investment and pay the players what they are actually worth.

The sports scene needs a healthy dose of free markets. But rest assured the Lakers will be a sight to watch!

12 Jul 2003 | Paperhead said...

British person here. What's a ring?

Is this some kind of strange Tolkein/sports tie-in deal? ;)

12 Jul 2003 | Jonny Roader said...

Why so high and mighty JF? This forum long since gave up being about much more than consumer rights with a webdev spin. Surely these guys are fully entitled to do whatever the fuck they like, yeah? They have the talent, they have the marketability..it's a free world. Follow the dollar, follow the self...who gives a shit anymore? The crushing issues - poor customer service for your cellphone or whatever - remain.

13 Jul 2003 | JF said...

Why so high and mighty JF?

Didn't mean to come off like that. I say good for Malone and Payton -- they are certainly entitled to do whatever they want! No doubt they've earned it. What got me was how a lot of folks are portraying them as heros or saviors for taking less money to get a ring. They've had a lot of opportunities before, but it's only at the end of the career, after they've already amassed small fortunes, that they are willing to take less money. My point was that it's easy to take less when you already have more than you know what to do with. Nevermind.

13 Jul 2003 | Jonny Roader said...

Fair enough JF. Apologies for the little outburst.

13 Jul 2003 | Steve said...

As others pointed out, it's hardly a new trend, and I don't blame players at all for doing this. It's always amazed me how people react about free agency in American sports, that the players are just greedy for goign out and getting the best deal they want. Uh, hello - it's what all of us do throughout our careers, either getting the most satisfying job or the best-paying job or, if we're lucky, a job that offers both.

As one of like 8 people in the LA area who can't stand the Lakers, however, I will be experiencing more than my share of Schadenfreude when Payton starts whining about Kobe getting the ball too much, and Malone and Shaq start fighting underneath. Staples Center is nowhere near big enough to hold all four of those guys' heads.

14 Jul 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Much ado about nothing.

14 Jul 2003 | Paperhead said...

. . . except I still don't know what these rings are.

14 Jul 2003 | Brian Peddle said...

Rings ... When you win a championship, Superbowl, World Series, etc. The players are given these elaborate and VERY expensive rings.

Jose Canseco is selling his.

14 Jul 2003 | steve said...

Some pictures of Super Bowl rings and World Series rings.

14 Jul 2003 | Joe said...

Until a top-tier professional athlete says to ownership "pay me the league minimum and buy me a center/wide receiver/pitching staff", I'll refuse to believe any that say they care more about a championship than salary.

The ultimate example: A. Rod and the pitiful Rangers. Hope you're living large, Alex.

14 Jul 2003 | Bryan said...

Having a slew of Hall-of-famers isn't a guaranteed title.

Most recent example (since I'm from Houston): After winning back-to-back titles behind Hakeem in 1994-'95 (Drexler was on the '95 team), the Rockets figured Sir Charles would be enough to bring them another title. Unfortunately, a guy named Jordan returned. In '99, Drexler was gone, but Scottie Pippen was added to the mix in the strike year of 1999. Same result: nothing.

http://espn.go.com/nba/s/2003/0710/1579160.html

14 Jul 2003 | Don Schenck said...

I'd ask to play in a city where I can club racing sausages!

HA HA

14 Jul 2003 | monkeyinabox said...

Malone is totally selling out. Sure he's busted his ass for 18 years with the Jazz and almost got the ring a couple of times. Sure Utah never put up the team to help him and Stockton dominate, but what's the point in going to form an All-Star team to win the title? Where's the pride? Where's the challenege? I'm sure about Malone gets his ring he'll move on to Denver to pad his scoring and become the Pete Rose of basketball.

14 Jul 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Well said, Monkey.

14 Jul 2003 | Jeff said...

Selling out? Because he wants to win? For the minimum $? He still has gas left in the tank. He is a terrific perimiter shooter, to whom Shaq will be able to kick the ball out at will. He can still play (and don't think the Jazz wouldn't kick him to the curb the morning after he overtook Kareem "for Utah" -- see Emmit Smith). And Bryan is absolutely right about there being no guarantees that the Lakers will win it all, especially if Shaq is fat and Kobe's in trouble or doesn't want to share the ball.

15 Jul 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Shaq, reportedly, is getting into awesome shape. Kobe's lawyers will take care of this "incident". The Lakers, sadly, will be back.

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