06 Nov 2003 | Darrel said...

I'm with you.

06 Nov 2003 | bill said...

I am with you.

I am completely unable to be serviced - a quirk reinforced by my recent anniversary trip to a b&b where my girlfriend and I straightened up our room every morning before the innkeepers could make their rounds.

For these reasons better explained by Rosencrans I avoid fine dining and massages/spas like the SARS.

06 Nov 2003 | f5 said...

I am completely with you.

I absolutely cannot stand bathroom attendants. Please, I really do have sugar in my blood to move my right arm 1.6 feet to grab my own towel, thanks.

And really, a dirty dollar bill is the abolute last thing I want to touch just after I've washed my hands before a meal.

06 Nov 2003 | pb said...

Me, too. One of the things I especially hate is hotel bell hops taking my easily-carried luggage.

06 Nov 2003 | Rosecrans said...

I think I hate bathroom attendants the most. Why do restaurants still hire these guys? Why do I have to spend a dollar feeling bad for the guy who's been handing out hand towels for 30 years?

Recently I ate at a French restaurant in downtown Manhattan where the bathroom's downstairs in the basement. The attendant probably hasn't seen sunlight since Watergate. He gives me the handtowel, I go for my wallet, it's not until I'm seated at my table back upstairs that I realize I just gave him a $20 bill. Am I supposed to go back downstairs and ruin what had to be the highlight of this guy's day? It was a horrible lunch.

06 Nov 2003 | Zac said...

Oh, definitely...count me in! Being serviced makes me incredibly uncomfortable. I almost feel guilty in those situations, wondering, "what have I done to deserve being placed a notch above this person?" When the doorman holds open the door for me, he becomes less important because I suddenly have the power to command him to do something that I'm perfectly capable of doing myself.

I think most people agree that we're all basically equal, so the idea of imposing a hierarchy of importance (which comes down to economics, mostly) really bothers me.

Of course, I'm also one of those do-it-yourself types who never played well in school with "group projects." So maybe that has something to do with it.

In any case, it sure is refreshing to know I'm in good company!

06 Nov 2003 | Benjy said...

I agree about the bathroom attendant. I hate the implied pressure to tip because he hands me a paper towel or squirts the soap in my hand for me.

Same goes for valet parking at places with ample close parking. This was more an issue when I lived in Atlanta, where Maggiano's and Cheesecake Factory (to name a few) would valet your car in their big giant lot 10 feet away from where you drop the car off. Then when the meal's over you have to wait 15 minutes for the attendant to ask about your car and pull it around, when you can see it right over there and could walk to it in 30 seconds. And for this, they expect a tip! I once really p*ssed off the valets at CF when I just walked up to their key board, told them I was taking my keys and took my car which was in the closest spot to the door.

07 Nov 2003 | dayvin said...

I'm with you all the way. And I don't do valet parking simply because I don't want anyone else ever driving my car.

Another one that irks me is the Parking Lot Cart Guy and Club Scrubber Guy at some upscale golf courses. When I bypass the bag drop area and head straight for the lot, Parking Lot Cart Guy is there to immediately whisk away my golf bag, even if I'm walking or need to organize my stuff before the round. And afterwards, you can count on Club Scrubber Guy to be there, ready to take the wet towel to your clubs. I prefer to do it myself, thank you very much.

07 Nov 2003 | JF said...

And I don't do valet parking simply because I don't want anyone else ever driving my car.

Amen.

07 Nov 2003 | Jocke said...

Im totally with you as well. In this aspect, (again), I love Japan. You get great service and its unpolite to tip the waitress, taxidriver whatever.

07 Nov 2003 | mal said...

Is this an American thing or am I just going to the wrong restaurants over here in the UK? I guess I should count myself lucky I've never been 'serviced' in my life. I'm definitely with you on the car thing, though. Nobody gets to drive my car except me.

07 Nov 2003 | Don Schenck said...

Well ... as you probably guessed ... I *love* being attended to. It's a luxury, and ... it's a great feeling to share the wealth with a hard-working person who perhaps, *perhaps*, just doesn't have the wherewithall to find a "better" job.

I always strike up a conversation with bellhops, servers, etc., and most of the time they're college students. Well, most college students need money, so I then tend to tip very generously.

Enjoy it.

07 Nov 2003 | Darrel said...

"just doesn't have the wherewithall to find a "better" job."

Ya know, this thread got me thinking that being a bathroom attendant maybe ain't that bad of a gig. Sit. Hand out towels. Read bagazines. Collect money. Hmm...

07 Nov 2003 | Jonny Roader said...

If you lot hate 'being serviced' so much I dread to think what you'd make of doing the servicing.

Count your blessings FFS.

07 Nov 2003 | Scott said...

OK, now this is writing:
"Growing up around rich people, I learned early that the last thing the world needs is rich people feeling their richness rubbed into them, richly."

I just may have to start using an email signature again.

And if a bathroom attendant is going to get a $20 tip the least they could do is zip me up.

07 Nov 2003 | Chris said...

I think most bathroom attendents are freelancers, all they are making is the tips. I too hate the implied pressure to tip, but I usually throw a buck on his plate for nothing more that to support his effort to actually work and earn a living.

07 Nov 2003 | Brad Hurley said...

I'm with Mal -- I never even heard of "bathroom attendants" until I read this post. And I lived in the US until last year. I guess I must not be going to the right restaurants.

My one experience with valet parking ended badly: the valet twisted the key too hard in the ignition switch, damaging both the key and the switch so I couldn't start it again. The car was in an underground parking lot that didn't have enough clearance for a tow truck to enter. A three-day nightmare.

By the way "getting serviced" is an agricultural euphemism for getting laid. When farmers talk about getting their cows serviced, it means letting a bull loose amongst them for a couple of days.

07 Nov 2003 | Bob said...

It's not just agricultural!

When I go into a joint with a bathroom attendant, I always make sure to give him my money first, before I piss all over my hands. And who wants to touch money with their freshly washed hands anyway?

07 Nov 2003 | Benjy said...

I never even heard of "bathroom attendants" until I read this post. And I lived in the US until last year. I guess I must not be going to the right restaurants.

They mostly attend bathrooms at trendy bars/clubs in big cities. In addition to turning on the faucet and handing out paper towels, most also keep on hand ample supplies of cologne and gum...

07 Nov 2003 | SU said...

In the Czech Republic, Poland, and Slovakia, you have to pay an attendant to piss at nearly every bathroom *except* in nicer restaurants. It seems these grandmas working the men's lavatory are freelancing retirees who get a kick out of being the gatekeeper between me and an empty bladder. Save some extra dough for toilet paper.

07 Nov 2003 | Mark Fusco said...

I find it akward to be serviced, (unless it's being offered on a truly helpful basis - ie opening a car door and offering an umbrella in bad weather vs handing me a towel in the men's room) but on the other hand find it highly frustrated to receive prompt good service.

Case in point, I use the self-checkout in Kroger to avoid being serviced, but expect the clerk monitoring the stations to at least make eye contact with me and see that I have a bottle of wine that he / she knows will cause the system to stop until the approval code is punched in. This, however isn't usually the case, and I instead have to resort to all types of antics to get their attention, so I can finish checking myself out.

07 Nov 2003 | jkottke said...

I identifed with that passage as well, but I generally make a distinction between services that I need/desire and those that I don't. Cab drivers, servers in restaurants, shoe shiners, and even valets** are fine with me. If I got mancures, that would be fine with me as well. I don't feel uncomfortable because they aren't beneath me in any way; they're providing me with a service for which I am paying, a transaction among equals. They certainly don't feel bad taking my money.

What I don't like is having service that I don't want being forced upon me, especially when the service involves the whole fucked-up culture of tipping***. When I arrive at a hotel, I want to take the bags up to my room by myself. However, because I know that the bellhop derives a not-insignificant portion of his income from tips, I feel bad doing so because I'm depriving him of that extra income. As Jason says, I can hold my own door, I can dry my own hands, I can hail my own cab, thank you very much.

Also, a classic in the served/serviced canon is David Foster Wallace's A Supposedly Fun Thing I've Never Do Again which appears in the book of the same name.

** Valet parking in some parts of SF is almost mandatory and a welcome service, but in general, if I don't have to use it, I try not to.

*** Tipping in the US is busted. Tips should be for exemplary service and should not be expected on the part of the customer, the employee, or the owner of the business. Why should I pay my cab fare *and* tip the driver? He's just doing his job! Why can't the taxi company pay him a per diem + a little extra per trip, base the fare price on that, and if he gets me to the airport 5 minutes before I said I needed to be there to make my flight I tip him accordingly? Restaurants should include service in the cost of meals (as in Europe). I'm tired of being felt of as rude when I don't tip someone as much as they thought they should be tipped because I didn't think their level of service was exemplary. I'm not a jerk...I'm appreciative of the service and I never treat anyone with anything less than civility, but this whole tipping thing just sets up a bad relationship triangle with the customer, the employee, and the business owner and it needs to go.

07 Nov 2003 | JF said...

What I don't like is having service that I don't want being forced upon me

Yeah, that's what I should have said.

07 Nov 2003 | Don Schenck said...

jkotte's points are appropriate in, say, the NFL as well. When a player scores a touchdown and then goes wild, I think "What the heck, THAT's what they sent you in there for. You're EXPECTED to score!".

*sigh*

07 Nov 2003 | One of several Steves said...

When a player scores a touchdown and then goes wild, I think "What the heck, THAT's what they sent you in there for. You're EXPECTED to score!".

As Paul Brown said, "When you reach the end zone, act like you've been there before."

On service - it doesn't bother me much. That's what the whole economy is based on. People offer up services that others either can't perform or don't have the time or desire to do so, and they receive money in exchange. My client could run their web site and applications and figure out online marketing strategy and all that by themselves if they really wanted to, but they don't have the time to do so. So they pay me and a bunch of other people to do it for them.

Is that really so different than the valet parking my car because I don't want to drive around the block over and over again looking for a parking space?

07 Nov 2003 | Benjy said...

Is that really so different than the valet parking my car because I don't want to drive around the block over and over again looking for a parking space?

I think the issue is more whether the service is valued by the consumer and whether they feel free to accept or decline the service accordingly. Now that I live in Chicago, where parking is hard to find and typically expensive it's worth it to me to valet. But when the restaurant has a huge lot of their own and complementary valet, the only purpose it seemingly serves is to generate tips for the valet guys. The restaurant doesn't generate revenue, and the 30 seconds saved on the way in results in a waste of 10 minutes on the way out. Yet the valets expect a tip for their "disservice."

07 Nov 2003 | David said...

In addition to handing you towels and making you feel unduly obligated, the bathroom attendant's job is to keep the bathroom clean.

I don't love extra service either, but it's situational. You don't want a valet, but you love the valet when it's pouring. You don't want a bellhop, but when you're out with your wife and you have four oversize bags, you can't wait to see that luggage cart.

This is just like paying your insurance: It matters a lot more the day you actually need it.

07 Nov 2003 | David said...

(Which, of course, was my initial point: the day you need to sit down in the men's room is the day you're suddenly thrilled an attendant cleaned up before you got there.)

07 Nov 2003 | One of several Steves said...

But when the restaurant has a huge lot of their own and complementary valet, the only purpose it seemingly serves is to generate tips for the valet guys.

Maybe I'm missing something, but then why not bypass the valet and just park yourself? I've never been any place that requires me to valet my car. It's always an option. Sometimes pretty much the only option (Chicago, Santa Monica, etc.), but it's an option. Especially for the shopping mall ones.

07 Nov 2003 | Benjy said...

Maybe I'm missing something, but then why not bypass the valet and just park yourself?

The places in which I encountered this, the only access into the big giant lots were via a single width one-way drive with the valets stationed in a location that pretty much prevented me from driving past them.

18 Nov 2003 | Heimarbeit said...

I am with you.
Its just like paying your insurance: It matters a lot more the day you actually need it.

21 Nov 2003 | jk said...

Tipping is a complicated social phenomenon.

Coming from a country where tipping is not customary, I find that people are so much likely to just not tip at all, even when the service is better than usual. Tipping feels awkward and besides, "he's just doing his job."

I think the lack of tipping leads to a lack of motivation. If the employer pays a set rate to his employees and the customer is unlikely to tip, there is no incentive for good service.

I do understand your concern for this whole tipping thing, and while I've never been to the US, I gather that it might have gotten slightly out of hand there.

The idea of including service in costs in a culture where tipping is already commonplace is substantial. However, changing a social habit that has existed for several centuries is another thing completely.

16 Jan 2004 | Anchor said...

At WWDC, I listened to Apple representatives make some excellent points about taking the time to build a 100%-compliant Aqua application, and I think all developers need to look beyond the code and listen to what the folks at Apple have to say