27 May 2004 | Charbel said...

That's just too silly...Who invented the hamburger, and are there any hamburger guidelines?

27 May 2004 | Mussolini said...

What, you don't like our pizza?

27 May 2004 | Benjy said...

I think Chicago should do the same for stuffed pizza, so the rest of the world doesn't continue eating that fake Pizza Hut "Chicago-Style" deep dish pizza thinking that's what we're all proud of...

28 May 2004 | ~bc said...

Let's all remember that pizza as most the world knows it was invented by Italians-- in New York City, and soon after New Haven, CT. Either way it's funny Italy would do this... curious to look at the standards... whether they're more pre-NYC style (some would call them tomato pies) or more American-esque...

28 May 2004 | pb said...

Deep dish pizza is pretty grim.

28 May 2004 | ~bc said...

"Napoletana pizza" Ah yes (after reading the article), the four sanctioned pizzas are the classic Italian staples, not what you and I may think of classic ("cheese" "pepperoni"), keeping very true to the origins of what lead to the NYC pizza. Very interesting.

28 May 2004 | ~bc again said...

Me again... I also wanted to say the Chicago style is quite enjoyable in its own right. Never having been in Chitown, the closest I've had was "Pizzeria Uno" which I guess the original came from the original restaurant of that chain. Funny thing is, being from Boston, I know that company, Uno's, is now based out of Beantown. None the less, it's tasty.

"Uno Restaurant Holdings Corporation (URHC)... 200 full-service company-owned and franchised Uno Chicago Grill restaurants. Formerly known as Pizzeria Uno, we now serve great steaks, seafood and a variety of other casual dining favorites, along with the signature Chicago-style Deep Dish Pizza we invented back in 1943."

28 May 2004 | waylman said...

Interesting, for sure. Personaly, I prefer the NYC style ~bc refers to. But then again thats pretty much what I grew up on. A few years back I roomed with a few guys from California. We were living just outside NYC and they all complained about how they couldn't get any good pizza around there. Personaly, I thought the local pizza shop had some of the best pizza I've ever had. They thought good pizza was supposed to be similar to (although better than) Pizza Hut's Pan Pizza. Ack! I guess my point is that what people percieve as good and authentict pizza depends on what was generaly available in the area they grew up in. Apparently, the Itailians just what to make sure that doesn't change for them.

As I am actually from the Buffalo NY area I see this with Buffalo Wings all the time. (Yes, they are named after their city of origin and have nothing to do with the animal). While there may be a few places that have them right, for the most part you have to go to Buffalo to get anything like the original. Maybe someday I'll actualy make it to the wing festival they have every year. Mmmmmm. Btw, if they don't make you cry, then they are not hot enough IMO (and that of most wing festival addendees, or so I'm told). Must add more hot sauce!

Ok, all this talk about food is making me hungry.

28 May 2004 | Benjy said...

~bc,

I actually meant to add Uno Chicago Grill to my list of "fake" Chicago-style pizza attempting to pass off their product as the real deal. While closer than the Pizza Hut attempt, it's still not the same as the pizza served at the real Pizzeria Uno in Chicago.

28 May 2004 | Don Schenck said...

I read American Pie this past winter, and this was mentioned in the book. I'm not only not surprised, but as a self-proclaimed "Pizza Expert" (both eating and cooking -- yeah, you THINK you can make pizza ... "BRING IT ON" [sound familiar?]), I'm quite glad. Someone needs to make sure all those wannabe toe the line.

Mmmmm ... pizza. Sunday's a "free day" ... think I'll roast some pizzas on the grill ... mmmmm ...

28 May 2004 | Ian Olsen-Clark said...

Judge for yourselves. You can learn to make or eat a true pizza DOC here :

Read: Pizza Napoletana

Learn: VPN

Eat: USA Approved Restaurants

28 May 2004 | LNJ said...

OK... so, pizza rules. I agree that if Italy can do it, Chicago needs to come in with some sort of "Chicago Deep Dish" standard.

Aren't there also similar Italian rules for coffee and espresso? Also, I could swear I read somewhere that the Italians have rules about how veal is served.

The question is... to much free time or a system that runs SO well, oddball rules need to be thought up and applied?

28 May 2004 | Don Schenck said...

"We must have a Pizza Standard!".

Can't they just use XML.

No ... wait ... ARGH ... I'm confused again.

I find it interesting that France has a Ministry Of Culture. The United States could never do that; we embrace diversity too much to do that. Our culture is pretty much "whatever culture you want".

Which I think is cool.

And better. ;-)

28 May 2004 | Urbanchords said...

Man! I am hungry for a Gino's East pizza now. It has been 15 years since my first, and I can still taste it. I might have to grab a slice while I am in town in a couple weeks. I still have never been to Weiner Circle.

What is New York City style pizza? Is it like St. Louis style pizza? Or what I call "pizza on a cracker"?

28 May 2004 | but that's just me said...

These pretzels are making me thirsty! Oh...no...that's something else. This Chicago pizza talk is making me hungry! Yes, that's it. Please, for the love of God, someone send this transplanted Chicagoan some Pizzeria Uno STAT! It's a matter of life and death...it's been at least 4 years since I've had Chicago pizza...what is the longest reported time someone has lived without it?!

28 May 2004 | LNJ said...

Hey waylman-- "few guys from California..."

As a midwesterner who grew up on WI cheese and beer and Chicago pizza, I know from good and you're right, CA has shite for pizza. Pizza Hut and Round Table are considered the real deal. All in all, one of the joys of my returning to the Milwaukee area for holiday gatherings and the like, is the fact that I get to glutton myself on Pizza.

I think part of the CA problem with pizza is that they try to get to heathy/fancy/trendy with the pie out here. I've been to pizza joints here in CA that serve "seafood pizza with goat cheese and a smattering of eggplant". I'm sorry, but shirmp, clams, and eggplant DO NOT belong on pizza.

Someone get some dollars together and send CA a WI baker, Chicago butcher, and NY pizza joint and if you can keep it real and true to the skills of those peoples in those areas, you wil make a trillion dollars. I mean, good bread is Safeway brand Italian Loaf and good chicken is Foster's Farm! Can't we get a meat market or butcher to give us REAL food, and not packaged please.

28 May 2004 | ~bc said...

sorry, but shirmp, clams, and eggplant DO NOT belong on pizza.

Agreed, however, there is east-coast Italian history to clams on pizza. (Honestly don't know if they have clams in Italy, so I'm jut going on personal experience). In the NYC/New England area here is a historical variant of the Margherita pizza, with bacon and clams, fresh tomatoes, and a ton of garlic. Many times it's served white, not red (white= no tomato sauce base), but I don't know the Italians' take on white pizzas. They are tasty, though. Might just be Italians taking advantage of the local delicacies. (I've yet to see lobster or crab pizza, luckily.)

29 May 2004 | One of several Steves said...

I live in California now. The reports of the sheer suckiness of California pizza are greatly underexaggerated. There is no good pizza here.

Sadly, the only place serving authentic Chicago-style pizza I've had outside of Chicago, in Orange County of all places, closed down recently. It was good. Very Lou Malnatti like (I kept wavering between Lou's and Gino's for my favorite back when I was living in Chicago).

BC, you're right that pizza as most of the world knows it is an American invention. But, the Italians did have a precursor by the same name. Basically, it was a way for serving up extra small pieces of flat bread like focaccia. Put a couple toppings on it, and it was a snack. The pie and meal concept originated in the States.

29 May 2004 | Brennen Florey said...

Modern Apizza serves both clams and eggplant on a couple of their most excellent pies in New Haven. And you're not going to get much *more* authentic pizza in the world.

Seriously.

31 May 2004 | H said...

Is it any wonder this is where we get the Mafia?

31 May 2004 | Brad Hurley said...

Now that barbecue season is here, you should try grilled pizzas, they're really delicious and a lot faster to make than a regular pizza.

The recipe I use was in the NY Times magazine a few years ago (June 25, 1995 to be exact); I've been making them every summer since then and they're one of my favorite summer meals.

The dough is just a basic pizza dough: 1 cup warm water, 1 package (1 tablespoon) dry yeast, 1 tablespoon olive oil, 2.5 to 3 cups of white flour, and a teaspoon of salt. Combine the water and yeast in a bowl and stir til the yeast dissolves, then stir in a cup of the flour and mix. Then add another cup of flour and the salt, turn out on a floured surface and knead with the rest of the flour until the dough is no longer sticky. Let rise in an oiled bowl for an hour or so. Punch it down and divide into 4 equal pieces. Roll them out into roughly 9 inch circles, and place on the grill. They will start to puff up after a minute or so; turn them over with a spatula and grill for about 2-3 minutes.

Make the toppings in advance; my favorite is a mix of marinated peppers and a zucchini slaw. For the peppers mix 3 tablespoons balsamic vinegar, 1 tablespoon olive oil, and a little salt and pepper with 3 sliced roasted red peppers. (You can roast the peppers over the grill, lay them right on the grate and turn them until they're uniformly black, then drop them into a paper bag to steam for a bit. Wash them under cold water and rub briskly to remove all the blackened skin).

For the zucchini slaw: grate 1 medium zucchini (courgette to you Brits out there) and toss with 2 teaspoons fresh lemon juice and a little salt and pepper.

Put the marinated peppers on top of your grilled pizzas, then add the zucchini slaw; top it all off with some shaved Parmesan cheese, along with a tablespoon or so of thinly sliced basil leaves.

These are unbelievably delicious. Okay, not authentic pizza, but great food.

01 Jun 2004 | but that's just me said...

New Haven, Connecticut? I didn't realize that was a hotbed of "authentic" pizza...hmmm...

01 Jun 2004 | Benjy said...

While travelling back from Des Moines yesterday, I had an Uno's personal pizza at the airport. Let me tell you, it was NOTHING like a chicago-style pizza. It had the cheese on the top--enough said!

02 Jun 2004 | mike said...

waylman I just wanted to say im a Buffalo expat, and I cannot find Pizza to match my favorite spots in the city anywhere here in Colorado. Bob and Johns on Hertel, Casa Di on Elmwood!

And for the record Buffalo's summerly "taste of buffalo" food festival is the bet of its kind, as well!

02 Jun 2004 | fyi said...

New Haven is pizza. Try attending Pizzafest there sometime. It's a real good time. For those in San Fran... Zacchary's Pizza in the Rockridge District of Oakland is damn good.