17 Jun 2004 | waylman said...

So is he proud that He has not done them or is he proud of the creativity of the designers who have done them? Or does he mean something else entirely? I just read the entire article and I still don't know.

My guess is he means he's proud of the decision not to do them, but I suppose we will never know.

17 Jun 2004 | jENG said...

Jobs is so on the money. Experience is everything and that's what Apple is interested in.

17 Jun 2004 | sloan said...

While the comment is on the money, the practice hasn't been. The third generation iPods were a step back in terms of usability (the row of buttons is awful, and don't get me started on the lack of feedback). They also spent time getting QuickTime movies to play in the dock when printing still didn't work in OS 10.1.x. So I'd say there is quite a mixed message from Apple on this front. Their OS is still missing tons of usability features from OS 9 because of their focus on the digital hub strategy and the applications themselves leave a lot to be desired in the usability realm.

17 Jun 2004 | pb said...

Seeing that he was referring to a PDA, it's obvious he means he is proud that they decided not to put out a lame, dead-end product.

17 Jun 2004 | pb said...

Agreed on the 3rd gen iPod buttons. They are both lousily placed and don't provide adequate tactile feedback. I still even prefer the wheel that actually spins.

17 Jun 2004 | ~bc said...

They also spent time getting QuickTime movies to play in the dock when printing still didn't work in OS 10.1.x. So I'd say there is quite a mixed message

Well, that'd be a worthwhile criticism if the QuickTime team, or the user interface team were in charge of writing the Print Center. Not an apologist, but you're really just criticizing one team for doing a good job, while another had issues.

I love the iPod mini controls, myself.

18 Jun 2004 | sloan said...

I was referring to the fact that overall, as a company, resources were put on things that were unnecessary and silly while basic parts of the OS were still incomplete. Instead of getting movies to play in the dock, how about making the dock usable?

The iPod mini controls are much better than the row of glyphs on 3rd gen iPods, I agree completely. I still feel as though the code should be tweeked to prevent overscrolling, meaning if you are going really fast you miss your target. Something akin to Tivo's skip forward feature really rewinding a little bit when you let go (to take into account user reaction time) to get you to your "intended" target... that would be nice. Am I the only one that has a hard time selecting on an iPod? And when will the iPod mini's UI show up on the big boy?

18 Jun 2004 | Not Cynical said...

This is the way to be. Good on Jason. A compromise may still be possible. Stay open minded.

18 Jun 2004 | John S. Rhodes said...

"Right now we've got a choice to make ourselves, which is should we spend our energy enhancing the music store and enhancing the iPod in the format that has 70% of the business or should we take some of that energy and stop innovating and go back and try to play Windows Media, which has 30% or less of the market. And we've chosen right now to go with the 70% format. We really believe that we can innovate much more if we control that technology."

Innovation through control. How 1984 is that?

(But seriously, wouldn't market share go up if the iPod could play more formats? Tell me why I am wrong.)

18 Jun 2004 | Bill Brown said...

It's an illustration of one of the basic laws of marketing that Eric Sink has been highlighting.

John: Is market share everything? I think Apple's history has shown that market share is a nice-to-have. Further, they've got the #1 mp3 player on the market. They can't keep up with demand. Why do you think that adding WMA playback is going to significantly increase their share? Wouldn't the costs of implementation be significant? How do you implement DRM-based formats? How do you decide which second-tier services to support and how much are the licensing fees for that support?

They include the most popular format—mp3—and their DRM-based format—AAC. Those two take care of all their present needs, so why should they bother with the rest?

18 Jun 2004 | One of several Steves said...

John: Is market share everything? I think Apple's history has shown that market share is a nice-to-have. Further, they've got the #1 mp3 player on the market. They can't keep up with demand.

Replace #1 mp3 player with #1 personal computer, and make it 1981 all over again, and maybe it becomes more apparent why market share is more than nice to have.

Apple made a monumental mistake in the 1980s by insisting on complete control, instead of licensing out their technology and giving up control of the hardware side. As a result, the company has had a couple periods where its very survival was in question.

They've learned that lesson to some degree by letting HP produce iPods. And while I don't think the general file format is a big deal - until somebody comes up with a better widely available compression algorithm than MP3 - it is potentially problematic in the medium and long term that the iPod will not play music downloaded from other pay sources than iTunes, and that iTunes downloads will only play on iPods (at least if you don't take the extra step of burning and then ripping a CD of what you just bought).

Yes, Apple has the dominant position in legal downloads and portable digital music players right now. But that's not a guarantee they'll be there tomorrow, and there are signs that their market share is already starting to drop a bit (ref. recent articles in Business Week that I'm too lazy to go find links for at the moment).

18 Jun 2004 | Jesper said...

"One of several Steves": What you're not seeing is that the iPod is one of their "budget" projects. Most people can, arguably, buy an iPod instead of something else; there's no guarantee for a Mac over a PC on the same level. Jobs noted in that very interview that iPod is their metaphorical $400 computer; it's an inexpensive item compared to Apple's usual pricing, and they're working on bringing it down. They are allowing the HP deal because it will bring in more sales to the iTMS, and quite possibly because the labels would otherwise get angry.

It's also important to note that in 1984, when the Mac came out, it was -significantly- more expensive than other PCs. Those PCs ofcourse wasn't on par with the Mac (and that's the way it goes today as well), but it was still a lot more expensive. If Apple magically could have brought down the price with $1000, it would have sold a lot better and kept its market share - ofcourse. If you could buy a high-end system for the price of a mid- or low-end, you would.

But the thing people are missing is that Apple didn't fail because they didn't license their system - they did in the 90s and all that produced was low-end Macs. Low-end Macs are not good because Apple only makes good high-end software and solutions. The "low-end" Macs actually compare to mid-end PCs, giving the illusion that it's just a damn expensive machine.

18 Jun 2004 | Bill Brown said...

One of Several Steves: Once again, I'm going to disagree with you about the source of Apple's low marketshare. I think the dominance of Windows has been irrefutably linked to Microsoft's business practices and not, as you suggest, by Apple's failure to license the Mac OS.

I am not suggesting that Microsoft is an actual monopolist, just that their aggressiveness and drive displaced Apple at precisely the time when Apple was resting on its laurels, was directionless, and was generally sluggish. That's part and parcel of Microsoft's success: the wholesale seizure of opportunities with all the company's resources.

Apple was pretty much a victim of its own success after the Apple II (when they worked on the ill-fated Apple III and Lisa) and the original Macintosh (when they started spewing out models and products outside their core competency). Coincidentally, it was Steve Jobs that refocused Apple both times. I'm sure that if he leaves, it will once again founder.

18 Jun 2004 | pb said...

Don't forget that the singular reason why the Mac is a better experience and Apple is able to do all the cool things it is doing is because it controls the components and has a manageable installed base.

18 Jun 2004 | Scott said...

Unfortunately, Apple has often been notorious for getting something near perfect, and then redoing it for no apparent reason...

The 3g iPod buttons are such an example. (At least they made a step back in the right direction with the mini)

So is removing the power button from the keyboard.

The G3 Powerbook line had many wonderful design elements going for it in the interchangeable battery/drive bays, which disappeared with the G4 line.

Four versions of OS X with tons of new innovations, but still missing several old "innovations" from OS 9.

I'm sure there were "reasons" all of these happened, but I'm sure they were all short-sighted, and then just fell by the wayside.

18 Jun 2004 | One of several Steves said...

Most people can, arguably, buy an iPod instead of something else

I disagree. I don't think most people think $400 is affordable for a music player at all. Not when CD players are running sub-$100. The market for a $400 portable music player is not real widespread.

And, as you noted with the Mac/PC situation in the 1980s, people are usually going to opt for price over quality. Anyone who used it recognized the superiority of a Mac, but when it came to deciding between dropping $2000 on a PC or $3500 on a Mac, the overwhelming majority of them chose the price. The same thing potential exists with the iPod, where people can find units with equal or greater storage with better battery life, smaller size/lighter weight, etc. for $150 less.

By the way, here are the Business Week stories I mentioned earlier regarding how the iPod's market share might not be as great as is claimed, and how other manufacturers are catching up:

• iPod market share may be overstated
• iPod competitive landscape (I think this article requires a site subscription)

Bill, I would agree that Microsoft's business practices certainly play a huge role in the relative strengths of the Wintel platform v. the Mac platform in terms of market share. But, that's more of a phenomenon of the 90s, I think, than the 80s when the game was still open and it could go either way. From what I've seen, most impartial analysts say Apple's decision to control hardware as well as software, and not price competitively, definitely played a significant role in the way the market share of each platform evolved. Was it the only factor? No. But it did count.

18 Jun 2004 | ek said...

One of Several Steves, if price is the real issue, then why does it matter whether or not iPods play WMA encoded music?

Put another way, what percentage of the population would not buy an iPod because it doesn't play WMA-encoded files?

My guess is that the number is very, very small (I doubt most people have any idea what format their players play). Assuming that's correct, why put any resources against adding that functionality and supporting it over time?

Also, I think you're missing a huge part of what makes the iPod so much better than any other digital music player on the market today; iTunes.

Adding WMA-playing capability would make the iPod just another commodity player (and an expensive one at that) that could be tied to any number of the horrendously bad digital music management apps on the market today.

While it may eliminate options, tieing the iPod to iTunes gives the device an added value that it would lose if Apple were to support WMA.

That's why I don't think Apple will support WMA any time soon. It's not a technical issue, but a critical strategic issue for them.

As for price, I'd be really, really surprised if Apple didn't offer lower priced iPods and iPod minis by this holiday season. My bet is that we'll see the first sub-$200 iPod before the year is out.

18 Jun 2004 | Jesper said...

I disagree. I don't think most people think $400 is affordable for a music player at all. Not when CD players are running sub-$100. The market for a $400 portable music player is not real widespread.

Yeah. That's why it's available for $300, and even $250 for the mini, which will reportedly (and as ek said) drop below $200 before fall is over. And the whole point of the iPod is that you can store 20+ full CDs worth of digital music files in one small appliance.

Apple have really gone to great lengths to keep the price down. The very first iPod cost $300. Turns out, the HD they used cost around $300 from factory, which means they did some incredible price negotiation. While it's true that they now make around $80 in pure profit on the 40GB model, I think they're going to lower the whole line in price simply to profit by volume.

19 Jun 2004 | hartmurmur said...

One of Several Steves said:
Apple made a monumental mistake in the 1980s by insisting on complete control, instead of licensing out their technology and giving up control of the hardware side. As a result, the company has had a couple periods where its very survival was in question.

Disagree. But I leave it up to Gruber who is more eloquent than I. He writes...

Apple Is a Hardware Company

This point cannot be emphasized strongly enough. Apple is a computer hardware company. Selling hardware is how Apple generates most of its revenue. Their operating system software may well be the best aspect of their computers, but that does not make them a software company. Anyone who claims that Apple could simply switch to being a software company and make up for lost hardware revenue by selling additional software doesnt understand how the company operates.

During the brief period of time when Apple licensed the Mac OS to other manufacturers, their revenue tanked. Too many people bought cheap clones from PowerComputing and Umax instead of higher-priced Macs from Apple, and the licensing revenue didnt compensate for the lost hardware revenue. The situation may well have been good for Mac users, but it was terrible for Apples bottom line.

Continued at http://daringfireball.net/2003/04/qwerty

19 Jun 2004 | One of several Steves said...

Ek, I wasn't the one saying it should support WMA. I don't think anybody's going to care about that format much, either, especially when the de facto standard has been mp3 for quite a while, and doesn't show any signs of abating.

I did comment that, potentially, people might not like not being able to use services other than iTunes, although at this point it still has a notable library size advantage compared to other services.

And I still think price will be an issue. You can't base consumer behavior writ large based on a pool of people who generally make pretty decent money and who are generally early adopters like most of the posters here. Huge portions of the population don't even know what an iPod is, let alone think $200, $300 or $400 is a good value for one.

19 Jun 2004 | Jesper said...

Huge portions of the population don't even know what an iPod is

Huge portions of the populations aren't into computers good enough to know how to rip a CD, or start any program other than Internet Explorer, Word or Outlook Express. Apple's aiming at people slightly lower than computer literates and are continuing to lower the bar in steps by making some things easier.

21 Jun 2004 | Jose Rui Fernandes said...

Well, I think he want's to say he is proud of all the products Apple done, but some for one reason or another didn't see the light of the day.
Regarding the Mac, iPod and market share, I don't think it was a mistake at all to keep control of everything in the 1980s. A lot happened since then that contributed to the sub 5% market share, not only that particular decision.
But I would like to see the Mac with 10% market share, no more. That way the "BMW status" could be kept and the software companies could do some more work on the Mac. I don't like the way things are right now on that front. For me, very important software houses are not supporting the Mac enough. Adobe, Quark and Macromedia are turning into PC companies (the last time I looked, the screenshots of the Macromedia help are from Windows) and that can't be good.
I don't like all the attention the iPod is getting. First because I don't understand this mp3 thing and how a download can substitute a good looking, beautifully designed and -- very important --, sounding good CD (when played in a proper stereo). Second I don't like this "music to go" concept. When I'm out of my house I like to have my eyes and hears wide open, specially riding my bike or walking on the street.
I guess I'm very last century in this matter or just afraid of dying young listening to my favorite music with bad sound quality.

21 Jun 2004 | scoffer said...

Pride is one of the 7 sins.
Increasing use of "I'm proud of myself for ..." is an indicator of cultural hubris.
Steve Jobs is saying he's proud of not selling out.
But as a solo graphic designer, and a Mac user from way back, I don't see it that way.
OS X is designed for the prosumer and corporate market, not for me.
Fair enough, that's progress.
But rather than pride in what he thinks he hasn't done (which is always a matter of conjecture), I'd prefer an apology, less eye candy, and a little humility.

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