05 Nov 2004 | Hunter said...

Microsoft does this with its OS X Office updates as well, for no reason.

Annoying as hell.

05 Nov 2004 | David Schontzler said...

I wonder what's at play behind the scenes that they have to force you to do that.

Pondering...

05 Nov 2004 | ~bc said...

It's tough to be Adobe, they're trying to take away Quark's business, and to do that, they feel they have to imitate Quark, and bad customer service is a hallmark of Quark, according to feedback I've gotten!

05 Nov 2004 | qwerty said...

Technically, this requriement is bullshit. Even after you close all applications on OS X, certain system services are running (as a "ps aux" command will show you). So if I wanted to monitor the update process, I'd dress up this software as a system service or login in remotely. I doubt that the installer even can check that no ordinary applications are still running.

05 Nov 2004 | mooch said...

Makes sense that the Adobe ads appear considering the title of this post, but it still made me chuckle.

05 Nov 2004 | Silus Grok said...

I can only guess, but my guess on quitting the browsers is so that Adobe can monopolize all the sockets (a 400 MB download would be hella-bad if they had to share sockets)... and my guess on quitting all the applications is that Adobe likes to do some deep installs, and they don't want any processes running that might compromise a file (I'm using that part of the code, you can't update it! No! I'm trying to update that code, you can't use it!).

Heh.

And the same goes for MSFT: they _love_ deep installs.

Which creeps me the hell out.

Anyway: it would be so easy to hate Adobe for their awful, awful customer service except their products pretty much kick a.

*sigh*

Of course, Adobe could have better dialogs:

"You have chosen to download Adobe InDesign... we recommend that you close all browsers, and any other applications that use the internet (e-mail, chat). If you choose to proceed without closing these applications, the download will likely take longer and you risk having the download corrupted.

Would you like to download now, or schedule an automatic download at a time when you're not using the computer?"

and:

"You are about to install Adobe InDesign. InDesign works very closely with your operating system, so we need to access very low-level files in order to install the program. We cannot do this while any other application is running (because we cannot predict how other applications may interfere with the installation).

Would you like to continue now, or schedule an automatic installation for a time when you won't be using the computer?"

05 Nov 2004 | Collin said...

Are you sure it's not just Installer VISE being lame? In this day and age, there's no reason to check off requiring all apps to quit just to install something.

DEVELOPERS: Use pkg files, for the love of God!

05 Nov 2004 | O. Stone said...

I wonder what's at play behind the scenes that they have to force you to do that.

Pondering...

we wonder too. hmmmnnn
sincerely,

M. Moore & O. Stone

05 Nov 2004 | Bob H. said...

Jason, surely you forgot to mention you were installing this on a Windows machine!? ;) Welcome to our hell.

05 Nov 2004 | mathew said...

it could be because of serial appz like little snitch, etc. maybe? i hate that too.

05 Nov 2004 | Todd Dominey said...

Another tactic Adobe loves is installing fonts in your System and/or User directory, despite the fact that almost every Adobe user I know uses a font management app of some kind.

05 Nov 2004 | Brad Hurley said...

These kind of installation headaches are much more common on Windows machines than on Macs. Just today I was installing an upgrade to ScanSoft's PDF Converter, a very handy utility that converts PDFs to Microsoft Word, and the installer software told me that I would have to first uninstall my previous version (1.1) of PDF Converter before I could install the upgrade (version 2). Why couldn't they just overwrite the old version?

Also, many upgrades to both Windows and Macintosh programs will install the new version in a separate directory rather than overwriting your old version of the software. I can understand why they might do that (in case you want to revert to the older version), but they should allow you to choose whether to overwrite or save old versions during the upgrade installation. Otherwise you end up with multiple versions of the same program on your machine and you have to remember to do some housekeeping to keep your hard disk from filling up.

05 Nov 2004 | Darrel said...

Adobe is still using that insanely crappy piece of software?

I have a great article called 'Ordering an Adobe font in only 112 steps' that deals with that POS software. I'll see if I can dig it up out of my archives...

05 Nov 2004 | Darrel said...

Found it! This is circa summer/2000. We had a big project due and needed to obtain some font licenses. Also, a correction...it was only 109 steps for me:

Here's a handy tutorial to print out and clip to your monitor. Enjoy!

1) Go to Adobe.com
2) Click on Store
3) Type in the font name
4) Click through all of the results (shown only 10 per page, of course) looking for the font you want
5) Click on the font to see what family it belongs to
5a) if it's the right family, click on it
5b) if it's not, go back, and click on another
5c) repeat 5b until you find the family you want
6) Click on BUY MAC version.
7) Click CONTINUE SHOPPING
8-10) Repeat steps 3-5
11) Click on BUY PC version
12) Click CONTINUE SHOPPING
13) repeat steps 3-12 until you have the fonts you need.
14) Register
15) Enter CC# info
16) Check out
17) Get a server error
18) Click on the back button
19) See a message that your session has timed out and your order canceled.
20) Get upset and call support
21) Listen to the operator tell you that there is no way to order via the phone and that you have to use the web site.
22) Give up for a week or two.
23) Realize that the client still needs the fonts.
24) Go back to the site to order again.
25 - 41) Repeat steps 1-16
42) Click on Download
43) Download some weird installer program.
44) Watch program install, launch, and crash your system.
45) Reboot.
46) Search aimlessly on your hard drive for this weird program. Give up and do a system search.
47) Discover that it is a control panel.
48) Launch control panel.
49) Watch it download half of your order and crash.
50) Reboot
51) Delete the corrupt downloads and try again.
52) See program say "No files to download"
53) Call support
54) Listen to a recording saying that the site will be down for two days. Laugh at the fact that the message is referring to last week.
55) Talk to representative.
56) Argue with the rep when he tells you the order # on your receipt is not a 'real' order number.
57) Finally have the rep find your order by name.
58) Listen to the rep say that he's reset your downloads.
59) Spend a half hour launching and relaunching the weird download app each time having it say 'no files to download.
60) Go home.
61) Sleep.
62) Go back to work
63) Call Adobe.
64) Listen to same outdated message.
65) Sit on hold for 12 minutes.
66) Listen to rep explain that yesterday the entire online database was switched and Adobe forgot to tell half of the support people.
67) Listen to rep say that it is reset and that you should wait 10 minutes and the files should be there.
68) For the next hour, keep launching your downloader in hopes that the rep was actually telling the truth.
69) Call Adobe. Again.
70) Listen to same outdated message.
71) Sit on hold for 10 minutes
72) Tell rep to get rid of that outdated message.
73) Get put on hold again.
74) LIsten to rep say that they are forwarding your problem on to the web department and that I should wait an hour and call back.
75) Wait two hours. Find that you still have a problem.
76) Call Adobe again.
77) Listen to same outdated message.
78) Sit on hold for 4 minutes.
79) give rep your case number from step 74.
80) Get put on hold again.
81) Per Reps instructions, delete the control panel.
82) Reboot
83) Login to Adobe.com
84) See that files are FINALLY reset (progress?)
85) Attempt to download
86) Get a CAN NOT COMPLETE DOWNLOAD BECAUSE SERVER NOT FOUND error.
87) Ask rep why Adobe insists on using this weird downloader program instead of just letting you download from the web site.
88) Have rep reply (with sarcasm) "well, it was supposed to make things easier".
89) Have rep tell you that he'll look into it more and call you back in 10 mintues.
90) Wait one hour for a phone call that never comes.
91) Call Adobe. Again. (hey...the outdated message is gone!)
92) Wait on hold for a minute
93) Give Rep case #
94) Listen to Rep
95) Ask Rep to email you the files instead
96) Listen to Rep tell you 'no problem...we'll get that out to you within 48 hours.'
97) Wait 2 hours
98) Receive email with the Fonts attached.
99) Discover that they only sent you the PC fonts.
100) Call Adobe. Yet Again.
101) Wait on hold for 5 minutes
102) explain situation to rep
103) Have rep explain to you that they don't have any Macs, and, as such, can't send me the mac fonts.
104) Pause for a minute to absorb the absurdity of that statement.
105) Ask them "well, how in the hell am I going to get my fonts?"
106) Give rep your case #
107) Get put on hold.
108) Have rep promise that they will try and get it out to you via email or on disk.
109) Hope it comes.

Done! Wasn't that easy? Remember, for all your easy font-shopping needs, think Adobe!

05 Nov 2004 | Darrel said...

That same day we ordered stock art from CSA and I got to share a few choice emails with those idiots when they refused to allow a return of the product because they failed to clearly explain that they only sell BMP files (no vector).

Damn...this topic brings back painful memories of dealing with graphic design vendors. ;o)

05 Nov 2004 | kev said...

I don't believe an app like InDesign really requires on a technical level you to quit all your apps in order to install itself, and you're talking about MacOS X, I don't believe it can actually do anything that would require it. OS 9 and Windows maybe, but all InDesign can do is put files where they go. No extensions or modifications to the system. Adobe just has its head up its arse about the way the Mac is now architected. Ever use that Photoshop File Browser? The root directory is your "Desktop" only it's not your actualy desktop, it's actually the root of the drive, which is no longer called the "Desktop" on Macs these days. Grrr.

05 Nov 2004 | Jeremy Flint said...

Hey Darrel.

At least the Hold Time decreased with each call.

07 Nov 2004 | Jon S said...

I once tried to Adobe's "easy electronic download" purchase option for Acrobat Pro 6...I can only say that I know what Darrel went through.

Adobe's download application is garbage, luckily I only had to call them twice and the second time they over-nighted a CD to me.

The only good part about the ordeal? They gave me two Acrobat Pro 6 licenses for the price of one (an electronic license/cd key and a boxed copy of Acrobat).

08 Nov 2004 | Darrel said...

To echo Jon's comment, I must say, in the end, Adobe just sent all the fonts to me for free. So they do seem to at least understand customer frustration and are willing to offer something in return.

08 Nov 2004 | ak said...

I've completely abandoned the idea of downloading important software for installation. Too many times the software I download is a) a software downloader app that doesn't let me save a local copy b) the order expires or something gets corrupted c) the amount of frustration and fear of what it's doing to my computer are more costly than waiting 5 days for shipment of a CD

08 Nov 2004 | One of several Steves said...

Apple has been pulling the same thing of making you download an app to download the app you wanted in the first place, at least with QuickTime (and, IIRC, also with iTunes). I don't understand why that's the case. In all cases, it seems to degrade performance much more than just letting you download the .exe or .zip (or .sit or program folder if you're a Mac person).

11 Nov 2004 | Bryan C said...

I despise Adobe Download Manager. Even at best it never works quite right, it's tedious to use, and it's really completely unnecessary. I have no idea why it even exists.

14 Nov 2004 | Marc Stress said...

Jason ::

I'm glad that you posted this here. Hopefully someone in Adobe town will notice. Not only does this completely degrade an otherwise strong perception of Adobe as a professional company _for_ professionals, it implies, assumes, that none of us are capable of handling our own download tasks. As other folks point out, ADM noticeably degrades download performance.

Here's the next topic for discussion Adobe Download Manager is neither Adobe, nor Download, nor a Manager.