Jon 19 Apr 05

Bing!

Andrew 19 Apr 05

Yes, but the change brings Safari in line with Firefox. Consistency is a good thing, even if it takes some retraining.

Dan Boland 19 Apr 05

Aw, really? That totally sucks, I use View Source a lot myself. It reminds me of when Cmd+N changed from creating a new folder to opening a new Finder window.

Josh Williams 19 Apr 05

With some finger trickery though, you can go for the Command and Option keys on the right (left pinky on the U, middle and index picking up the others). And you can keep you right hand on the mouse. Despite the repetitive stress risk, you’ll be fine.

So yeah, basically it sucks.

Aaron 19 Apr 05

Is it just me or is a lot of Ajax/JS type stuff no longer working after the Safari update? Like Google Suggest and Gmail Email Suggest ( http://www.google.com/webhp?complete=1 ) & Tada Lists (when I check an item it doesn’t do the fancy remove like it used to).

Brennen 19 Apr 05

Ajax stuff is being over-aggressively cached, according to this thread, which is not allowing for the subtle, non-reloading updates to occur.

More on this and other Safari 1.3 bugs/features over here:
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/hyatt/archives/2005_04.html#007962

nickd 19 Apr 05

I don’t really care if it’s in line with Firefox; I always had to retrain myself with Firefox, because it ends up becoming a two-handed gesture. Personally, I’d much rather see Firefox catch up with Safari on this one, especially considering so many web developers are reliant on viewing source code.

I’ll wait as long as I can to update Safari. I cringe at the thought of having to remap my fingers like this.

Jeremy Flint 19 Apr 05

That almost ranks right up there with changing the “New Folder” shortcut in finder from Command + N to Shift + Command + N.

Still getting used to that one.

Peter Cooper 19 Apr 05

Judging from all the “how to get around some 10.3.9 problem or other” posts on MacOSXHints, I am certainly not upgrading. It seems like Apple has broken or changed a lot of stuff it didn’t need to. Since Tiger will be turning up on my doorstep in 2 weeks, I think I’ll wait, security vulnerabilities or not..

Dr_God 19 Apr 05

Amen! I thought I was going crazy for a while yesterday. “Why is Safari beeping at me?!”

I’m with you 100%. I can’t stand having to take my right hand off the mouse. So stupid.

Jase 19 Apr 05

Another gripe: right-click an image, and the “Save As” menu item is no longer there. You must now Option-right-click to save something in a folder other than your normal download folder. So what used to be a mouse-only task now requires a trip to the keyboard as well. Sigh.

another Andrew 19 Apr 05

Peter, Safari 2.0 (tiger) uses Opt-Cmd-U too, so upgrading waiting will only delay the inevitable.

Self-retraining is a drag. But you can view source without taking your hand off the mouse. Use the context menu. Works for me.

Apple has also added “Back” to the context menu (which, along with poor CSS suppport, was my longstanding excuse for not switching to Safari…). Only problem is that when “Back” is not available, it’s REMOVED…and “Reload” is moved to the top option. Ugh. And these are the smart UI people…

Dan Boland 19 Apr 05

Apple has also added �Back� to the context menu (which, along with poor CSS suppport, was my longstanding excuse for not switching to Safari�). Only problem is that when �Back� is not available, it�s REMOVED�and �Reload� is moved to the top option. Ugh. And these are the smart UI people�

Poor CSS support? Hmm, my experiences with Safari and CSS are that it’s proven itself to be the best in terms of CSS support and doing exactly what I want it to do, even better than Firefox. Maybe it’s just the way I code and the properties I use.

The Back selection isn’t just grayed out like every other menu selection that doesn’t apply? That makes no sense.

Dan Boland 19 Apr 05

Another gripe: right-click an image, and the �Save As� menu item is no longer there. You must now Option-right-click to save something in a folder other than your normal download folder. So what used to be a mouse-only task now requires a trip to the keyboard as well. Sigh.

Only if you quit using/never used the one-button mouse. =D

P�l 19 Apr 05

And didn’t there use to be a “Save linked file as…” contextual menu item, that’s turned into “Save Linkes File to the Desktop”?

(The +U instead of +V is bugging me as well).

Matthew Oliphant 19 Apr 05

If you don’t want to take your hand off the mouse, just hold the control button and click.

Or use your mouse with your left hand. ;)

Reed Wiedower 19 Apr 05

Um, in Firefox on the PC, there are only two buttons to press (no opt+cmd).

Using three buttons to invoke “view source” is painful, regardless of which key combination it uses.

What happens if you use a two-button mouse? Can you just right-click and hit view-source? That’s my preferred method on PCs.

Jake Walker 19 Apr 05

Yes, Reed. You can right mouse click and View Source on a Mac in Safari.

Megan 19 Apr 05

I’ve never been able to force myself to switch from Mozilla to Firefox/Thunderbird, simply because it’s too annoying to not have ctrl-m = new mail and ctrl-n = new browser window. Am I untrainable at 36? Argh.

BTW - Ryan, could you email me quickly about a quick question when you have a chance at the email address on the link? Thanks very much.

Raymond 19 Apr 05

The view source shortcut has been driving me crazy too.

What’s driving me more crazy is I usually hide my bookmark bar, and show it when needed. And yesterday, it was Command-B. Now it’s Command-Shift-B.

I’m sure Apple has good reasons, but a .9 version seems like the weirdest version to change all this stuff. I think it would be less alarming if it just happened to work that way in Tiger, rather than trying to train us two weeks prior to its launch. Seems kinda weird.

seth 19 Apr 05

What’s the deal with you safari users? I’ve just started playing with it on OSX and I really can’t see many reasons to use it over firefox or even camino.

Maybe it’s just the web developer in me talking, and I’m not thinking like your average OSX user?

What am I missing here?

Jameson 19 Apr 05

Ag! The over-aggressive caching is actually getting worse? I’ve had problems with form fields retaining old data even when refreshing the page with new values - and I managed to avoid tearing my hair out by convincing myself that surely it would be fixed for Tiger. It sounds like they’re going the other way… what a shame. That’s going to break a lot of code far better than mine.

Dan Boland 19 Apr 05

Seth: Speaking for myself, my feelings toward Firefox for OS X is that it’s not quite there yet as a browser. There are still some kinks and rough edges that needs to be ironed out.

For instance, there have been far too many times when Cmd+W doesn’t close the tab I just made for no apparent reason. And there have been at least a dozen instances where I’ve clicked and held on the back arrow to get the longer list of previous pages, only to find that the menu doesn’t go away. Ever. Not until you quit Firefox, at least. And these are version 1 bugs.

That’s not to say that Safari is bug free in its own right, it still has a massive problem with slowdown when updating stylesheets that eventually requires a quit/restart of Safari. For me, when Safari first came out, everything about it was a breath of fresh air.

And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I’ve found that for me, CSS support is better in Safari than in Firefox (though Firefox is a close second and still miles ahead of other browsers).

Kyle 19 Apr 05

Safari seems to be the really hip new kid in town.. he comes to school with brand new clothes, then every day he gets beat up after school. Honestly, while the speed and UI are great - Safari is a pain for webmasters for so many reasons (the main being i’ts just another damned browser to account for).

The view source has always been a pain for me.. why can’t it be cmd + U like Firefox? Why can’t we get one combination for all browsers? Ugh. I hate browsers.

Matt Turner 19 Apr 05

What�s the deal with you safari users? I�ve just started playing with it on OSX and I really can�t see many reasons to use it over firefox or even camino.

Maybe it�s just the web developer in me talking, and I�m not thinking like your average OSX user?

Well as a FireFox user I didn’t want to move to safari… esp with all my bookmarks, no javascript debugging or tabs.

Then when i saw how good it looks in tiger i thought maybe i should try and get used to it.

So i discovered tabs, *phew* then i discovered you can add a debug menu to safari which gives you a javascript console and i was happy!
Just type this line into terminal btw:
defaults write com.apple.safari IncludeDebugMenu 1

So i imported my bookmarks and am happy. Safari has better integration with other OSX features it also seems a little quicker to me. The only time I open up FireFox on my mac now is when I need the awesome web developer toolbar.

Xian 19 Apr 05

The keyboard preference pane lets you reassign any keyboard short cut for any application. Globally or application specific. A couple of clicks and everything thing is back to normal. Heck I just added one for FireFox also as I always forget the cmd-U until the Safari shortcut fails.

Bling!

Peter Flaschner 20 Apr 05

Wow, you all must have really small hands! It’s not that much of a stretch….

I find firefox a bit slower too, but the webdeveloper toolbar has become absolutely indespensible to me. I just love the ability to see any site’s css and make changes to understand how it all works.

kev 20 Apr 05

Jase: Just hit option while the contextual menu is up and watch the options change before your very eyes. Or, if you have the target folder open in the finder, just drag and drop.

RS 20 Apr 05

Rob and others: Thanks for the Keyboard & Mouse preference tip. All better now!

Dr_God 21 Apr 05

Thanks to MacOSXHints.com for a tip on how switch View Source back to command-shift-V!

Just open up your Keyboard & Mouse system pref, click the “+” button, select Safari as the app, and enter “View Source” and command-shift-V as the key combo. Viola!

Just make sure Safari isn’t open when you do this.

Jon 21 Apr 05

No more Bing!

Jeff Werner 22 Apr 05

Similar annoyance I encountered this week with the latest version of Web Developer Tool Bar extension for Firefox (the Windows version, anyways). I swear it used to be crtl-shift-d to turn off all CSS (which I do often to see how sites degrade, and what is CSS and what is not). Now it’s ctrl-shift-s!

I was very embarrased when trying to demonstrate to a client how well-designed CSS formats pages and I had to hunt around for the new command.

Douglas Bowman 22 Apr 05

The View Source switch got me the other day. But what’s been getting me even more is the changed shortcut to switch tabs. Command-Shift-right/left arrow still works *sometimes*, but not all the time, depending on where your cursor is focused. The new shortcut for changing tabs is Command-{/}, which always works. Sigh.

I’m assuming a few of these changes were made not only for consistency with other apps, but also to make room for new shortcuts/features coming in Safari 2.0 (Archive Page, RSS-related stuff, etc.)

Stephen 22 Apr 05

Adobe similarly fudged Photoshop CS. I use keyboard combinations all the time, one of the most frequent being ALT+F, A (for Save As). Having not used a Mac in years I can’t speak for that side, but in just about every Windows app I use, that key combination does the same thing. Well for whatever reason, Adobe saw fit to now tie that combination to *Open As* instead. I’ve been using CS since last summer and I’m still not use to the (in my opinion, foolish) change.

Stephen WG Sullivan 24 Apr 05

It’s actually pretty easy to change a menu item’s keyboard command, for just about any application that I’ve ever tried it with, which is like 2 i think :-)

Go to the Keyboard & Mouse Preference Pane. Select Keyboard Shortcuts tab at the top, click the plus button to add a new command, you need to tell it with the list at the top which application this will be for, then you type in the exact name of the menu item, “View Source”, and then set whatever key command you want.

Make sure to relaunch Safari when you are done. Works for me.