lincoln 28 Aug 06

Golf is a great sport for learning how to become mentally strong and focused, as tiger represents. It also teaches you quite a bit about how to be competitive with yourself, which surprisingly not a lot of men and women have or don�t display enough (that internal drive to take it to the next level). That�s what I like about Tiger: he brings it everyday, even when he was having an off day on Saturday, his body was out of it, but his mind kept him in it. At 28, I never thought I’d play golf, but I’m glad I started.

Andrew Dupont 28 Aug 06

I’m the first one to admit that AD(H)D is overdiagnosed, but please do a bit of research on it before you dismiss it entirely. It’s incredibly easy to have an uninformed opinion about.

k8 28 Aug 06

not all girls need weddings and babysitters dangled in front of them to appreciate a good product, guys. sigh. cheers to the other ladies who were at the open chat.

SH 28 Aug 06

“Give us your perspective�what�s the best way for tech products/companies to reach out to women?”

I think you should consider hiring a woman for your team, or including more women (and non-web savvy women and men) in your preview releases. There’s an intuition there that is probably bested not addressed by simpy guessing what you think the audience might prefer.

Erin 28 Aug 06

I’m with k8. I’m a woman, I use your products all the time, and I use them for the same reasons men do: to keep my job organized. To hear that you use “wedding planning” and “babysitting” examples for your marketing makes me feel like you perceive all women as barefoot and pregnant, rather than as sentient users of your products. :) As an aside, I just planned my own wedding and briefly tracked it on Backpack, before deciding that a computer-based solution wasn’t efficient, since most of the planning happened away from my computer, and entering the details onto my laptop was an extra step I rarely took. This is not to say I don’t love your products for my work - I do - and I think that’s the realm where they’re most useful. I think most women would agree.

Nathan Ostgard 28 Aug 06

The talk about Tiger’s single-minded focus has lovely parallels to simplicity in application design. Do what you can do best at a point in time, and do that only — worry about the noise later on.

Entscheidungsproblem 28 Aug 06

So, first I’ll say that I’m a man. I’d like to discuss software that appeals to women. I don’t get what it would mean for software to “speak women’s language.” What special language do women have that’s being referred to here?

It’s generally believed that Sims games are very popular with women - about 70% of the users are female. Was that especially designed for women? Not that I know of.

Continuing with games, I can see how women are turned off from first-person shooters and other stuff with lots of violence, but this is largely a cultural thing concerning whether it’s appropriate or not for women to engage in aggressive, asssertive behavior (ignore the fact that games like Counterstrike are full of 14 year old pottymouths). Thus, maybe real-time strategy games (which are usually based around control, strategizing, and micromanagement) don’t appeal to women because of cultural norms abotu women being assertive, or in leadership positions. I don’t know.

From a BBC story on the Sims: “The Sims is really a game about relationships - and that’s what girls want - they want relationships, they want to be able to chat.” (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5271852.stm)

Basepack emphasizes communication and collaboration over useless make-work like Gantt charts - maybe that’s why it has a strong female userbase?

Dan Boland 28 Aug 06

My interpretation is that Matt was suggesting that the fact that everyone claims to have ADD is ridiculous (though I can’t speak for him). It certainly seems that the majority of children diagnosed as AD(H)D only suffer from lazy parents who won’t pay attention to them — negative attention is better than no attention, right? Government incentives aren’t helping, either. There’s just no way that six million kids have it.

Lisa 28 Aug 06

Just so you guys know — ADD DID exist 20 years ago. My husband was diagnosed as a child about 35 years ago. Maybe its ADHD that didn’t exist — I don’t know.

Josh Charles 28 Aug 06

ADHD is just a new term for ADD

ADD - Attention Deficit Disorder
ADHD - Attention Deficit and Hyperactivity Disorder

According to the DSM-IV, they are the same thing.

Lisa 28 Aug 06

Thanks, Josh for clearing that up.

Jack Shedd 28 Aug 06

The biggest fan of Backpack you’ll ever meet is my girlfriend. Earlier this year, we had to put together a trip to Europe together. There was a metric ton of little tasks that needed to be done, many of them by me. Flights to arrange, hotel stays, rail tickets, passports, etc etc. Everyday, I’d get a new AIM with an updated list of things we had to do. To ease the pain, I just created a Backpack page that let us sync up and get things done.

Course, now she uses it as her own personal honey-do list manager (as in “honey, please do this”). We have a shared page where she sticks random things she feels I need to get done, notes on how awesome she is, and various products she thinks I may someday want to buy her.

So there’s your market 37signals: “Backpack - how to get your nerd boyfriend to take out the damn trash and remember your birthday”

Jack Shedd 28 Aug 06

I look forward to seeing them “live the brand.” The idea of 15 marketing schmucks living on your couch is irresistibly funny.

Robert Simplicio 28 Aug 06

Matt, thanks for your reply, it helps clarify in my mind how you feel about it, and that’s important to me. I have no doubt that many, many people off-handedly refer to themselves as “ADD” even though they have no clue what it actually is; it’s become sort of a pop-culture excuse for being lazy, and in that regard I totally agree with you guys.

I’m not able to easily find statistics on over-diagnosis of ADD, but I’m absolutely sure it happens. I’m also sure that some people who have it are never diagnosed, and many famous people have been noted to have the disorder.

Matt, the fact that you read the link encourages me, and again, I thank you guys for great things, and for being good human beings who happen to run a kick-ass company that produces kick-ass products.

Des Traynor 28 Aug 06

I agree with Jack Shedd, with maybe less of the comedy.

I only use BackPack Free, but even that is really handy for communicating with my girlfriend. She writes down all the crap that I don’t want to do (e.g. goto blah for dinner party, shopping for holidays, all that shit), so that I don’t forget. As a result I despise visiting the application, but appreciate how it has make things easier relationship wise. Every now and then I hit a zen-like calmness when I check the page and there is nothing there.

k8 28 Aug 06

“What�s the best way for tech products/companies to reach out to women?”

Honestly, I tend to respond poorly when something is marketed specifically to/for women. Or marketed specifically to men, for that matter — both tactics make me a bit suspicious. What I like about what you’ve done so far is that you present a nice balance of different users suiting their own purposes, regardless of girliness (the wedding planning aspect of Backpack didn’t register with me until you mentioned it here — it was just one of several examples that I took in all at once, none of which individually resonated but that overall presented a product that I was keenly interested in trying out, etc.)

I really don’t feel that I speak a separate language — like Erin, I use several of your products, and my organizational and general user-interface needs seem to be the same as many other people’s, male and female. I’ve got my entire office using Backpack and Basecamp for daily organization and project management. We happen to be a mostly female staff (we have one guy), and not once has a gender issue arisen — we all love what you’ve made, and we greatly appreciate that none of it is pink.

The bottom line is that you create well-built foundation products — how people choose to act out any gender-based psychological differences is up to them. I think targeting niche markets (as you’ve done with the wedding industry with Backpack) is probably the most effective way to continue marketing, regardless of gender and without you changing the product to try and cater to the seriously conflicting circus of ideas about “what women want”.

My two (female) cents, anyway.

Hilarie 28 Aug 06

It’d be great if a female *with* ADD posted next.

Nicole 28 Aug 06

The problem as I see it is that, generally speaking, no one can bring up designing for women or marketing to women without a big batch of overly sensitive responses popping up. Only the most brave of heart are going to keep bringing it up — which means the discussion never progresses.

I’m not in the market to create wedding to-do lists, but I’m also not in the market for keeping track of which heat sinks I’ve tried in my non-existent gaming PC. But, the point is that one can use Backpack for either (and anything else).

I’m with k8 — “The bottom line is that you create well-built foundation products � how people choose to act out any gender-based psychological differences is up to them.”

Joe Ruby 28 Aug 06

Regardless of how focussed and good Tiger Woods is, I still think he comes across as a jerk. Phil Mickelson doesn’t. People generally don’t like rooting for jerks, especially in something as pointless and frivolous and vastly over-paid as golf.

Jamis B: Are you aware your web site (www.jamisbuck.org) is MIA?

Anonymous Coward 28 Aug 06

People generally don�t like rooting for jerks, especially in something as pointless and frivolous and vastly over-paid as golf.

Well, Joe, you’re either mistaken or you’re wrong because more golf fans cheer for Tiger woods than any golfer today. They recognize that when he’s playing golf he’s playing golf.

Mathew Patterson 28 Aug 06

Tiger seems like the least jerk-like sports star around - compared to boxing and basketball and athletics stars he is totally mute!

Mike G 28 Aug 06

Tiger is my hero :)

We’ve only had a small taste of how far beyond the pack he really is.

Erin 28 Aug 06

Jason, you’re right, your marketing just reflects the way people are using your products, and doesn’t reflect a bias on your part.

What bothers me - and I apologize, because this is off-topic - is that, if a marketing campaign mentions “wedding planning” or “baby sitting,” then it’s automatically assumed to be marketing to women. But gee whiz, planning a wedding and scheduling a baby sitter are both *direct products* of relationships between men and women. So why, when the ad mentions wedding planning or babysitters, is it intended only for one half of the population who actually have weddings and need babysitters?

Again, as Jason said, that’s just the way it works in this world, and the Backpack marketing just reflects the status quo. But I also believe it’s a reminder that there are still things in this world that we consider - consciously or not - to be “women’s work.”

It’s a problem with no solution.

/hijack

Anon Female 28 Aug 06

“But I also believe it�s a reminder that there are still things in this world that we consider - consciously or not - to be �women�s work.�

Here’s the deal, plain and simple: We all want to believe that “wedding planning and babysitting” is a dual responsibility, but we all know that the majority of the time only one person is doing the bulk of the planning. Recognizing that, marketing to it, pointing it out isn’t the problem, in fact it’s just acknowledging what history has already proven. So get over it.

Second, as far as designing for women vs. men, it’s not a matter of gender equality, nor is it a matter of gender taste or “betterdom”. It’s just appealing to biological instinct. On a very grand scale, nature influences our tastes certainly, but so does biology, so does our intricate innerworkings that dictate what we’re drawn to and what we’re not.

Women always say “Don’t make things pink and purple and market them to us!” But what do women click on when they’re surfing around the internet? What books do they buy when they’re at the airport on a layover? What colors are the mastheads of every major women’s magazine in the US? Pink and purple. Women aren’t drawn to black and flames and reds and silver, so if you want to draw them in, *what would you use*?

Men and women are different. They’re made differently, their needs and tastes are different because they see things entirely differently. They prefer different colors schemes and themes and fonts and pictures. It’s just that simple. Why is this so horrible a fact?

SO GET OVER IT. Stop complaining that companies are being demeaning when they’re really just keenly identifying people’s natural appeals and stop blaming them for sexist disfunction in society, and if it’s so important to you quit perpetuating the cliche by being with a guy who’s not helping you pick out a babysitter FOR GOD’S SAKES!!!

Ben 29 Aug 06

Anon Female: I think the argument is that perhaps the difference is at least partly CREATED by the differing marketing and cultural influences. Of course that hypothesis is rather hard to test. But yeah. I don’t think anyone would argue that on average women click on pink stuff. The only question is why? Some believe it is primarily because women are brought up to click on pink stuff.

Erin: I am currently doing most of the work planning my own wedding right now, with my fiancee advising on design issues that are important to her. But I am doing most of the vendor interaction. And in all cases the vendors start out expecting to talk to her, not me. And when I go places, the invitation shop, the linen rental place, etc, I am the only guy there, except perhaps a bored guy being dragged along unwillingly by his bride to be. The nature/nurture origin of this tendency is of course debatable but that’s the way it is. Weddings are planned by women.

(In fact, I would hazard a guess that weddings are perhaps the single largest market of female-controlled money. If you want to get as much money as you can from women, marketing to people planning weddings would be a good bet. :) (Marketing to men is a bit easier of course. Put a glimpse of a woman’s skin on your product, or your billboard, or your business card, or the bottom of your shoe, and we’ll throw money at you hand over fist. Yay for “biological instinct” :)))

Anon ADDer 29 Aug 06

As has been said, thanks for following up your comments on ADD with some research at that link.

Yes, it’s overdiagnosed, no doubt about it. Medication isn’t any more of a babysitter than Barney or Elmo. But for those of us with the disease, the diagnosis can be an eye opener and a godsend.

Imagine learning something about yourself, about your physical being (because ADD/ADHD is physical, not behavioral), and then having to re-examine your entire life through this new view. Imagine being nearsighted for 25 years, but not realizing it. And then someone gives you glasses.

So, anyway, others have said it all before I got here, but I wanted to thank you for at least acknowledging the disease in the comments, if not in the post.

And, of course, thank you for all you so, etc, etc, BP rocks, yadda yadda yadda, much noodage to all.

JoJo 29 Aug 06

Matt L,

Re: ADD, have yourself tested here: :-)

http://strattera.com/1_4_adult_adhd/screener.jsp

The one diagnosis I think is rediculous is Sudden Wealth Syndrome. They actually have a symptom list on WebMD!

One of my favorites: You feel like you don’t quite deserve the money and you can’t believe it’s really yours.

Please, give me some pills!!!

James McKinney 29 Aug 06

Wally Wood (from your sunspot, “22 panels that always work”) used the word “noodling” to describe anything that broke his motto:

“Never draw anything you can copy, never copy anything you can trace, never trace anything you can cut out and paste up.”

I’m surprised no one caught that.

Bob Satori 31 Aug 06

In regards to Wally Wood’s usage of the word. Wood was a country boy and knew where it came from — his usage of ‘noodling’ in this sense was a variation on “fishing for ideas.” Thus the whole “22 (stock) panels” collection of reusable composition ideas.