Getting Real workshop update Jason 24 May 2006

34 comments Latest by Dan

Less than 25 seats remain for the Getting Real Workshop in Chicago on June 26th. We’ll probably sell these out in a week so if you’re interested in coming you should sign up soon.

I’ll also be speaking at the Collaborative Technologies Conference in Boston on June 22nd (the conference runs from the 19th to the 22nd). You can save 20% on that conference if you enter priority code MLGQCB12. That conference should sell out in a week or so as well so act fast.

34 comments so far (Jump to latest)

Anonymous Coward 24 May 06

What happened to this selling out in a matter of hours? Just like stocks, when the price gets too high the demand will drop.

Dharmesh Shah 24 May 06

Actually, this may be more a function of prior success than it is price.

Those within the 37s network that were really into the “Getting Real” concepts have already been to the workshop, so uptake this time might be a little lower.

Maybe they need to have a “Getting Even Realler” workshop…

JF 24 May 06

What happened to this selling out in a matter of hours? Just like stocks, when the price gets too high the demand will drop.

Sorry to let you down, Anonymous Coward. We’re finished!

Anonymous Coward 24 May 06

You haven’t let me down. I have attended this same workshop and found it to be worth the money (of course, I paid a bit less).

I was just trying to give you some honest feedback. Do with it as you wish.

JF 24 May 06

Anonymous Coward, we’ve never had someone named “Anonymous Coward” attend one of our workshops.

Price isn’t the issue as long as we sell all the tickets. Which we will in about a week. Price may be the issue if we don’t sell all the tickets. Or it could be that it’s on a Monday this time and not on a Friday. Or it could be that there’s another conference that week. Or it could be that summer is slow for conferences and work in general. Or it could be that the book has cannibalized some of the workshop seats. Or it could be..

It could be a lot of things, but price is the least likely especially since we will sell out.

Matt Dempsey 24 May 06

I would also imagine that the release of the Getting Real book means that so many people have read that, they feel they don’t need to spend hundreds of dollars on a workshop. Just a thought.

Matt

Anonymous Coward 24 May 06

Jason- My real name is Alan De Keyrel and I paid for two seats to your Janurary 27th workshop. Feel free to look it up if you’d like or I can send you a copy of my credit card statement.

I did not say that you would not sell all the seats. My only comment was that they did not sell in a matter of hours (as before).

In any event, thanks for bashing a loyal customer.

ML 24 May 06

What happened to this selling out in a matter of hours?

If we’re talking strictly supply and demand, selling out in hours is a sign of pricing something too low vs. market demand. Wouldn’t the “ideal” price point would be one that results in a just-in-time sell out?

JF 24 May 06

thanks for bashing a loyal customer.

Bashing? Where was that? You didn’t post your name so I was having a little fun calling you Anonymous Coward. Lighten up man.

My only comment was that they did not sell in a matter of hours (as before).

That wasn’t your comment. Your comment was “What happened to this selling out in a matter of hours? Just like stocks, when the price gets too high the demand will drop.” Your comment was about the price being too high. And we responded as to why we don’t believe it was.

Again, if we sell out then the price isn’t too high. In fact, you could make an argument that the price was too low before if we sold out so quickly. I’m venture to guess the current price is just right.

Walker Hamilton 24 May 06

Offtopic…kinda, but I am contracting at this medical web application company and I heard someone use your company name as a verb the other day.

Matt Dempsey 24 May 06

Sorry Jason made my point before I did. And Matt has a great point to be honest. Up the prices! lol.

JF 24 May 06

Walker, tell us more! How so?

Walker Hamilton 24 May 06

…ummm…okay, so if this use turns out not to be verb but something else, don’t tell my grammar teacher.

We were looking at the things that needed to show up on a page of saved reports (saved reports are reports that already have their options specified, this way they can be rerun easily using up to date data.)

So we were looking at what was needed within this feature and I was told “Just 37signals this.” Yes, I now charge a premium when asked to design as if I was 37 signals. Otherwise, I charge _less_. ;)

Alan De Keyrel 24 May 06

Likewise, I was poking fun at the fact that it has not sold out in a matter of hours (as the advertisements indicated it may). You guys have to admit that you *thought* it would continue to sell out quickly or you would not have promoted it that way.

Let’s just call it even with no harm done. I have to get some work done. :)

Luis 24 May 06

I’d love to go, but the price is, ahem, a bit steep for me.
Any free transcripts available?

:)

J 24 May 06

Alan you said 37signals was bashing a loyal customer (which they weren’t). That’s not “poking fun”. Don’t change your story. You were being a dick.

Alan De Keyrel 24 May 06

You’re right… the original post was a bit dickish. I like the guys at 37s, so my intent is to challenge them to think about why this change has ocurred. JF brought up several things it could be… and they are smart folks so I think they will adjust accordingly.

I’d still argue price is a major one, even though he thinks it is not. I know that I would send additional employees to the workshop if it were priced lower. Just my 2 cents. I’ll keep them to myself from now on. :)

Nick 24 May 06

From a business-owner standpoint, it’s interesting to watch this same discussion happen every time the workshop is mentioned on the blog.

Commenter: “It’s too expensive”
DHH: “It sells out every time, so it must not be too expensive. in fact, based on the law of supply and demand, we should price it higher.”

…and so on…

The supply and demand talk from 37s is particularly funny, because they seem to be saying we should thank them for not raising the price more than they already have.

37s, this is an expensive workshop. Hummers are expensive cars. You can argue about value and all that, but it doesn’t change that it’s expensive. Just accept it. Some people will see the value and some won’t.

Look, we all understand the whole supply and demand lecture. We get it. I won’t try to speak for all your readers, but it’s unsavory to me to hear you cry “supply and demand” when someone complains about the price. It’s like you’re laughing at his or her inability to come up with $900. “We’re sorry, but economics says you’re too poor!”

That is the response of a company who charges more just to charge more. I don’t think 37s is that kind of company (at least, I hope it isn’t), but that’s the impression I get from the constant defense against the commenters’ complaints. My hope is that 37s is the kind of company that raises its price only if it has to.

In the spirit of being open with its readers, if there’s a good reason to raise the price, 37s should just say so and tell us why.

JF 24 May 06

Look, we all understand the whole supply and demand lecture. We get it. I won’t try to speak for all your readers, but it’s unsavory to me to hear you cry “supply and demand” when someone complains about the price. It’s like you’re laughing at his or her inability to come up with $900. “We’re sorry, but economics says you’re too poor!”

What? We’re not laughing at anyone or suggesting anyone is poor. We recognize $900 is $900 and $900 is a lot of money. But that’s the price of the workshop. That’s where we think the market price has settled at this point. If you can’t afford it we completely understand. That’s another reason why we released a book for $19 so you can get some level of this information at a price everyone can afford.

Anonymous Coward 24 May 06

Why does everyone expect 37s to have to justify everything they do and every price they charge? It’s their business, their prices, their products. Leave them alone about this, jesus. Do you have to constantly justify your prices to everyone you talk to? It’s redic to ask any company to constantly do this.

Nick 24 May 06

We’re not laughing at anyone or suggesting anyone is poor.

Obviously you aren’t sitting in your office actually laughing at people. And as you know, I bought the book. Thanks for helping me get the download, by the way. I’ve enjoyed what I’ve read so far.

Let me say what I’m trying to get at in a different way. For me at least, it feels like your appeals to supply and demand and saying things like “That’s where we think the market price has settled” is equivocal to saying “We’ll raise the price as high as we can. Why? Because fuck ‘em, that’s why.”

If your response to commenters’ complaints about the price was something more like, “This is the price we have to charge in order for the workshop to be worth our time and effort,” then I think people would take it as less arrogant (though I know you guys don’t care if anyone thinks you’re arrogant…)

I’m not saying raising the price due to demand isn’t a valid and accepted way to do business (after all, I pay $3/gallon for gas). I’m just saying, your argument doesn’t sit well with at least a few readers (and probably more who just don’t care to comment. Maybe the right move is to just let them troll and move on with your day.

Anonymous Coward 24 May 06

@ AC

Uh, aren’t you the one that started all this?

37s is the company who says they will try to show us what it’s like to run their business. I’m not demanding that they show me anything about their pricing. I’m not attending the workshop either way.

In the end, my comments are simply about how their response might be perceived.

Nick 24 May 06

Odd. I forgot to put in my name when I posted and the site deleted AC’s comment and put mine in under his name.

DHH 24 May 06

Economics 101 certainly has a long history of rubbing people the wrong way. Thus, many companies sugar coat that “the right price is what people are willing to pay” with all kinds of funky schemes.

So if you’re into sugar coating, please feel free to pick one of the following flavors:

* A high price ensures that only people who really want to be there come (the gatekeeper argument)

* Paying top dollar for advice makes it more likely that this advice is followed (the influence argument)

* Making money off the workshop instills us to believe that continuing to put a lot of time into writing this blog is a good idea (the subsidize argument)

* Being able to charge “big money” for workshops raises the brand standing of 37signals, which makes even the advice we give away for free seem more valuable (combination of the influence and subsidize arguments)

(I made all four up on the spot, they may or may not represent reality, but who cares, we’re just looking for a feel-good sugar coating of Economics 101).

JF 24 May 06

Let me say what I’m trying to get at in a different way. For me at least, it feels like your appeals to supply and demand and saying things like “That’s where we think the market price has settled” is equivocal to saying “We’ll raise the price as high as we can. Why? Because fuck ‘em, that’s why.”

Wow. I’ll bow out of this at this point.

I’ve been open and honest about our pricing (we think this is a fair market price and people seem to agree since we’re selling the tickets and people who attend overwhelmingly rate the workshop as time and money well spent) and you think we’re doing this to say “fuck ‘em” to people who want to attend. That’s amazing.

Nick 24 May 06

JF, when I say “tell us why” I’m asking why go the fair market price route versus another route (one possible avenue is it costs us $X per person, so we’ll charge that plus 15%). Just a question about why 37s chooses one way versus another. Sorry I drove you off.

Brad M 24 May 06

Hi, Jason I emailed (I believe minutes) before you posted the original blog entry about the new conference.

I read the ‘what will I learn’ etc, but I was curious as to how what are some of the things that would be covered in the Workshop that are not already in the book. The book is easy to read and states the point without all the ‘bloat’ of other books. Is there an agenda for the workshop online? Sorry if I missed already.

Honestly, I was a little surprised at the price, but like DHH stated above “Being able to charge ‘big money’…workshops raises the brand standing of 37signals…” hits it on mark! I feel that this may be worth it to my company and if so I’m willing to pay for it. My only problem is, what am I exactly paying for here?

Lastly, kudos on making the workshop on the Monday after the Rails Conf! Kill 2 birds with 1 stone! Now I may go to both!

Mike G 24 May 06

Let’s not forget *value* in this equation. Even if it cost $.50 to hold the conference, it still may be fair to charge $900. The only question that needs to be answered is: Is the information worth $900?

If I was given the opportunity to attend a 15-second conference in a Burger King bathroom in which I would be told the secret to earning $ 10 million in a single day with no effort…you bet your ass I’d pay $100k to attend :)

JF 24 May 06

Brad M, the agenda is general: “From concepting to building a team to design to development to launch to marketing to support, you’ll learn everything we’ve learned to make the Getting Real methodology so successful.”

Much of this is covered in the book, but the book and the workshop are presented in considerably different ways and in considerably different depth. The workshop digs much deeper into specific areas such as design, code, keeping things simple, and promotion. Plus at the workshop you can have your direct questions answered.

Dan Boland 24 May 06

Why does everyone expect 37s to have to justify everything they do and every price they charge? It’s their business, their prices, their products. Leave them alone about this, jesus. Do you have to constantly justify your prices to everyone you talk to? It’s redic to ask any company to constantly do this.

My thoughts exactly.

ML 24 May 06

when I say “tell us why” I’m asking why go the fair market price route versus another route

There was no lengthy debate about possible pricing formulas. We figured the fair market price route was, well, fair. So we went with it. If you want after-the-fact justifications, see DHH’s post above.

Nick 24 May 06

Thanks, Matt

Joel 24 May 06

Wow, It is always a pleasure to see heated up J.

Dan 05 Jun 06

Why not offer a podcast of the workshop at a discounted price (Could be like the second coming of the KISS live album, but for the Ruby community)? Say $50.00 - sure we would miss the visuals, slides and ability to have a Q/A session, but at least those who can’t afford the travel or convince the boss of the worthiness of such a workshop can still listen in.

$50.00 for a 8 hour podcast - sounds good to me.

Just an idea.

Post a comment

(Basic HTML is allowed)

NOTE: We'd rather not moderate, but off-topic, blatantly inflammatory, or otherwise inappropriate or vapid comments may be removed. Repeat offenders will be banned from commenting. Let's add value. Thank you.