Jobs Boards: A shotgun or a rifle? - Signal vs. Noise (by 37signals)

Jobs Boards: A shotgun or a rifle? Jason 28 Aug 2006

35 comments Latest by Evan

Michael Arrington misses the point about all the targeted job boards popping up lately.

I don’t want to have my own garden, a sort of mini monster.com. I want to be a part of an ecosystem. There’s no way we can compete with the big job boards fighting individual battles. We need to partner, create a distributed system, and win virally.

He wants to mass jobs together and dilute the ads and audiences. That’s not how you compete with Monster, it’s how Monster beats you.

We’d rather focus on a specific audience instead of trying to be all things to all people. Like the “Why the 37signals Job Board?” says:

Most job boards are a crap shoot. You post an ad and face an email deluge from unqualified applicants. If you like collecting resumes, that’s fine. If you actually want to hire someone, it sucks.

The problem with huge job boards like Monster or the aggregation that Arrington envisions: There are too many ads. It’s a shotgun approach. If you want to hire just anyone, that will work. But if you want to hire the right person then you’ll need to do something different to reach that person. You need to hang out where they hang out. You need to like what they like. You need to aim accurately. Throw away the shutgun and strap on the rifle.

Targeted individual job boards work because they speak to specific audiences. We’re picky about which sites are part of our Job Board network (Signal vs. Noise, Zeldman.com, A List Apart, and the Ruby on Rails Weblog). The people who read these sites care about beautiful code and beautiful design. If you care about these things — and you want to reach people who care about these things — then you post a job on our job board.

If you want to reach executives interested in broadband, wireless, and technology, you post on the GigaOm Jobs board. If you want to reach someone interested in new company/product launches and the other stuff that is posted on TechCrunch, you post on the CrunchBoard. Yes, there’s some overlap between those audiences. But there are also significant differences.

Remember, where you post your job says a lot about your company and the kind of people you want to attract. If you want to toss your job in front of anyone and everyone, post it at Monster.com. If you want to place your job carefully and in front of the right people who care what you care about, then post it on the job board that most accurately reflects your company’s attitude/approach.

35 comments so far (Jump to latest)

Dan Boland 28 Aug 06

I agree with you on this. It’s weird reading commenters on the linked post talk about what a pain it is to search multiple, separate, focused job boards. Ever heard of a feed reader?

The savvier web users aren’t using Monster anyway for the reasons you point out in your post. Focused job boards are a lot more helpful for both parties.

frum social networking 28 Aug 06

I agree with you 100%, I think you just beat Arrington to the punch. I do think there is a lot of overlap, but that is why we have RSS readers so we the users can combine all of the ads into one area.

I think however Arrington has a great idea to take on monster.com by having a decentralized job board. I have never had any luck with Monster, but I have had a luck with small localized niche classified ad sites.

Regarding the “walled garden” comment, I don’t really understand this. What makes any site like techcrunch or any blog less of a walled garden. I can’t post articles on it, it does have an RSS feed, but so do the job boards.

Rob H 28 Aug 06

I have to agree with you on this Jason. Job boards of the like of Monster and Careerbuilder.com, etc, are the dumping grounds of jobs. A majority of the postings are from staffing agencies and recruiters, who quite frankly have no clue about spotting a qualified applicant, except when the resume reads like the job description or has all the key words. And on top of it alot of big companies, make you jump through hoops to apply for the job. Like the dreaded Brasssring screening service…good luck getting your resume in the hands of the hiring manager. I think if company thinks that a screening tool is going to find them a qualified person than good luck. And it also says alot about the company too. If they are not willing to take the time to review the resumes or at least have someone that does, than don’t bother working for that company. All I ask for an email address to send my resume. Is that too much to ask for?

Thank God for the targeted job boards like 37signals.

Just like people don’t like automated phone systems, why not afford people the same right to have their resume reviewed by a human.

Alexander Schearer 28 Aug 06

I think it is worth mentioning that the job boards described in this post are not for just any targeted audience. I won’t advocate shapeless job boards here, but I will point out that it is one thing to create niche communities for groups that can find them on the web — such as web developers — and another thing to create niches for groups which will not.
All the examples listed seem to work in the direction that the entry was going in, but if you take jobs that are more divorced from the internet, say something in the retail industry, you might find that niche audiences never find their communities; on the other hand Monster.com et al are very visible to even those who have little internet literacy.

beth 28 Aug 06

There are also distinct advantages to persons seeking employment using a targeted job board. My inbox is innundated daily with crap from Monster.com and Careerbuilder. What does web design have in common with help desk, sports management and ad exec? I don’t want to waste my time sifting through all this junk in the hopes there’s one listing that actually fits my search description.

Additionally I subscribe to Sologig which is geared at freelancers, but I always get crap for temp work. Freelance and temp are entirely different. I don’t want to go work at your agency for two months and maybe you’ll hire me, I want to work from my house!

Lastly, there aren’t clearn lines in the major job search players between web designer and web developer. No, I do not know J2EE.

Scott Teger 28 Aug 06

We’re going through a mini-hiring phase now trying to find an OO PHP developer and we’re avoiding the major boards at all costs.

Monster.com is playing the numbers game. In my experience, we’ve probably posted 15 jobs on Monster.com, received probably close to 1000 applications, and found NOT ONE qualified person. I’m sure it works for someone, because they are around and profitable, but it seems when you’re looking for a position that requires talent (not just knowing how to do something), its the wrong place.

From the targetted job boards, you get much much less applicants, but just the fact that they are on that job board instead of Monster prequalifies them. From there, its up to your post and a little bit of timing luck that you find the right person! We cross our fingers when we post but at least we know we wont have to waste time with unqualified applicants who click the “apply for selected jobs” button on Monster after just checking a bunch of checkboxes by title.

Jim 28 Aug 06

Does 37sig ever plan on allowing individuals looking for a job to post their resume? If someone paid the $250, would you have beef with them putting a “hire me” ad up?

Geof Harries 28 Aug 06

In actuality, no open API or collaboration is needed.

Simply go guerilla and grab all of the RSS feeds from each job board, then re-publish them at a unique location.

Jack Shedd 28 Aug 06

To date, the best way I’ve found to hire great people is to ask around amongst friends, and grab the right candidates when they’re available (not nessecarily when you need them).

scott brooks 28 Aug 06

It is interesting. I like the idea of the 37s hire board. It draws the type of people i would like to hire. It is a specific group. Some of the other boards are wider audience so you get a diluted sampling.

We seem to be going back to the audience specific job ads. In canada if you were looking for a CEO/Exectuive you used to post in the Globe and Mail ….you were garunteed a certain type of person just based upon the readership. Mid level jobs would be found in the toronto star, a large readership but very fragmented audience.

So depending on the type of person you would post in the specific publication. This automatically weeds out the “shouldn’t be there”

WE seem to be getting back to that mentality but in a electronic format. Monster and all the others are the mass market …..be prepared to get lots of resumes …and weed alot out.

Personally i will stick to 3 partners and outsource everything i would hire for. much easier to switch a service provider then an employee ….

cheers

scott

Eric Allam 28 Aug 06

“Win Virally”

Hasn’t anyone figured out yet that the moment you say your product is “viral” it instantly isn’t anymore. Remember the subway Agency.com fiasco? Anyone?

Eazy-E 28 Aug 06

Uh, don’t you mean “pick up” the rifle?

Karl Guertin 28 Aug 06

I got my current job through a blog post that went to planet python. I’ve been unimpressed by the jobs available on the larger sites, as a job hunter I did most of my searching on craigslist and ignored everything with “Java” or “.NET”.

Used It 28 Aug 06

Here’s the funny part, the resumes we’ve received from our 37Signals job board post for a graphic designer were equally as terrible as the stuff from Monster & CB. We have a very active HR department and know how to recruit.

To agree & expand with Jack Shedd’s comment: the only way to really hire good candidates is through referral, head-hunting, or personal contact.

ANY online job board is a crap shoot. Period, we’ve tested them all.

Walker Hamilton 28 Aug 06

I dunno. Sometimes I’d rather have “the shotgun”:http://youtube.com/watch?v=s13Y7SKrFls.

JF 28 Aug 06

To agree & expand with Jack Shedd�s comment: the only way to really hire good candidates is through referral, head-hunting, or personal contact. ANY online job board is a crap shoot. Period, we�ve tested them all.

The best way to find someone is definitely via referral or personal contact, but we’re trying to increase your odds if you do need to look beyond the people you know and the people they know.

adam 28 Aug 06

int googleRank = Google.GetRanking(“job board”);
while (googleRank > 1)
{
BlogPost jobBlog = new BlogPost(“job board”, bodyText);
jobBlog.Post();
googleRank = Google.GetRanking(“job board”);
}

By the way, my prior post is in good fun.
You guys obviously know what you are doing.
Keep it up!

Most job seekers are smart enough to look in multiple places to find a position. No one would or should stop at the 37signals Job board, only applying to postings there. When you need work, you’re going to pursue every possible avenue. As an employer, the benefits of such a board are unclear.

However, there is a clear benefit to candidates for niche job boards.

Would you rather work for a fan of 37signals or a fan of Monster.com? All things being equal, which offer do you accept?

Ryan 28 Aug 06

A lot of you here are missing the point about job boards. The main difference between Monster.com and any Web 2.0 job board is simply a factor of size and searchability.

Size: What if I created a brand new Monster.com and combined all the listings of all of these new niche boards. Would it be big, yes. Would there be a lot more applications, yes. Why? Because more people are looking at it. The only reason these watercooler job boards are any different is that they hope and assume that only the perfectly suited smart young executive types will find it and apply. Just because I have a web 2.0 type company and read 37signals stuff does that mean all my employees would or even need to? If my company jobs have 20 different niches do I need to post to 20 nifferent nich job portals? That doesn’t make sense. The moment these places become any larger they will get flooded with junk applications like anywhere else.

Searchability: The real problem is the process of the large job boards. What if it had a better search function to find the exact person or job I wanted, or what if it had a better matching system that only allowed applications from users who answered certain questions in the correct manner that meet your hiring criteria or what if it charged an application fee to limit applications to serious professionals then maybe the Monster.com’s would fare better.

All these seperated job boards do is create an even tougher problem of finding available jobs. Why not just create a checklist where aplicants pick what web blogs they like which automatically screens what jobs they see. That would do the same thing as any of these seperate blog job posts.

The shotgun approach is only applicable if you can’t narrow the field. If you had a true search function you could have every job post in the world with every resume in the world but applicants would be able to find a job for Company X, in Location Y, with requirements Z and employers could find executives with certifications X, education Y, and experience Z, that like to read Signal vs Noise and Techcrunch. That would be more than a rifle that would be a sniper rifle.

The real problem comes down to execution of the problem rather than the actual amount of jobs or number of applicants. Its just like Ebay. If you have a store with a niche product you don’t hide on your corner of the web hoping someone will find you, you submit it to the Ebay world so everyone can find it, because the system is set up efficiently to find you a buyer. If any of the big companies actually ran the job product the way it could be run, all the niche portals would be without a place in the market.

The bottom line comes down to a matching a company and job with a person and qualifications. If you have s system set up to match them correctly it will work to share. What you suggest is like the Realtors hording their personal MLS listings and not allowing others to find their set of homes hoping that the right person comes to their website instead of sharing MLS information and having all home buyers see all the houses. If the buyer is qualified and wants to house they can get it.

What Mike wants is the Edgeio.com of blog job postings, where you can post your jobs on your blog but everyone elsewhere will be able to see it. That is still the future and I believe those that don’t share info will be left behind.

Ryan - bang on!

Tech job boards as listed: step out of your personal vacuums and come to terms with how most job seekers search, locate and then apply for positions.

Monster has the volume but not the quality. All of these new niche boards have the quality but not the volume.

Look for the mid-point. There’s your opportunity.

clofresh 28 Aug 06

We need to partner, create a distributed system, and win virally.

Ugh, that sentence just made me throw up a little in my mouth. I never liked Arrington. He just don’t get it, saying things like the above statement, or “Flickr missed the boat on internet video” or “Google Apps is striking hard at Microsoft’s revenue stream.”

Dave 28 Aug 06

Fron the article:
“I don�t want to have my own garden… I want to be a part of an ecosystem.”

Are you crazy? Who in their right mind wouldn’t want their own garden?

A personal garden or community farm is MUCH more “a part of the ecosystem” than a corporate-run factory farm.

Candidates and prospective employees found on community-driven (craigslist) and small, targeted job sites (jobs.37signals.com) seem much more “healthy” than the junk found on Monster.

chrispian 28 Aug 06

Friday night I wipped up something like some have suggested here. I sent an email to all the boards mentioned to make sure it was okay to aggregate their RSS feeds (Still waiting for a reply from all 4 boards). Michael’s article is what sparked my idea and I forwarded it along to all the job board owners too. I threw together webjobby.com as proof of concept around the idea Micheal did. It’s just grabs and caches the RSS feeds for now. I didn’t want to go any further until the job board owners had a chance to have their say. I think I know 37s’s position on the matter now ;)

chrispian, of course you can post our RSS feed as long as you don’t do it for commercial purposes. For example, you can’t sell access to the RSS feed or put ads around the RSS feed. But if you just want to display the job ads then you can.

Jason, excellent. Yeah, I have no plans on charging or that kind of thing. I don’t even use the descriptions, the listings simply go right to the job page on your site. It was just a fun little project to throw together. Thanks for the ok and you need anything changed or the situation changes, you know how to get ahold of me.

Mathew Patterson 29 Aug 06

Now that all the decent job boards have rss feeds, I can aggregate them myself if I want to.

Thibaut Allender 29 Aug 06

And will you use a shotgun or a rifle to kill Michael ? ;-)

Joshua Porter 29 Aug 06

Jason, do you ever turn down job postings because you’re too picky to subject them to your audience? If they are too much like something to be posted to GigaOm or Techcrunch?

Seems to me that the pickiness should be practiced at both ends, if one were truly picky.

Nathan Jones 29 Aug 06

Although I’m not a professional web developer/designer/etc, I love the 37s job board because of the one paragraph descriptions. By contrast, -internal- assignment briefs where I work tend to be a multipage templates with just a little customisation.

Of course you want someone with 3 years’ experience and all the same skills listed on every other assignment brief, but what is the role about? What will I be expected to do in the role? How do you expected to get appropriate people if the only Real substance is the title? Rant over…

Evan 21 Sep 06

“kind[s] of people”