FineJames 18 Jul 05

Murdoch owns a ton of left-leaning hipster-haven properties….that actually make him more money than Fox News does…..so this is just one more on that stack, dude

Tom 18 Jul 05

Care to give some examples James?

dmr 18 Jul 05

Here’s a rundown of NewsCorp properties per 2001

ay 18 Jul 05

Intermix to play a role in this: http://www.newscorp.com/news/news_250.html ???

Kari 18 Jul 05

Congratulations, you’ve just alienated at least one potential (well paying) client. Doesn’t this post belong on a personal blog instead?

Colin 18 Jul 05

Lighten up! To recognize irony is not the same as making a wide-sweeping political statement. Honestly, there is no separation of personality from work so what is the point of posting on a separate blog? It is the same person supporting you. If you object to their personal opinions so vehemently, why would you want to support them? Their products are the outcome of their personality and beliefs.

Umm 18 Jul 05

Kari, I don’t see this post as a political opinion at all, it’s just stating who bought who and which side each party is on.

ffub 18 Jul 05

I quite disagree with Colin’s statement that the two shouldn’t and can’t be seperated. My politics would put off a lot clients and employers if I wore them to work. I’m not left wing. I work in publishing. Gah.

However, to reply to Kari - this post isn’t actually political, just pointing out the supposed difference of the site and it’s new owner. Also, the first text on the page does say, “…a weblog by 37signals about design, customer experience, entertainment, politics, Basecamp, Backpack, products we like, small business, ourselves, and more.” So it wouldn’t really be better on another blog anyway, seeing as they warned you. ;)

Christopher Fahey 18 Jul 05

Apparently you’re not even allowed to talk about the very existence of politics without pissing someone off!

djpr 18 Jul 05

In reply to Umm 18 et al, particularlly this: “However, to reply to Kari - this post isn�t actually political, just pointing out the supposed difference of the site and it�s new owner.”

I disagree, the title of the blog post reads “There goes the neighborhood” implying that somehow evil FoxNews Murdoch will destorying a “haven” for left-leaning hipsters. It is a political statement. As if, Murdoch cares more about controling the political discourse of some 18 year old freshman college blogger over hard cash and profit.

But regardless of this, as ffub notes - this is a blog that covers politics - even if the commentary is neither helpful nor insightful and we should respect that. In orther words, if you dont like this blog, why are you reading it?

Cheers Folks

Dan Hartung 18 Jul 05

Kari’s right — I think NewsCorp just deleted all their tadalists. Very ill-advised move.

Alex King 18 Jul 05

This is Signal vs. Noise, a weblog by 37signals about design, customer experience, entertainment, politics, Basecamp, products we like, small business, ourselves, and more. Established 1999 in Chicago.

Did someone say we were supposed to agree on politics? That wouldn’t be much fun.

Justin 18 Jul 05

No, Dan. Keri’s response is juvenile. “Alienated”?! Please. “Doesn�t this post belong on a personal blog instead?” That is, “Mommy make the bad man stop!”

Remember when Sweetchuck stumbles into the Blue Oyster Bar in Police Academy? The large, leather-clad man that takes him as a dance partner? Wackiness. Like Murdoch running MySpace.

Laugh — it’s funny. Even for conservatives.

Drew 18 Jul 05

I think it’s funny they just wasted $580 million on that disaster of a website.

Art Wells 18 Jul 05

What, exactly, should a client expect from content that is expressly (at least partially) political? Would it be wise to expect objectivity here? What should a client do with an idea they disagree with?

Even if this wasn’t intended, a little offense sometimes helps. I’ve found that doing a small amount of provocation to offend the hair-trigger client can serve as a great filter to scare off jobs that are more trouble than they are worth. Not that you want a client that agrees with you, but you want to avoid clients that have no skills to work through disagreements or understand what is required to do a job—these never lead to happiness for either party.

No offense intended, of course.

Wesley Walser 18 Jul 05

(echo ($comment_drew));

agreed!

Brian Behrend 18 Jul 05

I’ll be a happy man when MySpace goes belly up. In my (limited) experience it’s home to morons who need a blog but don’t know about LJ or Blogger, and who like to use HUGE jpg’s as repeating page backgrounds. Oh, and they’re some hotlinking SOB’s too. So far this month, there have been over 44,004 (unsuccesful) attempts from MySpace profiles to hotlink one of my images. Arghh….

matthew 19 Jul 05

myspace does do some serious suckage in the application department. they seem to be going through some scalability issues or something because it does a server error on a daily basis for moi.

hey, a thought for the ajax people. what about a little + or - next to each comment so i could just expand/contract each comment as i read them. it would help me skip all the political threadjackers.

Anonymous Coward 19 Jul 05

37signals just lost a client? Aren’t they the guys who preach about being picky in choosing customers? Call it a woman’s intuition, but I don’t think they would have picked someone so obviously fickle as Kari.

Bob Aman 19 Jul 05

Amusingly enough, I couldn’t be happier that this happened. I just hope they maintain their painfully uninspired design. It makes competition easier. :-)

Dan Boland 19 Jul 05

Congratulations, you�ve just alienated at least one potential (well paying) client. Doesn�t this post belong on a personal blog instead?

Whenever I see a post like this, my first thought is always of a bored person who never intended to become a client who just wants to stir the pot.

Rupert Murdoch�s News Corp., home to conservative-friendly Fox News

I always find it interesting how “conservative,” “right-wing,” or “Republican” in some form always precedes or follows Fox News Channel, but “liberal,” “left-wing,” or “Democrat” almost never accompanies CNN, even though it’s just as true as the label Fox News gets. Is one form of media bias better than another?

ML 19 Jul 05

Hmm…either I phrased this poorly or some people are a bit too sensitive.

It is a political statement.

“There goes the neighborhood?” has a question mark which makes it a query rather than a statement.

Remember when Sweetchuck stumbles into the Blue Oyster Bar in Police Academy? The large, leather-clad man that takes him as a dance partner? Wackiness. Like Murdoch running MySpace.

I was seeing it more as a Nick Nolte-Martin Lawrence buddy cop movie — y’know the grizzled veteran paired with the zany upstart. Viva wacky.

Don Wilson 19 Jul 05

You suggest that Fox News is ‘conservative friendly’? Ha!

kalin 19 Jul 05

FineJames commented on this above, but it’s probably worth stating that News Corp subsidiary ReganBooks also publishes Michael Moore’s books. Gross political bias is profitable either way.

Christopher Fahey 19 Jul 05

Dan, with the exception of the “Fair and Balanced” tag line, Fox does not even pretend to be non-partisan. Top leadership at Fox are fairly open and honest about the fact that their news channel is unique in that it specifically promotes a Republican political agenda. They boast of this fact fairly openly, and in fact this open focus gives them access to some news sources that would not otherwise be available to “non-partisan” news providers. They self-identify the channel and the vast majority of their on-air personalities as “Republican”, “right wing”, and “conservative” on a regular basis, and their internal memos and policies are right in line with that deliberate agenda.

This is very different from CNN, etc, who, depending on how you look at it, either have a real non-partisan policy or simply pretend to have one. Whether or not the rest of the media is partisan is immaterial to the question of whether or not Fox is partisan: Either way, there’s nothing unfair about calling Fox what they already call themselves.

Anyway, the reality is that Fox isn’t even really conservative, not by the traditional definition. They’re Republican. Two entirely different things, these days.

Note that there is nothing whatsoever wrong with a partisan press.

-Cf

Christopher Fahey 19 Jul 05

Oh, and Fox isn’t the only news source that gets labelled with a political adjective. Air America is usually identified as liberal. As is The Nation, Harpers, Mother Jones, The New Yorker, The Village Voice, The New Republic, and many other news sources whose editorial policy is explicitly and consistently liberal or left-leaning.

-Cf

Jeff Martin 19 Jul 05

Sometimes it is wise to withhold political opinions from clients, like the time I designed a website for a local union.

Darrel 19 Jul 05

I always find it interesting how �conservative,� �right-wing,� or �Republican� in some form always precedes or follows Fox News Channel, but �liberal,� �left-wing,� or �Democrat� almost never accompanies CNN, even though it�s just as true as the label Fox News gets.

Just saying it is ‘as true’ does not make it so.

Darrel 19 Jul 05

Anyway, the reality is that Fox isn�t even really conservative, not by the traditional definition. They�re Republican.

Or, more specifically, Bush/Rovian.

And I don’t think Murdoch has a political agenda outside of him making more and more money. I’m sure he supports whatever is bringing in the money at any given time.

Will 19 Jul 05

I love watching people come on here and complain because someone at 37signals has expressed a political view, or, even better, incorrectly assumed someone at 37signals expressed a political view, and then the reader acts like SVN really shouldn’t be doing that unless they want to lose business.

Ooooooh, I bet they’re shaking in their freedom-hating boots!!!

The fact that 37signals seems to have pretty much gone internal for work not withstanding, they’ve also stated before that they’re not interested in working with clients that don’t appeal to them. And far be it from me to assume that a potential client who gets upset because you don’t agree on matters of opinion is an appealing client.

When it’s YOUR site, Kari, you can dictate what the content is. Until then, if you’re really so sensitive that reading opinions or ideas you don’t agree with angers you, well then maybe you’ve got issues that need to be addressed.

Dan Boland 19 Jul 05

Top leadership at Fox are fairly open and honest about the fact that their news channel is unique in that it specifically promotes a Republican political agenda. They boast of this fact fairly openly, and in fact this open focus gives them access to some news sources that would not otherwise be available to �non-partisan� news providers.

Can you provide sources? I’m not necessarily trying to poke a hole in your argument, I just want to hear what you’re hearing.

Christopher Fahey 19 Jul 05

Finding links to prove that Fox is open about offering a warm welcome to conservatives/Republicans would be like trying to find links to prove that The New Yorker is openly liberal. It’s as plain as day. When anyone claims that Fox is not conservative or that The New Yorker is not liberal they are quite simply talking political rhetoric, not talking about reality.

Don Wilson 19 Jul 05

Will, I highly doubt you would be saying the same thing had this been Ted Turner.

Dan Boland 19 Jul 05

Finding links to prove that Fox is open about offering a warm welcome to conservatives/Republicans would be like trying to find links to prove that The New Yorker is openly liberal. It�s as plain as day. When anyone claims that Fox is not conservative or that The New Yorker is not liberal they are quite simply talking political rhetoric, not talking about reality.

That wasn’t what I asked you.

You said that “top leadership at Fox are fairly open and honest about the fact that their news channel is unique in that it specifically promotes a Republican political agenda.” So I asked for you to send me a source that corroborates that claim.

Instead of providing one, you instead change the subject. You tell me that it’s “plain as day” that Fox News is a right-wing news outlet. That’s great if you feel that way, and I don’t agree or disagree because I’m not a regular viewer of that network. But I wanted to read an article quoting “top leadership” frankly talking about the political slant of their network, based on your earlier post.

So there are two possibilities why you didn’t give me a source — you either can’t recall or find a source to something you have seen or read that could corroborate your claim, or your claim is patently false. Which is it? I really hope it’s the former, because if it’s the latter, than I’m afraid you’re guilty of “talking political rhetoric, not talking about reality.”

Darrel 19 Jul 05

So I asked for you to send me a source that corroborates that claim.

A good start:

http://www.outfoxed.org/

Dan Boland 19 Jul 05

See, Darrel has the right idea!

Dan Boland 20 Jul 05

Thanks for the information, but just to be clear (again), I wasn’t asking whether Fox News is conservative or not. I was asking where I could find a resource with an interview, article, whatever with someone up top at FNC saying “yes, we cater to the right and we’re proud of it.” I’ve heard the doublespeak and the subtle inferences. But the way you phrased it led to believe that someone said something more concrete, and I wanted to read about it. But if that’s not what you meant or whatever, that’s fine.

Patrick Kennedy 20 Jul 05

I just thought this news was funny. Many of my friends are MySpace addicts (especially my sister), and it was fun to watch their reactions when I told them.

The best was my sister: “Wow. That makes them so much less cool.”

Darrel 20 Jul 05

Fox as the lone voice of true conservatism in broadcast journalism,

True conservatives would never say Fox News is their voice. Hell, most sane folks wouldn’t say ANY of the major US news networks are their voice.

Mike 20 Jul 05

True conservatives would never say Fox News is their voice. Hell, most sane folks wouldn�t say ANY of the major US news networks are their voice.

Darrell, couldn’t agree more with both points.

Have to say also, it’s kind of funny that one of the shortest posts on SVN has also created the most conversation.

Tim Almond 22 Jul 05

$580 million. Ha ha ha. Like the .com boom never happened.

If there’s any VCs reading, I’ve got a new ecommerce site for sale, selling dog collars on the web.