Working US hours from Europe has flipped my day. Mornings are now for leisure and evenings for working. This completely changes what that leisure time is spent on.
Most days I work from 1pm to 9pm here in Spain, which translates to 6am to 2pm Chicago time. That gives me all the time before lunch to enjoy the light of day and all the activities that encourages. I find myself more interested in working out, more eager to read books, and generally infused with more energy for both physical and mental activities.
It also gives me a couple of quiet hours of working time before the programmers and designers on US time checkin from somewhere around 8:30am to 10am. Completely uninterrupted periods where both Campfire, IM, and email is quiet.
Compared to working a regular 9-5 US schedule, the difference is stark. On that schedule, I spend more of my evenings consuming passive media like shows or movies and there’s much less energy available for physical activity.
While I’m sure biorhythms and productive hours differ vastly from person to person, I’d be surprised if there weren’t plenty of people just like me who’d benefit from flipping the day. Working US hours from Europe seems to be the easiest way to make that happen.
Rick
on 23 Jan 12As a new years resolution I’ve started to get up early and I’m loving the hours between 0600-0800. I typically get one or two of my big tasks for the day done in that time, making the rest of my day more ‘people-centered’ instead of ‘task-centered’.
However, some sunny Spanish days sound even better ;).
DHH
on 23 Jan 12Also, this probably works especially well in Spain where most people are working until 9pm anyway and restaurants don’t even open until then. So you still have the option of hanging out with friends in the evening.
GeeIWonder
on 23 Jan 12Sounds suspiciously like meetings.
Europe is big, US is big, and Spain is somewhat remarkable. There’s nothing inherently easy about it.
All that said, I do more physical activity in the evening when I have a time difference of +4 hrs/+9hrs and find myself alternating ‘time zone days’.
BTW, people on e.g. subs have been doing the 16 hour day thing forever.
Spike
on 23 Jan 12Done that for 3yrs with a company in SF, rocks in the beginning, but start to suck very soon. Specifically all the pros you list are there, but I’d love to see a follow up in a while if you’re in Spain for long enough (and with Chicago you’re +6, not +8 so it’s more beareable). Specifically if you have friends and they all go out in the evenings and you’re stuck at work that’s no fun. In general your social life will suffer from it because most of the people around you will working days and do stuff in the evenings. Also being on a completely different TZ adds to the complexity of remote work, in most cases I had meetings as last thing because that’s when we overlapped and I never left on time because people wanted to talk to me and so on. Bottom line, in theory you’re doing 1 to 9, in practice you end up working a day and a half and missing on social life.
That said, since all the pros are there, these days I started getting up at 6 and starting to work at 10, which allows for enough time to workout and dedicate time to myself when I’m most energetic.
Russell
on 23 Jan 12This is why i’m a night owl. I’d rather do fun activities during the day and work at night when the chance for interruption is much smaller.
Jaime Creixems
on 23 Jan 12Hey david, I’m from Spain and I admire 37signals and their policies so much.
Are there any openings here in Spain? I would love to join the team.
I would love to talk to you as well to know a little more about your experience within 37signals. If you want, please get in touch :)
DHH
on 23 Jan 12Spike, it’s definitely easier if you’re an introvert as well :). I also agree that this is easier to pull off when the time difference is +7 rather than +9.
I’ve been running this model for years now, though. Before working from Spain, I’ve been working from Denmark (where we build the first version of Basecamp) and then from Sweden with a similar flipped schedule.
So even though Spain is particularly fit for this setup due to everyone else working until 9pm (because of the mid-day siesta), I certainly still found it preferable even from the Nordic countries where dinner is usually at 7pm.
Marc
on 23 Jan 12Interesting…
Do you have any trouble disconnecting from work and clearing your head before you go to bed? I find I need a good buffer zone between work and sleep or my head won’t let me sleep at all…
David
on 23 Jan 12Doing this for 4 years now and love it. I spent morning reading books, walking outside or working on my personal projects and then start doing real work at around 3pm (central european time).
Going out with friend during the evening (say 8pm) is certainly issue, but it motivate me to not slack checking Twitter/FB/HN, finish the work, call it day and have some fun outside.
DHH
on 23 Jan 12Marc, I usually end work around 9pm or so. That still leaves a couple of hours to wind down.
Also, there’s an interesting thread on HN about flipping the day on US time with a US schedule so you get up at 5am.
Jacob Riff
on 23 Jan 12I like the hours from 5am to 9am the most. It feels like I get six hours of work done in those three hours. And NO interruptions!
What are you doing in Spain anyway? Running away from the Chicago winter? Come back to Denmark – we have hardly had any temperatures below zero until now :-)
Jacki
on 23 Jan 12Off topic: any basecamp Next updates?
MicroAngelo
on 23 Jan 12Obviously goes without saying that this works in other places too!
I’ve been very happy working UK-time from India and then later Thailand. Love having a guilt-free lie in, reading in the park/beach before lunch, perhaps swimming, then retreating inside to work before it gets too hot outside.
Aligning UK lunch break with Eastern dinner time is just a bonus!
Agree that (for us night owls at least) working out in the morning before work seems more natural/energised.
lomaxx
on 23 Jan 12Interesting post, and for me, interesting timing. I’m actually about to start a similar schedule myself by starting my work day at around 1pm and working through till about 9pm.
My motivator is to spend more time with my kids. I noticed that evenings were being “wasted” online or watching TV because the kids were in bed, and when they were awake, I was at work.
So this year, my wife and I have decided to flip it, so I have free time when the kids are awake and we can spend more time as a family and then I’ll work when they sleep.
AlexB
on 23 Jan 12Yea, and 9PM is right about Tapas hour too, any earlier and its dead!
Bruce G
on 23 Jan 12Just wait until your Chicago colleagues start flipping their days, you’ll all be out of sync. Or do they need to move to Europe first? ;)
Jacki
on 23 Jan 12@DHH
Why are you in Spain?
Jerod Smith
on 23 Jan 12I worked an evening shift for a while. (3–12). I loved it. I saw many of the same benefits listed above. I had all of the morning to myself and felt energized. The only thing I didn’t like about it was not getting to see my family til the weekend.
DHH
on 23 Jan 12Jacki, because it’s a great place to live!
Jonathan Frei
on 23 Jan 12I’ve never had a job where I’ve been able to do this, but I feel like I’d be good working in two separate 4-hour stretches, one in the morning when I’m extra sharp, and one in the evening, during my other peak time. For instance, work 4 hours from 4am to 10am. Then take a break until 2pm. Then work 2pm to 6pm.
It would almost be like getting two days of work per day!
8 hours is a good amount to work each day. Whoever came up with that number knew what he was talking about. However, we all need to figure out where best to put those 8 hours.
Jaime
on 23 Jan 12DHH, in which city of Spain are you living ?
Jacki
on 23 Jan 12@DHH
Do you permanent live in Spain or just vacationing?
Dmitry
on 23 Jan 12I did that for 4 years and it got to me finally, now i’m glad to flip the day again to usual schedule. But who knows, maybe in another 4 years i would like to do it again :)
Michael
on 23 Jan 12I was hoping this was a literal flip, so instead of: 11pm-7am sleep 8am-5pm work 6pm-10pm hobbies
You had 5pm-1am sleep 2am-11am work 12pm-4pm hobbies
It wouldn’t work very well, though.
Cam Collins
on 23 Jan 12I found that the 2 to 3 days per week that I work from home are far more productive than my “office” days precisely for some of the same observations pointed out by @DHH. I get up and read for about an hour and then I eat a healthy breakfast and workout (doing P90X2 at the moment). I will work from 11am to sometimes 11pm at night taking ample breaks in between to eat, walk or go to my kids’ functions.
On my office days its a 45 minute commute each way and although I get to consume podcasts during this time, I don’t feel I have the same level of energy and focus. When I get home I am less motivated to read or do something more creative.
Deltapan
on 23 Jan 12That’s basically what I was doing when I was working remotely from my home office, untill my main customer forced me to move into their office and comply with their standard office hours…
But I’ve got some developers in China who are quite on the same schedule, following an European schedule, that makes them begin their work around 2 or 3pm, ending it around midnight. Their diner break being just at the same time as our lunch, they are able to spend the afternoon at the office, then move home for diner, and end their work from home. They really appreciate the schedule, especially because if there is some extra work to do, they can do it in the morning, rather than putting extra work hours in the night.
melissa
on 23 Jan 12I don’t want to be a killjoy here, but for other people thinking that this is the way forward – be SURE you’re legally allowed to work in the country you’re in before you start logging hours working online. This is illegal (though mostly tolerated) in the UK, and it can have serious consequences if you work online whilst in the UK on a visitor visa (for Americans, this is the “visa waiver” you get on arrival). Details on the situation here: http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=70129.0
I don’t know Spain’s immigration laws so maybe it’s fine there, but it’s DEFINITELY something to check out before you start logging hours while vacationing abroad.
Sergiu (Scorpiono)
on 23 Jan 12This is quite a debate. I started working US hours from Europe 3 years ago and since then it’s almost impossible for me to reset my schedule and wake up at 8 AM in the morning.
Just as Spike mentioned, it’s fun at first but once you realize your friends and loved ones are actually enjoying evenings while you are working it’s starting to tickle a frustration deep inside. The good part is my schedule is flexible and I can work AMs as well as PMs (I’m talking about Europe time here), it all depends on my organism and when I wake up. It’s more of a “get the job done” than “stay 9-5”.
Now after 3 years, I find it more efficient for me – I get more stuff done and generally better – when I wake up in the AMs, however the downside is that you can’t sync with the US team that much.
My decision for this or next year is just moving to US and leave everything behind. Pretty radical, huh?
Grant
on 23 Jan 12Working for myself, I can—for the most part—dictate my own schedule. it varies and changes a decent amount based on the season, projects, and my own natural rhythms, but the thing that I’ve noticed is that I am consistently more productive with a leisurely morning and solid work sessions in the early afternoon and then again in the evening.
It makes me wonder how many of us aren’t productive because we’re having to adhere to a more “traditional” work schedule. Back when I worked for a small agency, I did the “normal” 8-6ish schedule, plus an hour commute both ways. I was barely functional after a couple years of it.
Rockiger
on 23 Jan 12@DHH
In which area are you at the moment?
Americo Savinon
on 23 Jan 12@Melissa: Agreed is pretty straight forward, David’s case is pretty cool since he is a European Union Citizen he can move around lovely Spain, work/live there, and still listen to Spanish Guitar and Flamenco while eating tapas late at night. Que viva España.
Mike Papageorge
on 23 Jan 12I’ve been doing the Spanish thing for quite a while, and now having a family find that getting in some 5am hours, mid-day off, then earlier ending evenings works very well for quality time con los niños…
Chris
on 23 Jan 12@Melissa: Well, DHH is Danish so it’s not an issue for him thanks to the EU’s freedom of movement. But you do raise an interesting point, as remote working becomes more widespread how do companies and governments manage this in term of employment laws, taxes and other logistical issues? If you’re working in the virtual world does it really matter where you are in the physical one?
Stephen Vardy
on 23 Jan 12I flip into the night I work into the night, socialise then meditate. 2am-4am is a magical time for me The world is asleep. The mental “flux” of the day disappears.
The secret for me is finding a highly sociable sauna between 11pm and 1am where men and women are engaged in fairly intense discussions. We often go out for dinner afterwards. This keeps my social side complex and interesting. Most of this crowd goes to bed about 6am
I usually meditate between 2am and 4am The “cleanest” time to do this when the world is asleep. I crash at about 4am and sleep to noon. My wife crashes very early and we both get quiet solo periods each day. Very productive.
S
GeeIWonder
on 24 Jan 12If you can do your work in 2hrs… yeah, I’m mostly not interested in your work.
But y’know, good on ya.
Edmundo
on 24 Jan 12Interesting. I have also been thinking about switching up my schedule. But what about dinner? Do you go out and eat or do you cook your own? I feel that would make a huge difference in pulling this off.
Gerard Kelly
on 24 Jan 12In my first job I had the benefit of “Flexitime” whereby you could come in anytime between and 7 and 10am as long as you did your full working day (doesn’t sound like much but for a big corporate it was a good deal).
I found that doing a 10am – 6:30pm worked really well as I enjoy sleeping in and I’d have interrupted time to work after 5pm when most people headed home.
It all came to an end when my manager called me up on it and said I had to go back to doing at latest 9-5pm because he “couldn’t be sure” just how long I was working (since he left at 5pm). Another pointless corporate “benefit”!
Neil
on 24 Jan 12Sounds like the perfect working hours in my eyes
de
on 25 Jan 12de
This discussion is closed.