Dave K. asks:
A follow-up question to “Is formal education important”... How does a “beginning” programmer/developer/designer gain the experience that you guys, or any company for that matter, want to see? I’m assuming that you want to see a portfolio of a someone’s work…but how do they go about building up their portfolio? I guess the general question would be, how does someone get started?
A great way to build a portfolio without clients is to make up fake clients. That’s how I got started.
Designers have it easiest
If you’re a designer you’ve got it easy. Design a few screens for your own fake online shoe store. Or online bank. Or cell phone company. Or grocery store. Show the world what you would do if you had the chance. I’ll guarantee your fake client portfolio will look better than your future actual client portfolio too.
Programmers: Go open source
It’s easy to show the world what you can do visually, but if you’re a programmer you’re going to have a tougher time making the quick sell. So what I would suggest is to get involved in open source projects. Find a project you’re passionate about and lend a hand. You’ll learn a lot, be exposed to different approaches, and be able to pitch in on something real. Everyone we’ve hired at 37signals has contributed to an open source project. It’s a great way to show an employer what you can do.
Just do it
No one is going to give you a portfolio. You have to build it. Make up your own clients. Fill in your own portfolio pages. Show people what you can do given the chance. That’ll get you started.
Nathan
on 14 Nov 07I’d add to that ‘volunteer’! There’s a ton of non-profits out there desperate for designers, developers and techies of all stripes. It might take digging to find a good match, but I’ve found that non-profits typically will be open to different technologies that you might be interested in working with and will be patient with you if you’re doing other things. There’s that whole goodwill thing too!
Dennis Eusebio
on 14 Nov 07Its true.
Your student or experimental portfolio will always have the best projects. You have the ability to work with little constraints and produce things that would not be cost effective in a normal business environment.
Don’t hold back and come up with some great things that make people take notice. That’s the best way to get work and establish yourself.
Tony
on 14 Nov 07I find that doing some pet projects really helps. It lets you experiment around on new things and push your limits. You can also try doing some free work for non-profits, or getting a position as an intern…
Ryan Allen
on 14 Nov 07It’s never been a better time for programmers and designers – it is so easy to publish your work and ideas these days thanks to the ubiquity of the internets :) I agree with your sentiments whole-heartedly.
Noah Everett
on 14 Nov 07I started posting some of my code snippets on my blog (LINK: FindMotive.com) and hacking together little projects and I’ve received 5 job offers from companies reading my blog in the past year.
Anonymous Coward
on 15 Nov 07I’m sr. designer at Yahoo! and I can tell that this 100% true. A solid portfolio (made up designs concepts or real ones) with the willingness to learn is what we look for in fresh designers. Also, Jim Coudal ideas that taste in more important than skill is true.
Just Another Designer
on 15 Nov 07With all due respect, this is questionable advice at best.
I’ve personally hired many designers and developers, and have been part of interview rounds for many more. I can tell you that a portfolio piece from a real project is far better than one from a hypothetical project.
Real projects have constraints. Things you can and can’t do, budgets to fit into, deadlines to meet. You guys are normally all about constraints, but you’re implying here that it’s OK to blow them off when creating portfolio pieces? Hiring managers want to see real work, done in real circumstances. Don’t bring me an ad you designed for iPod unless Apple hired you to to create it.
On a related note, why is that so many people that follow this feed think that 37signals has all the answers? When did they become the definitive source of wisdom on things like usability testing and personas and all that? They’re not experts in any of these subjects – they just happen to be a wildly popular software company. Pay them to do what they do best (build software for the web) and leave it at that.
What makes you think they know anything about what gets someone hired at a more traditional software company? Has anyone on the 37signals team been a hiring manager for something like a Fortune 1000 company, or even a startup?
They’d be the first to tell you that they do pretty much everything differently than most companies out there. Why do you all think they are the voice of how all other companies work?
I understand thinking that 37s is great – I’m a fan of their stuff as well. But asking them what it takes to get hired in a more typical company is like asking Jennifer Anniston how to handle the war in Iraq. Even if she’d fought there once, that doesn’t make her qualified to run the show.
Do you disagree, Jason?
Matt
on 15 Nov 07@Just Another Designer Don’t wear your jealousy/anger on your sleeve. If 37s can’t comment on what they look for in new hires, even though they are employers and their comments on it are indeed relevant, then I suppose since you aren’t a published author, you shouldn’t be writing blog responses.
Andrew Sutherland
on 15 Nov 07You pretty much just described my path exactly. A few years ago I got my first real paid hosting account, and started designing websites for clients (friends’ parents, non-profits, etc). Then I got involved in Wordpress, and released several hugely popular plugins and became a solid member of that community. It all just built up my experience, and now I’m running a small but successful startup. It’s been a very successful course of events for me.
So just allow me to add my stamp of approval to this message :)
Planeador
on 15 Nov 07@Just Another Designer: when you need advice in something, do you call only an “expert” in that area?
Relax. It’s just:I have my blog and i use to talk about things i’m not an expert, but i like to share my thougts. If you care or not about what i think it’s up to you. The same with SvN; i think there are a lot of valuable ideas.
Fake clients by 37signals: Jason is tallking about something they did, and it seems worked very well for them when 37s was a Design firm. Look: Better Fed-Ex
Geoff B
on 15 Nov 07Hard to know what to do with such a strange analogy.
How about: uh, I don’t think it’s very much like that?
Geoff B
on 15 Nov 07(in reference to the Jennifer Aniston/Iraq war analogy, above)
Jason Pontius
on 15 Nov 07We had a position open a while back, and I couldn’t believe how many people wrote us claiming to have worked with “Fortune 500 companies.” It seemed like everyone had worked on a team that did an intranet site for Cisco.
For us, and I bet for you guys and many others, a site someone built himself for a rock band or a nonprofit, or for himself, carries SO much more weight than something he did as part of a team for Bank of America. If an applicant hadn’t ever done a site for fun, or to learn how to build stuff, or to try new ideas, then we knew he (or she) wasn’t the person we were looking for.
That Better Fed-Ex site is awesome, and doing something like that seems like a great way to demonstrate UI skill when you’ve never been given the opportunity to bring your skills to work on a real project of that level.
Tom G.
on 15 Nov 07Just do it.
Obviously you have to have basic skills; e.g. an airline won’t let you pilot a 747 if you can’t fly.
Don’t get hung up in the medium, focus on the message.
Find an area that you’re passionate about and recruit yourself to a company that does what you are passionate about. Successful companies are always looking for good people – passionate people. If somebody, even without any experience contacted me for a job and had the right attitude I’d give them a chance.
Do it now. The job market currently favors potential employees in the web development business.
Gary R Boodhoo
on 15 Nov 07@Tom G: great comments, already knew it, but just what I needed to hear before facing a difficult challenge at work today. thanks for sharing.
Samuel Cotterall
on 15 Nov 07Whilst I was studying I did a lot of projects for fictitious causes because a) I didn’t have the time or confidence to deal with real companies and b) it gave me full control over the project, allowed me to set my own timescale (unless it was a piece of coursework) and do as much and as little as I liked.
That gave me a great introduction to a lot of technologies and practices, and gave me a little more to put into my portfolio.
Blogging and commenting, using specialist forums, attending conferences (or even meet-ups) and developing stuff for others (Wordpress extentions or Widgets, for example) seem to give your name a little more weight when you come to apply for a job. Just being part of the community is valuable experience in itself.
Matt
on 15 Nov 07Unfortunately most companies DO care if you’ve done work for a Fortune 500 company. I definitely see both sides of the argument… having that experience is definitely validation and something measurable you can report on a resume. But, it certainly doesn’t mean you have any more skills than an 18-year-old who does MySpace layouts.
It very much an old way of doing things, but let’s face it, the old people are still doing the hiring at most places.
Steve Pilon
on 15 Nov 07I’d also suggest that you can go even further than “fake clients” and just make something that you think would be cool. If it turns out good, you might even end up with another business on your hands. I’ve done that a number of times. Most recently, I wanted to learn how to build an e-commerce site, so I decided to make a fake record store, because I’m into music. It turned out pretty good, so I went ahead and launched it for real, and now I have a small but pretty cool and self-supporting side business that I never expected to have, PLUS a cool portfolio piece. (Gratuitous self-link here if you want to check it out.) I just think that if you’re building a “fake” project that actually interests you on a deeper level, not only will you be more interested in seeing it through, but you’ll have more insight into the finer points of the problems being solved than you might have if you just make something completely random.
Samuel Cotterall
on 15 Nov 07To further what Matt was saying about it being the old people doing the hiring, I’d also add that very few jobs in this industry are advertised (the good ones anyway) because in these circles everybody knows everybody.
On this basis it’s important to be know as someone who does something very well. Having your own (good) project gets you known in the right circles so you may not necessarily be ‘experienced’ but when the guy who’s going to hire you recognises your work it’s going to be a big advantage.
Just Another Designer
on 15 Nov 07@Matt: I’m not jealous. I think 37signals deserves all they have – they are truly a great company with a great mindset and approach, and they have a lot of valuable things to offer.
What bugs me is when they post advice that’s just poor and frame it like it’s a universal truth. Most of the time, their advice is very good, but on occasion, they’re just wrong. And when they’re wrong, they’re giving bad information to thousands of people who probably have the same question as the guy who originaly wrote in. (Incidentally, that person asked how to get started with any company, not just 37signals, and that’s the problem.)
I don’t mean to knock 37signals, and I’m def not jealous of their success. I just wanted to counter-balance their advice in this case with some more legitimate real world perspective.
Also, please don’t assume you know anything about me. For all you know, I am a published author and have thousands of books and have years of experience hiring designers.
@Planeador: When I want to know about a subject, I look for reliable information. That usually comes from experts. Running a successful software company does not necessarily qualify Jason as an expert on design portfolios or hiring processes in other companies.
Weixi Yen
on 15 Nov 07This is pretty sound advice. If you have the talent, publish it online. It costs nothing but a little bit of your time.
Anonymous Coward
on 15 Nov 07@ Just Another Designer – I love the confidence in your reply then, “do you agree jason”? Priceless.
Dave Stern
on 15 Nov 07Just Another Designer, you raise some good points (and I think most people will agree that a real project is better than a fake one, usually), but the question was pretty much about how to build a portfolio from nothing.
When you’ve got nothing, it’s not necessarily easy to start getting real projects, although people in this comments section have made some good suggestions in that area (non-profits, family, etc.)
Fake redesigns/open source coding are both really good ways to have ‘something’ when you’re asked for a portfolio or code sample, rather than nothing. They’re also pretty good for, y’know, learning and improving yourself and such, which are strong goals in their own right.
DHH
on 15 Nov 07Also, “fake” portfolios are usually way better for programmers than real ones because you can usually never get to examine the source of the real ones. The fake ones, be that open source or just a hobby project, are free to be examined.
Just Another Designer, Jason offered his experience on following his own advice. As he said, it worked great for him to have a fake portfolio, and it worked great for 37signals as a company (with the 37Better series). So you might personally consider fake portfolios as a negative for your hires, but assuming it’s universally wrong is going against cited evidence in this case.
BTW, claiming fake portfolios are bad while hiding behind a fake name makes for an amusing composition. Heh.
jon oropeza
on 15 Nov 07I like it. I’ve made several really good hires, including based on a portfolio of ‘fake’ projects. In one case it was a series of management scripts and gizmos that a kid who’s now my SysAdmin has designed, in another it was a portfolio of mock ads that my web developer had designed.
Another idea – and how I got my start in IT 10+ years ago – take a job in the mailroom of a smallish company. Learn your tasks, then start sniffing around for problems. Every company has them. Earning a reputation as a problem solver, coupled with bugging the SysAdmin on a daily basis, got me a job on the help desk. From there it was on to code…
Matt Brown
on 15 Nov 07I built one of the largest and most respected metal music websites in the world; outside of my fulltime job. I started it way in the beginning days when I was a noob web developer. I did it just because I love the music and I needed a playground for trying new technology. It has since then evolved into a small business and the shining star on my resume.
I’ve got a degree and a Microsoft certification on my resume along with my other experience. The one thing that has dominated most of my interviews though, has ironically been my website. It shows my skills, my passion, my business sense and interviewers have been intrigued by how the whole operation works.
Moral of the story? Getting your hands dirty with something you are passionate about is priceless. And who knows, it can even evolve into something that pays your mortgage every month. ; )
Planeador
on 16 Nov 07@Just Another Designer: they are now a succesfull software company, but they were a VERY SUCCESFULL design firm. The 37better Project worked very well for them.
It’s not THE way, it’s just A WAY. His WAY.
I think it’s very good to share different ideas. Not books; real world instead.
Dave K
on 16 Nov 07@Just Another Designer: I’ve heard about creating fake portfolios before, so I asked that question because I wanted to see what advice they would give. Sure, creating “fake work” is not the only way, but apparently its a pretty popular way.
As an aside, they aren’t trying to be the definitive resource on everything. They just have experience, and they speak their minds. The blogosphere needs more of those kinds of people. Obviously, they’re not gonna be right all the time, but what I appreciate is how they present their thoughts in a clear manner, and they’re not afraid to say it even though they know they run the risk of being wrong…(am I right in assuming that?)
da teacha
on 19 Nov 07I ran a graphic and web design program for many years, and I always dissuaded students from creating “fake pieces”. I think for experienced designers a fake piece can be pulled off. But I always found that with beginning designers, fake pieces always looked obviously fake or they looked completely derivative.
The problem I found was that students had no perspective of the client, and with no experience of this perspective to fall back on, they spent far too much time twiddling around in different directions. I also found they were too tempted to start creating their own content for the piece as well and that’s when things can really go downhill. No client and fake content generally doesn’t end well . . .
Anonymous Coward II
on 20 Nov 07@Just Another Designer and a comment in general.
I’m in college and unemployed, so perhaps my comment is rather irrelevant. Nevertheless.
What happens when you hit the following wall: Hi, I’d like a job. “Sorry, you haven’t got enough experience.
How does one get experience without a job? How does one get a job without experience. Sure you can ask to hang around for experience while not actually being an employee but you’re still not earning an income and that rather stuffs up your abilitiy to pay the bills.
A fake portfolio seems rather good advice to anyone without a real portfolio. Anybody with a real portfolio doesn’t need a fake one and so the advice doesn’t apply.
Great idea guys.
This discussion is closed.