You read that right. We’re looking to hire a new designer that can kick our ass. We’re looking for our current aesthetic to be challenged and changed. Redesign 37signals.
This is the chance to redefine the look and feel of 37signals. We’re going to start with the product marketing sites. We expect some of that influence to trickle down into the apps over time. But initially this is all about a new design language on our public-facing marketing sites.
You’ll have virtual free reign. We want you to take the lead. You’ll have a lot of influence here and across the web design and software design world.
We’re looking for someone who understands type, someone who understands color, someone who understands proportion, someone who understands what it takes to give something a distinct style all its own.
Bring us a fine art angle. Bring us something hand drawn. Bring us great design. Bring us design that communicates a clear purpose. Design that’s friendly, warm, and inviting, yet elegant, modern, and fresh. Bring us design that feels good.
If this is you, share your work and share your thoughts. Tell us why you’re the one for us. Email us at svn [at] 37signals dot com and include [Designer] in the subject. We won’t be able to get back to everyone, but we’ll be in touch if we think you may be the right fit. This is a full time position.
Thanks much. We can’t wait to get started working with you.
Reference: Posting on the 37signals Job Board.
Jake
on 10 Jun 08Photoshop skills a negative
FredS
on 10 Jun 08^I lol’d.
Jake A. Smith
on 10 Jun 08hahaha—That’s great, Jake.
Austin
on 10 Jun 08I hope you post something like this again in the future — 37signals posting a job is one of the few things that makes me want to speed up school. I’d love to do something like this but, for now it’s school. So little time, so much to do!
JF
on 10 Jun 08Photoshop skills a negative
Ha! Actually Photoshop, Illustrator, paper, pen, painting, skills are all a positive. Skills are always positives.
Mr. CSS
on 10 Jun 08rephrase: ImageReady “skills” a negative
Eric
on 10 Jun 08Wow what a coincidence! I happen to be shopping for clients to design for ;) - Eric
Tom
on 10 Jun 08Nice knowin’ ya, Ryan!
JF
on 10 Jun 08Nice knowin’ ya, Ryan!
Good one. This move is going to actually make Ryan and I better designers. We’d love to learn from someone with a different perspective.
Jakob Nielsen
on 10 Jun 08You ready to get real fo’ real? We won’t stop simplifying until the pages are blank up in this mofo.
FYI, I need relocation expenses covered.
Will
on 10 Jun 08It must be very cool to be in the position, in any industry, where you can ask the very best and brightest to take notice and they will. Who wouldn’t want to work for 37signals?
It’s impressive that you’re challenging yourselves as a company to try something new and push past your comfort zone in terms of design.
Happy hunting. I’m excited to see the results.
Don Wilson
on 10 Jun 08If a different perspective is what you’re looking for, I’m a pretty good candidate. I’ve been working with PHP for over 7 years ;)
David Demaree
on 10 Jun 08So I guess this leaves out those of us who learned how to do good web UI design by watching you guys, huh?
David O.
on 10 Jun 08I love it when a company wants to hire a designer to push their limits, but I like the design of the 37 signals site. It’s the perfect example of a web 2.0 site yet it remains distinctive. 37signals along with Apple and Adobe are one of the few sites that I can remember as being distinctively aesthetic. I don’t know if it’s just me but I think rather see some innovative 37signals tees than a site redesign.
Anonymous Coward
on 10 Jun 08@Don
3 steps to kick 37s ass and change their game:
- Put them on a PHP diet (Cake anyone?) for a month. No RoR for a month. - Give them their 3 day weekend off & install FreeBSD on everything. When they look confused, mention that MacOS is FreeBSD so they just need to skin it. No MacOS for a month. - Make David put $300 in a cookie jar everytime he mentions his MacBook Air. Double it if he mentions how his girlfriend also likes it.
GeeIWonder
on 10 Jun 08Shit. Sorry that was me—hit publish too soon.
“Buy everyone EEEs with the cookie jar money” was how it was supposed to end.
Anyhow, just kidding. Delete at will. ;)
Andrew Cornett
on 10 Jun 08I’m pretty pumped for this! and I also have to agree with Austin… whats with all the great design jobs getting offered before I’m out of school?
CJ Curtis
on 10 Jun 08Wait. Question…
Why are you writing posts about the intricacies of your design philosophy and why things should be done THIS way or THAT way (when there really is no “WAY”)...
And now you’re looking for a “designer” to reinvent the “public face” of your marketing sites??
JF
on 10 Jun 08I also have to agree with Austin… whats with all the great design jobs getting offered before I’m out of school?
Quit school. Who needs it.
GeeIWonder
on 10 Jun 08Whether anybody (I’m looking at you JF) is serious or not, this is the most entertaining post in a month!
SH
on 10 Jun 08whats with all the great design jobs getting offered before I’m out of school?
Quit school. If you’re wondering why you can’t go for all these amazing opportunities, it’s because you need to quit school.
Buck Wilson
on 10 Jun 08Cool job posting. Love the concept of finding someone to shake things up rather than finding someone who fits the mold. Speaks volumes about the design principles you guys have.
I’d apply but I love where I am currently ;) But I would love to see whoever comes in gank all of the stark gradients :P
Peter Urban
on 10 Jun 08I’d apply if I weren’t busy building Smibs Inc. ;-) Good luck in finding the right guy.
Matt Radel
on 11 Jun 08Wow, what an awesome opportunity. :)
pjm
on 11 Jun 08Good to see that you’re looking for a refresh: I just had a gander at the information pages for Backpack and Highrise and noticed a bit of a stench. Within the apps things are clean and uncluttered, but the main pages have decayed rather badly; add in a flash component or two to fill in a bit of whitespace and you’ve got a reasonable facsimile of a infoworld.com story page. Boo to whoever has acquired the centering fetish!
Anyway, here’s to a hot new look…
Dennis Eusebio
on 11 Jun 08Good luck guys. Its a lovely challenge and opportunity.
Owen Waring
on 11 Jun 08Ready and willing to change the world :D
Just sent you an email.
Seth
on 11 Jun 08Too bad my hard drive crashed a few weeks ago! O well…thus is life.
MB
on 11 Jun 08Rock on. Failed to finish my senior year of college when I yanked a job with a $70k/yr+benefits+profit-sharing starting deal.
Do what you love. Love what you do. Worst case, you can die poor and happy. =)
MB
on 11 Jun 08(Granted, I was a junior by my third semester…)
Don Schenck
on 11 Jun 08Best wishes, Jason.
This ad/post is depressing. I don’t have anything to offer anyone. Shit, I’m old and washed up.
Dammit.
Michael
on 11 Jun 08Wow, this is a great opportunity. Lucky person who gets a foot in the door.
I was just thinking 37 Signals needed a visual audit!
Nathan Bowers
on 11 Jun 08Here’s what I would do:
1) Hire a copywriter to cut the copy by at least 75%. The 37s homepage could easily be improved by killing everything below “Also from 37signals”.
2) For the individual product pages, consolidate “signup” and “tour” into “Try it free now”. This would launch a working Basecamp instance. If the user tries to save anything then ask for an email and password, with optional links to the sales-y pages. I counted and there are several clicks and LOTS of fields to fill out before someone can become a customer. Too much friction!
3) Wow there’s a lot of copy on the sales pages.
4) Type and layout: there are too many faces, weights, sizes, colors, backgrounds, gradients, yellow highlights, and other things going on. Simplify.
5) Focus not on what a page visitor might want to do, but on what you want them to do. If your goal is to turn prospects that fit to the 37signals worldview into paying customers, then the design needs to make that frictionless.
Yakov
on 11 Jun 08hopefully no one will drop out of school because someone who works for a web 2.0 website told him to. an education is a valuable thing.
Rick
on 11 Jun 08Is it ok that I use Frontpage for everything?
Frontpage rocks!
Jason
on 11 Jun 08Alright, I just dropped out of school. It was a drag anyway. I packed everything I own into my Cavalier and am sending this from a truck stop with Wi-Fi. I should be in town around 7:30 so I’ll be ready to go when you guys get there. I’ll probably need a place to crash until I get my first paycheck though. Can’t wait to see you guys…
Mr. K
on 11 Jun 08@yakov – you can get an education in more ways than one. i barely graduated high school, didn’t finish community college, but i make over 100K a year doing what i love after busting my ass for a few years learning on the job.
i agree with @mb. do what you love, love what you do, aim to be the best.
and good luck to the Signals. am looking forward to seeing how this decision manifests itself in the future. hoping you find the right person for the j-o-b!
Noel Hurtley
on 11 Jun 08Sounds like a killer opportunity, I’d love to work with 37signals. Good luck to everyone who applies!
Mimo
on 11 Jun 08Ask him. He is great.
http://www.ballmann.net/recent/
Jack Hughes
on 11 Jun 08Holy crap! Mr. Usability is on this thread. Jakob Nielsen. Unfortunately I still can’t afford his seminars. Love you work though.
BTW I think Rick (above) has got my vote so far with his Frontpage Skills. Mad Skilz no doubt.
Tor Løvskogen Bollingmo
on 11 Jun 08If I can make my finals in InDesign I’m game. Oh, and I need someone to make alot of spacer.gif’s for some white space, heard that’s nice – maybe you can do it, Gee I Wondah?
Anonymous Coward
on 11 Jun 08Was visiting 37signals.com the other day, thinking «eww what are these guys up to?». Good thing you decided to do something about it, your sites (not webapps, but public sites) are hard to grok. Evidence: go to 37signals.com and figure out who works there, and how to contact 37s.
Maarten ter Braak
on 11 Jun 08Good luck with the search guys. I just love the Netherlands (and my current job) a bit too much to be applying for this.
But yay for hand drawn design. I always start out hand drawn for designs.
GeeIWonder
on 11 Jun 08To be clear: if you’re getting a job off a a blog and quitting school, you have no business doing eithr. Monet learned his shit as did Renoir as did Michelangelo as did Cezanne.
Modern art wouldn’t be what it is without la fondation mague.
No offense to any particular person, but pretending like ignorance is a virtue is so ridiculous I have difficulty even othering to entertain the argument.
Morgan Roderick
on 11 Jun 08I think it’s a strong move, to get new talent in to mix things up.
The posting is very clever as it shows that the new talent will be given a lot of freedom, while still being challenged.
Good luck on hunting down that designer!
sohbet
on 11 Jun 08Oh hey, I forgot to enter a name.
V
on 11 Jun 08I think I share my brain with some of your designers. A year back I started learning RoR and made a small project log for my department. When I showed it to the people and one of them said “have you heard of basecamp?” and I was like “No!”.
Then I looked into Basecamp and all other apps and was stunned to find that most of the things, even UI was almost same. It broke my passion.
I believe you guys have a very elegant design already. Change a bit but please don’t overhaul.
David
on 11 Jun 08I have always loved the 37signals style. Every design element has a purpose. Their focus is on communication, not looking cool. At a time when web designers were still using tiny text, unnecessary navigation (think one paragraph per page) and photos of women with headsets everywhere, 37signals was using a design language that included big fonts, long pages and lots of text with highlighted phrases.
These are not new design tricks btw. They’ve long been on consumer product sites that most designers would consider cheesy or ghastly (e.g., www.x10.com). They are proven design tactics that help generate sales. I mean as bad as the X10 site looks at first glance, I’ve bought 2 kits and recommended it to 3 friends who also bought kits.
What 37signals did was devise a way to create highly effective sales pages that look great. Stellar copyrighting (and a stellar product) helped a bit too. And then every other SaaS product site followed their lead.
I hope the new design language maintains an emphasis on killer communication over cool style. But, maybe I can help :) Time to freshen up the portfolio…
Tor Løvskogen
on 11 Jun 08David; Does every element has a purpose, and looking beautiful have to be a choice? I feel that real crafted design needs both.
Bob Monsour
on 11 Jun 08Go get this guy: http://brightcreative.com/
You know, Dave Shea…try to actively recruit him.
Just a thought.
Chris
on 11 Jun 08CJ Curtis: “Why are you writing posts about the intricacies of your design philosophy and why things should be done THIS way or THAT way (when there really is no “WAY”)...”
On Jason’s recent post about going from sketch to html and css, he talked about why they use this practice. He wasn’t saying here’s how everyone should do it. The post title said it all—“Why we skip Photoshop”.
And you have to differentiate between designing for a web application and a mostly static web page. Hiring a new designer to help with the latter does not in anyway mean that Ryan or Jason need to change the way they design the apps themselves.
Lukas Dryja
on 11 Jun 08My suggestion would be to find someone with Design + Usability +Branding skills. Strong typographic skill only go so far, and they are rendered useless when the designer cannot guide the user through the application. Strong design aesthetic is important, but the overall customer retention is through a merger of usability+design.
Branding: You obviously defined 37 signals as a company, now its time to send one clear message to potential customers. As one of the previous posters mentioned, there is still a lot going on and your products can be further simplified.
Usability: Your applications are leading the way, but they still lack the necessary detail as well as customization to fit all prospective users.
Turn 37signals applications into a need not a want.
Good luck !
Tom G.
on 11 Jun 08Hmm… Quit school – who needs it…
For the majority who need to get a job in an increasingly tough job market, a degree on a resume just might get you that interview that leads to a great job.
I know you guys pay for things your employees are interested in as long as they share their new found knowledge. It seems to me that a job at 37 Signals with flexible working hours and tuition reimbursement might be ideal for that special someone.
Brandon Durham
on 11 Jun 08I’m really excited to see what comes of this. I’ve always been a huge fan of the 37signals aesthetic.
I’d email you guys in a heartbeat about this position if it didn’t scare the hell out of me (and if I didn’t feel like more of a developer than a designer these days).
GOOD LUCK!
gwg
on 11 Jun 08IF you can get one of the jobs you really want, THEN leave school. Don’t drop out just to go on an interview.
Recent Design Student
on 11 Jun 08Are you kidding – share all my ideas so that you hacks can steal them and take credit.
No way.
DHH
on 11 Jun 08Recent Design Student, yes, I’ve heard that keeping your portfolio hidden from prospective clients and employers is exactly how you win their hearts and wallets! Rock on, fight the power!
(no, we’re not asking anyone to do spec work for free)
Lindsey
on 11 Jun 08Right… no one is going to wait for people to get out of school when they need someone NOW.
Just finish school and when you’re ready to find a job there will be dozens of new opportunities.
Anonymous Coward
on 11 Jun 08Tor Løvskogen Bollingmo
on 11 Jun 08Woops, that last comment was mine. When’s the time to add a “remember me”-checkbox, Jason?
Jeff Martin
on 11 Jun 08For those of you in school, there is always the opportunity to start your own business. It does take a bit of work but I’ve started two of them so far and am working on a third. It’s really just a matter of willpower, determination and ultimately your passion.
In any case, although 37s is a great company that makes great products, no doubt – they are only the tip of the iceberg in untapped potential and opportunity.
Don’t let this discourage you from applying though! I’m just offering some insight to those of us still in school or in my case, full time school and three jobs – and yes, I still get 8 hours of sleep a night.
cv
on 11 Jun 08I have to comment:
free REIN
Horses, not kings.
OTOH, I like the style of the site as it is – it looks so uncluttered, which is a distinct plus.
GeeIWonder
on 11 Jun 08Seriously, any employer that TELLS you to drop out of school is not an employer (or promotes the idea) you want to be with. It might be to their benefit, but it’s certainly not to yours.
If they pay for you to go to school, that shows they’re prepared to invest in you and further your career options (to both your benefits, btw). That’s the kind of attitude you want.
You don’t need a degree to do good work or important work, but it’s another hammer in your toolbelt.
Dan Volkens
on 11 Jun 08What an incredible opportunity. It’s good to bring in fresh blood every now and then to shake up the status quo, even one as well established as what you guys have. :)
Jason Santa Maria
on 11 Jun 08FWIW, I would rarely even grant interviews to people without a college degree. It actually has very little to do with the school or their achievements there, instead it’s a basic sign of dedication and follow-through on something, which can be a difficult trait to find in designers at that level who haven’t had their licks yet.
JF
on 11 Jun 08FWIW , I would rarely even grant interviews to people without a college degree. It actually has very little to do with the school or their achievements there, instead it’s a basic sign of dedication and follow-through on something, which can be a difficult trait to find in designers at that level who haven’t had their licks yet.
I can certainly respect that perspective, and you know I love you JSM, but had I followed that advice I would have never hired half of 37signals. And I can’t imagine a better team of talented, intelligent, driven people to work with.
Josh A.
on 11 Jun 08Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Jerry Yang. What do they have in common? They’re all drop outs. The most successful people are those who have a dream, and follow it.
GeeIWonder
on 11 Jun 08They’re all drop outs.
So are oh so many others you’ve never heard of.
The most successful people are those who have a dream, and follow it.
Which has nothing to do with dropping out at all.
People spouting this stuff drive me crazy not insomuch as they’ve made a choice for themselves, but they feel a need to make sweeping, misleading statements that are generally poorly conceived. Critical thinking is a valuable skill. A is B so B is a A is a logical fallacy. You could’ve learned that in school.
Now quit complaining about European, South American, Indian or Canadian PhDs stealing all your jobs.
JF
on 11 Jun 08Geel is right. “Drop out” doesn’t have anything to do with your ability to dream or do great work or posses special talents.
anon
on 11 Jun 08@Josh A
Bill Gates: yeah, his mom was on the board for Berkshire Hathaway—how’d he get that contract for DOS again? Those connections came from where? His family was rich, too. Oh, his mom was also on the board of the United Way… with then IBM CEO John Opel.
Yang graduated from Stanford and has an MS to boot.
Page and Brin stopped their PhD programs—not their BS.
Jobs, ok.
Tor Løvskogen Bollingmo
on 11 Jun 08Lisa
on 11 Jun 08You know, I bet if you are a student and you get the job with 37s, they would help you pay for you to finish school.
Also, school will always be there, you can always go back if its that important to you.
If I were hiring and saw the experience of working 37s, it would be much more impressive to me than seeing a BFA from any school.
David
on 11 Jun 08@ Tor Yes I agree that you can have beautiful design and justify every design element. However, to actually lean toward using design elements only for communication (rather than beauty) makes a statement. 37signals defied convention when they originally launched their product sites. I found that to be very cool.
Tor Løvskogen Bollingmo
on 11 Jun 08I think they wanted to release early, so they didn’t stress the detailing in the design.
Andrew Cornett
on 11 Jun 08@JF + @SH
I would be ditching school if I wasn’t already over $60k in debt, now it seems all for nothing if I don’t follow through and at least get the degree.
Jason Santa Maria
on 11 Jun 08Oh, absolutely. And this was a little while back when designers of college age weren’t as skilled or knowledgeable as they are now. We still interviewed and hired a few non-grads, but what it really came down to, and I’m sure you get this too, is the impression you had of them. Meshing well with the existing group combined with good-to-great work, beats out a degree any day.
Nollind Whachell
on 11 Jun 08I’m assuming people won’t like this response but I’d say find someone who can even simplify your message (product) even more so, down to its very core. For example, if I’ve never heard of 37 Signals before and I go to your main website, I’d find it difficult to understand what services you offer because your service names and logos (the first thing I look at) don’t immediately make it that apparent. Not until I actually read the small print under each service do I understand what you offer, yet to me this should be 80% of your home page focus (80/20 rule) in the sense of what is the most important thing you’re trying convey (and convey simply).
So if I came to the home page, I’d instead expect to see something like the crude example below (but in a larger font, say twice the size of the existing service font sizes there now, so it’s more prominently spaced out and not drowning in the other text).
37 SIGNALS // Helping Businesses Work Well
BASECAMP // Collaborate with teams, clients
HIGHRISE // Manage contacts
BACKPACK // Share info, schedules, documents, and to-dos
CAMPFIRE // Chat with teams, groups
Again this is just a crude example but hopefully you get the idea, as the initial word for each product byline describes what it does in a single word (or tries to anyway). And then sure below that have more details but in a much smaller font.
Therefore, you need someone who is not only an amazing visual designer but also someone who naturally understands marketing, usability, and branding/identity so as to convey the message both simply and directly, yet with a strong emotional connection (the “feel”) to really communicate the heart/core of your services.
PS. With regards to people talking about “details”, yes I agree but those details need to be there for a functional reason. In other words, the added little extras of functionality become the detailing itself.
Oh one other thing. You’ll noticed my example had an emphasis on “business” because that the emphasis I’m getting from your home page. Maybe you don’t want this to be your emphasis and you want your identity to be more universally accepted by everyone. If so, I’d humanize a lot of your wording so it’s easily understandable to everyone, not just businesses. I mean the average person may not have any idea of what CRM means or what project management software does but if explained simply, they may see a needed desire for it in their day to day personal life.
Jared White
on 11 Jun 08@JSM and others,
What about the opposite trait—hiring people who have actually been working and creating things rather than going to school for years because they didn’t feel that going through the motions of classroom education would actually provide the experience and inspiration that makes spending outrageous amounts of money worth it?
Higher education should be used by those who know exactly what they want to get out of it and why. Needing a degree just to get hired shouldn’t be part of the equation.
Michael
on 11 Jun 08Truly great design starts from the system configuration, through the code and all the way to the graphical front end. Great design is not merely visual – it’s an attitude, an approach. It’s a drive and a want to refine and offer genuine communication. Great design does not confuse and often needs no explanation. Great design just is.
Most design I see on the web these days is complete BS. What’s with all the textured shit? What’s also up with all the gloss, reflection and wood paneling? Fuck me, it’s just shit.
But the worst part is that sometimes it’s hard to escape these trends in your own design. It can be a feat to break through. It can be hard, not to be influenced by fashion and trend. But – It’s completely possible and often should be a goal.
I just can’t wait for the ‘Web 2.0’ design style to die and keel over.
My 2 cents.
Anonymous Coward
on 11 Jun 08Michael, your shit looks like everyone else’s shit. What’s so special?
Anonymous Coward
on 12 Jun 08“But the worst part is that sometimes it’s hard to escape these trends in your own design. It can be a feat to break through. It can be hard, not to be influenced by fashion and trend. But – It’s completely possible and often should be a goal.”
– I am aware of this, AC
Jared
on 12 Jun 08Sound’s like your looking for a stylist, not a designer pity that…
Grant Bissett
on 12 Jun 08If I can keep using whitney for the product IDs, I’ll start on monday.
Cameron Barrett
on 12 Jun 08I have found that most college dropouts do so for one of two reasons:
1) they can’t hack it and give up
2) after a few years they look around and realize “What the hell am I doing here; I’m not learning anything.” and leave to enter the workforce and execute on their ideas/passions.
I would hire almost anyone who follows the #2 pattern because I know they care about their work and have genuine passion for what they are doing. Most college grads I’ve interviewed somehow expect to get paid a huge salary because they’ve gone through 4+ years of school and checked off all the boxes so they can receive a piece of paper. Where’s the passion in that? How boring…
That said, the kind of people 37 Signals hires are definitely more the #2 than the #1 because the company’s culture allows those types to foster innovation and not fester in a cubicle. It’s this “foster, not fester” approach that I first saw in Jason Fried way back in 1999 when he was still doing Spinfree which he folded into 37 Signals. At the time I was impressed and today even more so as I’ve watched him build 37 Signals into the amazingly successful company it is today.
Jason has built a company that the best and brightest want to work for. That kind of company culture is not an accident. It’s carefully built and managed and those with the foresight to make it happen deserve 100% of the success they achieve.
Good luck to the candidates. Know that if you get hired at 37 Signals you’ve landed a truly sweet job with a company that cares about you, led by a guy who has had a clear vision for a long, long time now.
Don Schenck
on 12 Jun 08I’m a college dropout. Must be a failure.
Oh … wait … I’m working at home, sitting by the pool with a cigar and ice water, being paid very well for the skills I’ve gained in over 29 years of IT. Skills that I continue to upgrade and refine.
School’s not for everyone. Hard and fast rules about college - either way - will fail you. Hire and train the right person.
That’s my opinion.
SH
on 12 Jun 08Don, you need to have a blog where you write down all your inspiring comments. Tell the world!
D
on 13 Jun 08Close to 90 comments and not a single link to a comp!?
Tor Løvskogen Bollingmo
on 13 Jun 08I for one, got better things to do, D :—)
Александр
on 13 Jun 08Lol!!!
Tanya B.
on 13 Jun 08Applying Tufte to 37signals—lowering the data to ink ratio even further…I continue to be inspired by you. Thanks for sharing your recipes on business and design.
Kay Leben
on 13 Jun 08Wow! Don’t redesign you products! They makes me tick.
Anish Tripathi
on 16 Jun 08i’d love to re-design it (http://www.anishmedia.com)
Brade
on 16 Jun 08In light of the recent posts about how you guys usually go about your design process, I’m impressed that you’re willing to change and take your design to the next level. Here comes photoshop…
Danny G
on 17 Jun 08You know..I would have applied..but your little rant about Photoshop and taking visual production out the design process makes me think you might not treat an actual designer very well.
Danny G
on 17 Jun 08And Michael… before you start calling other peoples design shit…you might want to brush up on your own design skills. You work is nothing special…not to mention you home page breaks in IE 7.
This discussion is closed.