A beautiful speech on Father’s Day in Chicago by Barack Obama. Wherever you fall politically, give this talk about family, responsibility, expectations, and ambition a listen. There’s a bit of politics and religion in the last few minutes, but the underlying message is universal. Happy Father’s Day.
Joshua
on 16 Jun 08It’s amazing we have a candidate who is smart enough, eloquent enough, and strong enough to deliver these types of messages. Especially when he’s able to do it so clear and concisely. Probably the most I’ve been excited in politics for a good long while.
Christophe Maximin
on 16 Jun 08I’m going to second that, Jason and Joshua. Wonderful “responsibility matters” speech.
Dhrumil
on 16 Jun 08Yes sir
Brenton
on 16 Jun 08There’s a tinge of populism in there, but there’s one of laissez faire too. I tend to believe that more government, more regulation is seldom the answer. That said, it’s refreshing to here someone pushing for more government to balance it with a call for personal responsibility.
When it’s not election season, John McCain talks a lot less about small government and a lot more about populism. From what I’ve heard about both candidates, Obama’s policies are not the ones I’d support; however, his ability to inspire people give him a leadership quality that may outweigh his political choices. Certainly can’t say that about McCain.
Ben
on 16 Jun 08And even as an athiest myself, there’s something about how obama talks Jesus that doesn’t make me just stop listening. Wonderful speech.
sb
on 16 Jun 08I really try to stay out of politics on the web but I hope this guy wipes the floor with his/our opponent. He will end up being one of the greatest leaders in our nations history, or the nail in the coffin of the great american experiment. My “hope” is for the prior.
Dave
on 16 Jun 08At the 18 minute mark, Obama advocates a number of federal programs. (“We should guarantee” government controlled health care, federally funded nurse visits to pregnant moms, more sick leave to “every worker”, etc…)
Who pays for these programs? The federal government already takes 30% of my income – that’s almost 4 months of work just to pay income taxes. I’d rather have those 4 months back to spend with my family or save that 30% for my children’s education.
His ideas are great on a local level, maybe even a state level, but on a federal level? Most of his policy is anti-Constitutional.
Anauel
on 16 Jun 08I’m not an American, but I don’t need to be in order to recognize a great man.
Melvin Ram
on 16 Jun 08Correction: He will be President
@Dave – Rather than complaining about the 30%, look at it as the price of enjoy all that is around you. It’s not perfect. But there is no place I’d rather live. :D
Btw, many of his plans will be paid for by eliminating the tax cuts to those making over $300k/year put into action during Bush days. This means hard working folks who earn that $300+ k/year will go back to the same policies of Clinton days. Those were good days, even for wealthy people.
Anyway, my only fear is that politics may change Barack… which I don’t think it will.
~ mel
Sean
on 16 Jun 08@Dave, your attitude is one that Obama and other progressives have a hard time of overcoming. It’s an attitude that the individual is more important than the collective, that keeping your taxes low is more important than the proverbial “teaching a man to fish.”
After we have spent over half a trillion dollars on the the Iraq war based on lies, I suggest that our national priorities are completely screwed up. These are your tax dollars and mine. We need to use them for something decent and useful and morally acceptable instead of where they are going now.
Democrats have consistently backed a “pay as you go” financing structure while Republicans have been more than wiling to shove the debt for today’s war and social services onto the country’s children.
It seems clear to me that you, Dave, and many others out there are backing the wrong people and using shoddy logic to justify your abject selfishness, summarized in the conservative battle cry, “Don’t raise my taxes.”
Maybe you should listen to Obama’s speech again – especially the parts where he talks about how “it’s not about me.”
Chris Vincent
on 16 Jun 08He’s going to be our next President. It’s going to happen.
Chad Crowell
on 16 Jun 08All great remarks. Dave, I’d argue that there are many more wasteful programs and politicians on the books right now- and taking that waste, and applying it toward programs that Obama speaks of, as well as other programs targeted at healing America instead of breaking the rest of the world, would easily pay for the programs and (hopefully) decrease the debt without affecting us adversely.
Go Obama! The same old thing sure ain’t been working…
Jeremy Ricketts
on 16 Jun 08He’s such a good speech giver, and I love that we have someone in the running that can finally inspire America. I hope he can deliver as a President. Fast decision making, foreign relations, and the business of running a country just feels so far removed from speech making though. I just hope he can deliver in that arena as well. I think he might be able to. At least he’s not talking about ridiculous “summer gas-tax breaks” and other such pandering nonsense. Man McCain… you really lost me there old man.
What makes this country great is a mighty pendulum that swings back and forth. Between democrats and republicans, between aggressive foreign policy and conservative, and between hands-off and hands-on fiscal policies.
We’ve had 8 years of the pendulum swinging hard and fast in certain, distinct directions and I’m starting to think that we’d do well to vote for the candidate who’s most poised to slow it down and pull it back in the opposite direction. And then, in 4 or 8 years, we’ll probably need to pull it back the other way again.
Ismo Ruotsalainen
on 16 Jun 08I hope you guys (americans) vote better president this time. There’s so much suffering in the world because of your last two voting.
Chris
on 16 Jun 08Every person should watch this video. If everyone does what Obama says they sure deserves a “Happy Father’s Day”.
Sebhelyesfarku
on 16 Jun 08Another socialist scum.
Paul
on 16 Jun 08Obama sure can fill the sail, but the boat goes nowhere. He’s very eloquent, but I find that upon listening further his messages are very shallow talking points and communistic in value.
Frankly, he scares me to death.
Paul
on 16 Jun 08@Ismo Ruotsalainen: Of course, I disagree with you completely. There was tremendous suffering at the hands of Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden. I not saying I agree completely with the policies of our last two presidents, but at least they didn’t institute death rooms or purposefully kill thousands of innocent civilians for not believing in (their version of) Allah.
Larry
on 16 Jun 08Sebhelyesfarku, your argument is well thought out and articulately presented. You are one of the great intellects of the internet. I now agree that we should cut all public schools – they obviously can’t provide an education on par with the obviously superior private schooling you acquired.
Paul, not being as bad as Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden is faint praise. Even I can come up with a better arguments in support of Bush, and I despise is handling of the country.
Alex
on 16 Jun 08It’s interesting to me that so many of the readers here (and possibly Jason too) support Obama and his bigger-government message, when the overall message of this blog and the 37signals philosophy includes keeping things small: small organizations, small decisions, small solutions. In general, I support small government for the same reason I agree with the 37signals approach: the bigger the decision being made, the more opportunity for waste, catastrophic failure, etc., and that goes more so for government decisions, where the free market doesn’t help to correct mistakes. Of course, some people might just like Obama’s speaking ability, his anti-war stance, etc., but it seems like people are into his economic message too, and that surprises me.
Richard
on 16 Jun 08Obama isn’t for bigger government, he’s for more responsive government. If you take his campaign as an example, it did more (won), spent less, and rallied more individuals than any campaign in history. He’s got a lot of money in the bank after a hard fought campaign. Not bad for a “tax and spend Democrat.”
And, I’ve read that he lives his life more frugally than most folks in his position. I don’t think there’s much evidence that he’ll do things like create a Department of Homeland Security, the biggest, most expensive, and least effective department ever created. And, it was thought up and created by George W. Bush, who is most certainly not a “tax and spend Democrat.”
But, if he created a WPA-like institution and it cost serious money, I, for one, would be happy to put my taxes toward that.
Matt T.
on 16 Jun 08I wish I could learn to talk all day and really say nothing. That truly is an amazing skill.
JF
on 16 Jun 08I wish I could learn to talk all day and really say nothing. That truly is an amazing skill.
Read your comment. You’re well on your way.
John Doe
on 16 Jun 08The American political system is sick. A political system that is funded and driven by the private and corporate financial system. How is the American political system any different to a corrupt third world government.
So it’s great to hear such powerful words. Let’s hope we see some positive change and hope it’s not all hot air.
@paul. Get out and see the world. You will find that in general American society as a collective is very narcissistic.
Don’t believe the hype
BH
on 16 Jun 08Anyone else find it a bit ironic that a man who voted to let abortion-surviving children die after a botched procedure is speaking about fatherhood?
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legisnet92/status/920SB1095.html http://www.ilga.gov/senate/transcripts/strans92/ST040402.pdf http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=1082&GAID=3&DocTypeID=SB&LegId=3910&SessionID=3&GA=93
Jeff
on 16 Jun 08I don’t agree with his political outlook at all, but I will say he is a gifted speaker. Clinton had this gift, as did Reagan. People are drawn to and inspired by such persons, but I hope people will stop to actually listen to what’s being said, no matter what side of the political fence they’re on.
Greg
on 16 Jun 08Amen BH!
I wish you guys wouldn’t post politics in any way shape or form here. I actually like this blog.
Either someone pass me the kool-aid in a mac cup or let’s go back to talking about building great web apps.
Bob
on 16 Jun 08Pop quiz time. Who was the last GOP president to balance a budget? Who was in the white house and which party controlled congress when a $1.2 trillion (over 10 years) entitlement program was passed?
Political parties are not static entities. Just as the Republican party was once the party of Lincoln and the Democratic party was once staunchly pro-business, new changes are constantly taking place. So anyone who believes in action rather than talk should take a careful look at the actual economic policies that have been put into place by Republicans and Democrats over the last quarter century instead of simply swallowing whatever slogans the parties like to spew out at campaign time.
Party platform != party policy.
Todd Zaki Warfel
on 16 Jun 08@Richard we haven’t been hit again since 9/11. That should indicate some level of success of Homeland Security (along w/the CIA). Yes it’s expensive, but it’s not the least effective department ever created. Now the IRS, that’s an expensive department that we could do away with.
As for Obama, he’s clearly a great inspirational speaker. I have a hard time finding substance behind his words. I’d love to see someone, either Obama or McCain, make our government more transparent. I’m not a fan of bigger government, but rather prefer smaller government and more personal responsibility. It’s not clear yet, which of these men can really deliver this. McCain doesn’t bend to special interest groups, based on past actions. Other than that, McCain’s been in the background, so it’s hard to say what he can/will do.
Obama speaks about changing government, but his actions of increasing taxes doesn’t seem that different than other politicians. In fact, his voting record is close to 97% the same as Clintons. Makes you wonder. Can he do it? How knows. He has a huge challenge in front of him. If he does get elected, I hope he changes government for the good, rather than government change him for the worse.
November will tell.
Daniel Higginbotham
on 16 Jun 08“I wish you guys wouldn’t post x” comments really baffle me, especially on a blog of consistently high quality. Why can’t you just skip the post? Or does simply seeing the topic sully your day or your opinion of the blog?
Richard
on 16 Jun 08“we haven’t been hit again since 9/11. That should indicate some level of success of Homeland Security…”
I give you one word: Katrina.
J
on 16 Jun 08Nothing like a 95% non-political Father’s day speech about family, responsibility, and love to bring out the political flame wars.
I wonder how many people here who are bitching about this or that policy or this or that candidate even took the time to listen to the speech.
It was such a wonderful, kind-hearted speech about loving your family, encouraging your kids to be successful, not giving in to complacency, being a good parent by providing for your kids, not blaming the government for your ills, not blaming history for your ills, etc. Just be a good human being and don’t settle for just being OK.
Absorb something good today.
jona
on 16 Jun 08It’s funny how many of you are against taxes, while taxes is what makes a society humane. why are you all for the survival of the fittest, while at the same time you want someone to take care of you in hard times…and in the end public owned services are cheaper because they aren’t there to make a profit. I for one think taxes are a sign of a well developed country that is willing to take responsibility for their less fortunate and share their wealth. In the end everyone is better off this way. the distribution of wealth in the US is the same as in a third world country because of this ego-thinking.
X
on 16 Jun 08jona -
“while taxes is what makes a society humane.”
No.
“why are you all for the survival of the fittest,”
No.
“while at the same time you want someone to take care of you in hard times…”
No.
“and in the end public owned services are cheaper because they aren’t there to make a profit”
No.
Jon
on 16 Jun 08He reads very well. (That is the only positive thing I have to say about him. I’ll leave it at that.)
Charles
on 16 Jun 08Yes, a good speech. Chris Rock and Bill Cosby said many of these same things, and they got flamed for it.
I suppose the histrionic posts here are inevitable, which is too bad. An emotional investment does that to people, especially politics (can you imagine what some of these posters are like in a design meeting? Sheesh!)
I’m waiting for the debates to see who gets my vote. Still, good speech.
Merle
on 16 Jun 08@Ben – Maybe you’re not as much an Atheist as you think?
igwe
on 16 Jun 08what annoys me is why fathers have to been given all these lectures about responsibility on fathers day, but you never get that on mothers day because it would be politically incorrect. I hope politicians lay off fathers and let them have at least one day of peace. My dad certainly isn’t a bad person and I’m sure a lot of people feel the same way.
GeeIWonder
on 16 Jun 08McCain is a great man. Obama is a great man, probably exceptionally great. This quote comes to mind (after Bobby announced his presidential campaign)
“Yes, of course he has the stuff to go all the way,” John J. Lindsay replied. “But he’s not going to go all the way. The reason is that somebody is going to shoot him. I know it and you know it. Just as sure as we’re sitting here somebody is going to shoot him. He’s out there now waiting for him And, please God, I don’t think we’ll have a country after it.”
Hoping to goodness that doesn’t happen the week after he names a white southerner as his VP, it still doesn’t mean he’s going to be elected, especially not by preaching to the choir. The ‘other’ america has shown twice they won’t vote for a white liberal candidate.
Tom G
on 16 Jun 08I’ve observed that the presidents history remembers as great are excellent speakers.
Obama is an excellent speaker.
Dave
on 16 Jun 08@jona taxes is what makes a society humane
You realize that over 50% of our taxes pay for defense, weapons manufacturing, bombs, weapons research, etc… If you made $100k last year, you personally spent $15,000 – $18,000 on instruments of war.
Obama’s not talking about ending that. He’s talking about shifting a small portion of your money from the military industrial complex to the medical industrial complex.
As a father, I’d rather have that $15k to save for my kids. I know what’s best for me. Taxes do NOT make a society more humane. Policy and personal responsibility make a society more humane.
“public owned services are cheaper because they aren’t there to make a profit“
That’s flat out wrong.
Take education: The US Department of Education admits that the average cost of public education per pupil is more than double the cost per pupil of a private education, even though public schools have more students per teacher.
Why do free public schools in DC need $25k per pupil to do what DC-area private schools do for $10k? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/04/AR2008040402921.html
http://mises.org/story/2937
Ben
on 16 Jun 08Normally a great speaker, but I found this a bit disjointed to be honest. That said he is the best of the bunch, in my humble opinion.
Sounds a bit like an outtake from ‘Boyz N da Hood’ to me – which was admittedly a truly excellent movie.
C
on 16 Jun 08I don’t agree with all his policies (or even most), but I’d vote for a principled candidate that I don’t agree with over one that says what I want to hear but won’t do anything about it.
Don Schenck
on 16 Jun 08Good speech/sermon.
I want to Bible school for five plus years to learn to preach, and this is a well-constructed message. He could have easily put the hammer down at a few points and really worked the crowd into a frenzy, but he held back. Shows self-restraint and respect for the message over the delivery.
I find Obama very inspiring, which is good for me. I felt the same way about Reagan.
Tommy
on 16 Jun 08Listen to the first 22 seconds of the speech. He says how the father is critical in the foundation of this country, that which is the family. Who is the father in a lesbian marriage? I am not for states sponsoring any type of legislation that says what a marriage is and what a marriage isn’t. He believes it should be state-sponsored in the state, yet by using his own words, a “straight” marriage would somehow be more critical or foundational since there is a father?
He’s a great speaker, I agree. I just wish people could see past his speaking ability and listen to what his speech is saying.
We need a vision, the vision of our foundations, the vision to realize the fundamental principles that made our country great. I don’t agree with Obama’s principles or McCains. I’ll vote for someone, I just don’t know who yet.
JY
on 16 Jun 08@Tommy’s first paragraph:
please lighten up.
i doubt his speech would have the same effect if he replaced the word “father” with “Father/or the butcher one of your lesbian moms” for the sake of being PC.
plus, it was a Father’s day speech…
croatoan
on 16 Jun 08we haven’t been hit again since 9/11
“As all Americans know, recent weeks have brought a second wave of terrorist attacks upon our country: deadly anthrax spores sent through the U.S. Mail. “
MB
on 16 Jun 08I think one of the most enlightening things I have noticed since immigrating to the US is how the fear that seems so prevalent amongst many here contrasts against the ‘American way’.
It depends where you sit on the political spectrum, but so many on the right seem afraid of taxes, civil rights, big government, terrorism, and/or secular society.
America was founded on the principles of a secular society, where you were ‘free’ to live your life, and where you had basic human rights.
Yet, so many of these ‘patriots’ support the removal of basic human rights (Detention without trial, torture, illegal wiretapping etc) and support using religious values to control the population (Civil Unions/Marriage for gay people, abstinence only sex education, not teaching evolution in schools etc).
All of that goes against the ideal of freedom, small government, and a secular society.
As for the issue of taxes… no republican can talk about fiscal responsibility or the efficiency of private enterprise in the era of George W Bush.
X
on 16 Jun 08Don’t assume that fear and the “politics of fear” don’t also guide and govern the left. Also don’t assume that the left is the party of liberty. They are only supportive of liberty in their cherry-picked set of values. Similarly with government authoritarianism and invasions of privacy.
The current two political regimes in the U.S. are BOTH big government, invasive, controlling, anti-freedom, fear-mongering, authoritarian animals. Just on different issues.
JL
on 16 Jun 08One slight irony is that many truly great men like Obama sometimes have LOUSY fathers!
This man can speak and inspire. I have a feeling we are going to need that kind of leader soon. I hope he continues to quote Lawrence Fishburne/Boyz N The Hood, and tell Chris Rock jokes. And I also hope he has some brilliant minds behind the scenes setting a sane direction on energy solutions, healthcare coverage, and environmental responsibility. We need his charisma coupled with some long-term foresight.
Brad
on 16 Jun 08@Alex You hit it right on the money – on SvN, that is the perfect discussion to have about Obama. How do the ideas advocated here - “do things simply,” “do things small,” “give people personal responsibility and trust them” - fit in when it comes to government? Do the ideas work on such a large scale? Are they relevant? If not, where’s the dividing line where these things work and where they don’t?
Humble Servant
on 16 Jun 08If you watch this video and do so with an open heart, an open mind, and without agenda, how can you not but be impressed. Obama and I are the same age but come from vastly different environments both physically, and politically and beyond the fact that he is a great orator, the words that he speaks resonate with me.
I am a 45 year-old white guy who has lived a charmed life and over the last 20 years I’ve seen the tone of this country follow a path further into the gutter and away from the founding principals laid down by a bunch of old white guys 200 years ago. I’m putting my faith in this man, regardless of his religion or background or color, because I believe he is the man to do it.
Ismo Ruotsalainen
on 16 Jun 08Paul wrote: ”@Ismo Ruotsalainen: Of course, I disagree with you completely. There was tremendous suffering at the hands of Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden. I not saying I agree completely with the policies of our last two presidents, but at least they didn’t institute death rooms or purposefully kill thousands of innocent civilians for not believing in (their version of) Allah.”
Really? What about Guantanamo? What about secret prisons in europe? How about 100,000 dead civilians in your goverments war which is illegal and based on lies? How about Black Water killing civilians in Afganistan and Iraq? There aren’t killing because of religion, there is killing because of oil. There is killing because it’s good for business.
At the end, I don’t see much difference between your goverment and Saddam’s – maybe that your goverment is better in propaganda.
As I say, I really hope you vote better this time. You deserve better, hole world deserve better.
Lisa
on 16 Jun 08@Richard : I give you one word: Katrina.
That responsibility lies mainly in the hands of City and State government. Of course, its not really reported as such by the media. As a former New Orleans resident, I can tell you—the screw ups came at the city and state level.
DavidO
on 16 Jun 08Intelligent, articulate, considered and inspiring. Barack is everything that Chief Chimp never was and never could be.
I’m just amazed at the number of ignorant, uninformed and irrational comments here and elsewhere. Some people are just so partisan that they’ve become intellectually blind when selecting their representatives.
P.S. The bronze age mumbo jumbo really takes the edge off, but if that’s what’s needed, so be it.
Anonymous Coward
on 16 Jun 08I’m just amazed at the number of ignorant, uninformed and irrational comments here and elsewhere.
You mean like calling our President “Chief Chimp” That’s real high ground.
Valmy
on 16 Jun 08I don’t know why everyone thinks Obama is such a great speaker. Every time he opens his mouth I rush to turn off the sound. I was hoping that after eight years of having to do that I’d get a reprieve.
He’ll be the next president and we’ll all be better for it, but there’s nothing in the way of new in any of his speeches. And in this particular case, this Father’s Day message – it’s over-simplified, dogmatic, tired and misses the mark. “Fathers need to stand up”. Nothing will be accomplished by repeating this message over and over again.
Anonymous Coward
on 16 Jun 08I’d love to hear your inspiring message, Valmy.
DavidO
on 16 Jun 08You mean like calling our President “Chief Chimp” That’s real high ground.
I’m not ignorant of what Mr Bush has done. I’m not uninformed of the consequences. I’m not irrational in assessing the damage he has caused the planet.
And I’m entirely justified in using any pejorative I bloody well choose when referring to him. He deserves no respect and the sooner he fucks off to Crawford to clear brush on a fulltime basis, the better off humanity will be.
The bullshit written about Obama is nauseating: he’s a secret Muslim, he hates white people, terrorist fist jabs with his wife, on and on. There are a lot of people in America who need to take a good look at themselves and decide if they really want to associate themselves with a party that will use any deceit or form of attack to smear their opponent.
America needs to take steps to rejoin the rest of the civilised planet. The neocon, right wing, Christian Taliban agenda has gone far enough.
Finally, anyone seriously considering voting for McCain needs to start doing some research on him. Here’s a starter: http://www.eyesonobama.com/blog/content/id_20167/title_McCains-History-of-Blow-Ups-The-Top-Ten
CCN
on 17 Jun 08Please close this thread!
Anonymous Coward
on 17 Jun 08Wow, DavidO. You’ve shown your maturity. First you call the President a chimp then you tell him to “fuck off to Crawford.” Is this how you talk about people you don’t like? Name calling and telling them to fuck off? Says an awful lot about you. Classy.
Josh
on 17 Jun 08I’ll be back in 4 years to laugh at all you Obamer supporters. Same shit. Obama didn’t even right this speech. Not to mention his campaign is run by Zbigniew Brzezinski. Lol. Oh how easily deceived we are.
Arik Jones
on 17 Jun 08It always intrigues me how people come to this blog and rant on and on about how wrong something is. Hell, I’ve done it myself. Outrage is good when it’s in context and contains at least an ounce of intelligence.
People like Josh and the many others who live to disagree and nay-say, add nothing of value to discussion. Disagreement is only effective when it adds value, otherwise you’re just blowing smoke.
Chris
on 17 Jun 08While all his programs sound great, they will raise taxes. I am trying to pay my mortgage, pay for student loans, and I barely have enough to get by day to day. I do not have cable; I don’t drink or spend my money foolishly. I am a hard working American who is already taxed enough.
Now…someone mentioned that government spending is cheaper because it is not for profit. Give me a break! Do you expect Obama or any other government official to hand something to you? No! Our taxes pay for politicians to hire for profit organizations. So ultimately, we pay for a politician and the for-profit organization. Nothing is free in the world. Government contracts are some of the most lucrative deals for a person in business—easy taxpayer dollars! Cut out the middle man (the politician) and do what Obama says: BE RESPONSIBLE! It doesn’t take a politician to make a better country; it takes YOU!
gunther
on 17 Jun 08DavidO is a perfect example of what’s wrong with American politics today—too much partisanship not enough critical thinking.
If you have some constructive criticism let’s hear it. If all you can do is shout invectives at the “others” then you have nothing of value to add to the discourse, so shut up.
Offended
on 17 Jun 08He’s a great speaker – I fear a poor leader. I do find it interesting that he spoke about missing fathers. He has been running for President for the last two years with about six to eight months more to go. I am sure he has been missing.
Speech Titled: “Do as i say, not as i do”
Alex M
on 17 Jun 08@Josh: Where are you getting the idea that his campaign is “run” by Zbigniew Brzezinski? He is definately working with & supporting Obama, I just don’t understand what you’re implying with your comment…?
Miguel
on 18 Jun 08“Obama isn’t for bigger government…”
The heck he isn’t.
If you take his campaign as an example, it did more (won), spent less, and rallied more individuals than any campaign in history.”
That’s a pretty impressive claim considering in some states he outspent Clinton 3-1 and 2-1 (and lost).”
DavidO
on 19 Jun 08It shouldn’t be necessary on a forum such as this to need to explain how people have their questions answered, but evidently many haven’t worked it out. Here’s a starter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#Early_life_and_career http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
It all kinda lends a lie to the “socialist scum”, “talk all day, say nothing”, “can fill the sail…”, “empty suit”, etc., etc. that gets rolled out ad nauseum by those who appear to have ‘right wing’ tattooed in to their psyche.
Another article on John McCain for those considering him: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/05/johnmccain.uselections20081
P.S. Anonymous Coward , instead of wringing your hands over a ‘bad’ word, focus on the issues. Puckered morals are not a useful tool in separating the wheat from the chaff.
P.P.S. gunther, I note that you accuse me of adding nothing to the discourse (did you not like the McCain link I provided?) while yourself adding absolutely nothing other than “shut up”.
As for me being ‘partisan’, no, I’m just a Brit who has spent some time researching the candidates. The partisanship is clearly in the right wing, almost-neo-fascist element of US society. It’s also mixed up with an odious amount of racism.
McCain is a non-too-bright, born-and-bred military man, with a hair trigger anger problem who has flip flopped his way through his political career in order to further it.
Obama is an agent of change that the USA needs – and that the world needs. Unjustified war, torture, suspension of habeas corpus, rendition, obstinance and inaction over global warming – everyone has had enough.
The early signals show that the majority of the American electorate have already worked these things out. Some of you never will.
This discussion is closed.