We asked our new payroll service if they could mail paystubs to employees. The company rep’s response:
No, but each stub is stuffed in an envelope and sealed. If you put a stamp on it, it could be mailed easily. That is what most of my clients do, when they payroll reports and envelopes arrive, they just stick a stamp on them and drop em in the mail, pretty easy.
Great tone to that reply. Friendly and personal. And, best of all, it’s a “No, but…” When it comes to customer service, a “No, but you could…” is miles better than just a flat “No.”
Update: Jud from Paychex explains why the stubs are mailed.
grant
on 07 Aug 08I’m sorry, but that seems like shoddy service to me. They already have someone or something stuffing the stubs and sealing the envelopes, so they should be able to throw a stamp on there too. They could probably even charge for the extra handling.
Nitin Badjatia
on 07 Aug 08I’m sure you’re happy with your service, but you know there are many out there that let you get your stub in PDF format from a secure website too.
Interesting to see 37S relying on snail-mail, though.
Michael
on 07 Aug 08Even better: “No, but…” and then “I will forward this request on to determine if that’s a service we could offer in the future.” The fact that they said no, and then said “hey user, you can do it instead” is a missed opportunity for a new customer-driven service feature.
Phil
on 07 Aug 08Though to my British ears, “No, but …” sounds like Vicky Pollard.
Mark Holton
on 07 Aug 08does this mean that chapter of GettingReal will change from “Start with No” to “Start with No, but…” ;)
Sam
on 07 Aug 08Except when the “No, but…” leads to something ridiculous…
Case in point, I went to the apple store to see if they had a DVI-Composite converter. The guy at the genius bar told me “No, you might as well mod an Xbox to be your media center”
Ed Knittel
on 07 Aug 08Matt, I think your post is going to be overshadowed by the fact that you’re mailing paper paystubs. I assume you have direct deposit so the need to mail someone a stub? As has been mentioned your payroll company should provide a secure account login for each of your employees to manage their information and to download statements should they choose.
john
on 07 Aug 08Sorry Matt, I would’ve fired them on the spot for that responce.
If I wrote you and asked if Basecamp can do XYZ, and you said “No, but…” followed by, “you can program your own version of basecamp to do that”, I would leave Basecamp, and 37 Signals, blast you to all my friends, and never look back.
Jake
on 07 Aug 08Maybe I’m reading it wrong, but it seemed like the “but…” was kinda snarky.
Jennifer Davis
on 07 Aug 08“Yes, and” beats “No, but” every day of the week (and twice on Sunday). Better for them to say that “Yes, pay stubs could be mailed” and that they enable that to happen by stuffing the envelopes for you.
Benjy
on 07 Aug 08Another vote for the PDF paystubs… we had them at my last job and it’s better than the stack of paystubs that end up buried in my bag. I keep asking for them at my current job—better for the environment by not wasting paper, and there’s also clearly the benefit for a company like yours with so many remote employees.
Alejandro Moreno
on 07 Aug 08a) Obviously, some 37s employees would like to have their paystubs mailed. (Are others happy with an electronic version? Is this an issue in the U.S. for Tax purposes? I’m certainly glad to have a paper version of my [non-37s] paystub.) Hence the request.
b) If the payroll company has a very streamlined service that you respect, it would be easy to understand their answer and consider it “friendly and personal.” Hence the blog post.
c) Like Mike Holton, I’m curious whether the new book with have a chapter titled “Start with No, but…” :)
Silus Grok
on 07 Aug 08Oh for crying out loud, folks … ”no” is a necessary part of business communication. Companies can’t be all things to all people — even within their core competencies. Softening “no” with a work around is sound business advice. Michael’s addition of “I will forward this request on to determine if that’s a service we could offer in the future” is even better.
damn nitpickers *We’ve forwarded this post to our support personnel to remind them of this most-basic of customer relations etiquette.
Jud Lawrence
on 07 Aug 08In regards to the mailed pay stubs. All employees are on direct deposit. The stubs are required to show the tax break down for each employee. We do have a platform that would allow the employees to view check stubs online as well as change their W-4 info. There are 2 platforms that we use and the needs required by 37 Signals were centered on ease of use. We will shortly be able to offer online access for both platforms. If online access by employees was a necessity, then they would have been put on the platform that supports that.
Jakob Nielsen
on 07 Aug 08Got a bit of an Asian fetish.. so I’m more familiar with “No butt…”
Charlie
on 07 Aug 08The update link to Jud’s comment goes to your admin area.
Don Schenck
on 07 Aug 08The payroll service I have delivers my payroll reports via overnight courier. Nice.
A day or two later, I receive the pay stubs via snail mail.
Like Jason, I have no problem with that.
CP
on 07 Aug 08I’ve always spun it a different way. For example, “Can we order a pizza?”
“No, because we don’t have $5.”
“Yes, but we’ll have to find a way to get $5.”
Which sounds better to you? “Yes” is a catalyst to find a solution. “No” is, for the most part, a dead-end.
Matt
on 07 Aug 08@CP – your ‘no’ example is giving an excuse (because), where as your ‘yes’ example is giving an action/solution (but). The important part is the ‘but’, which gives an alternate solution, rather than just a blunt brushoff.
SCY
on 07 Aug 08How about just saying, “ACTUALLY, blah blah blah…” and then offer the solution. In any case, avoid “No.”
Royal8
on 07 Aug 08Some one made a mod to put stamps on a PDF or was this an Adobe patch? And why would anyone need a stamp on a PDF? Well I hope at least they are the new Eames stamps: http://tinyurl.com/5chg6k.
You know what – I’am taking tomorrow off too. 37s and me, off on Fridays.
Tim Jahn
on 07 Aug 08I agree with some of the other commenters that “Yes” is always better than “no”. But when “Yes” is not an option, “No, but…” is much more effective than a plain old “No”. The former at least suggests an alternate solution and shows that you are willing to help the customer achieve their goal, rather than just denying them and suggesting you don’t care what happens to them.
Jud Lawrence
on 07 Aug 08Well said Tim Jahn. There are many different options in getting the information out. What is more important to you: Having your money in your bank account on payday, or getting your stub that tells what your bank balance already emailed you? The bottom line comes down to the client and their needs. If they need something that I can’t offer, I will find someone who can.
J Lane
on 07 Aug 08JL: Jason, I think you should open source Basecamp. JF: No, but we will make it free!
Okay, bad example there ;-)
Steve
on 08 Aug 08Completely agree, unfortunately this isn’t my experience with Basecamp support. I have had several straight no’s when there is a clear ‘but..’ potential and I haven’t been asking sills questions or for feature requests either.
Chris
on 08 Aug 08urm.. if I got his reply I would think ‘sarcastic bastards’! Did that person actually explain how to post a letter?
This is a case where a simple and honest ‘no’ would sound better.
dave posner
on 08 Aug 08I love the fact that 37signals posts something about a reply like this. Why? because you guys are the worst in terms of how you reply to customer service issues in my opinion. The attitude that comes across is we are 37signals, piss off. So I love the fact that someone who is treating you with a piss off but with a smile has your panties in a bunch.
Love your product but have always hated the attitude and crap for customer service.
Javier [EmaStudios]
on 09 Aug 08Dave,
Customer service can be a bad experience; you call with a problem to a service provider and they not always can solve it right away (or at all).
Now, no matter how sugar they put on top of it, if they can’t solve your problem (or mine), it’s a crappy customer service? Of course not! I like a customer service that treat me like a person than a robot on the other line of the phone.
It really pisses me off when people say that they can’t do nothing for me with a big smile on their face. It’s better to tell me the truth, I’m a grown man god dammit!
Even when they can’t solve our problem, customer service should point us to the right direction, or solve our problem in the near future if they cannot right now.
I don’t want to bring examples to the table but DreamHost has some really amazing customer service, although their hosting service can be slow sometimes (like all) they behave so good with the users that people just love them. That’s an excellent customer service right there.
My point is that, the “No, but…” works perfectly, but there is always a 1% of the people customer service can’t always help, and they will walk away hating customer service.
They can’t help that. We can’t help to hate them.
But, I believe we all that provide some kind of service, should keep using the “No, but…” even when it doesn’t help at all sometimes.
Adios amigos! Javier Cabrera
Pete
on 10 Aug 08My personal favourite variation on “no, but…” is “not yet”.
Jeff Hartman
on 11 Aug 08Sometimes “No” needs to be “No” and should never be a “Yes” or “No, but…”.
Especially in parenting.
Gary R Boodhoo
on 12 Aug 08the parenting analogy is a sound one I think. As a designer, I find I run into trouble if some boundary isn’t recognized where “no, but…” becomes simply, “no”.
I absolutely agree that exploring alternatives generates novelty and can frame issues in unexpected ways. Completely need that actually. Except when I don’t. There has always come a point for me where design becomes completely deterministic. Production is easier if you’re making decisions that can be extrapolated linearly.
Reframing at that point breaks designs and breaks designers! Just saying…
This discussion is closed.