This week I’m having a new roof put on my house. I did the research, got the quotes, picked a company, and they’re working on it now.
They’ve been at it two days so far, but I’ve already been surprised twice. It reminded me how important it is to set your customer’s expectations.
Day one
They tore off the old roof(s). You can’t see the sky, it’s just the old roofing material—the ceiling is still in place. I had no idea this would make a mess inside the house on the top floor. Paint chips, roof dust through some cracks and removed skylights. I guess I should have assumed, but I’ve never been through this before so I didn’t think much about it.
Would have been nice if the roofing company said…
“Hey, when we tear off the old roof you might get some black dust and paint chips on the top floor. You may want to cover up some of your furniture or other valuables just in case.”
Day two
Out come the blow torches. I didn’t know they’d be torching today. But I’m working from home and wondering what the acrid burning smell is and light smoke filling the house. Now I know.
Would have been nice if they said…
“Hey, today we’re going to be working with torches and toxic materials. Some smoke and fumes may get inside during this process. You may want to leave the house while we’re doing this.”
Day three
I have no idea what’s next. What happens tomorrow? They don’t tell you, they just do it and then you find out.
Would be nice at the end of each day if they said…
“Hey, so far we’ve finished A B and C. Tomorrow we’ll be doing D. Here’s what you can expect.”
Setting expectations is key
I have confidence in their work, but the experience has been soured by the the lack of expectations. Just giving me a feel for what’s gonna happen today and tomorrow would go a long way towards making the experience significantly better.
ML
on 11 Nov 08Yeah, and it’s probably all standard stuff that they could print up on a sheet and give to their clients.
The example I always think of in this regard: going to the dentist. I’m always happier if a dentist tells me what he’s going to do, how long it’s going to last, whether it’ll hurt or not, etc. But when they just dive in and start drilling/poking/whatever, I get annoyed. It’s the not knowing that’s the worst part.
Elaine
on 11 Nov 08Oh my god, I’d hate to be your wife.
Ryan
on 11 Nov 08Agreed—this kind of work seems notoriously bad about setting expectations. I had a similar experience with both a fencing project and an exterior powerwashing project. These companies are the experts, and they need to do a better job about informing their customers. I’m a research junkie, but I can’t think of everything, and nor should it be my job to do so when spending this kind of money.
Otto
on 11 Nov 08In hindsight, it’s always nice to be informed about stuff up front, but we as consumers can do things to get informed up front.
When I’m doing something for the first time, I’ll asking leading questions like, “This is the first time I’ve ever _. Is there anything I should know about? Anything I need to plan for…”.
In your case, maybe the contractor thought you knew all those things and didn’t want to appear to be talking down to you.
In any case, I hope it all goes well and is over soon.
Joe Sak
on 11 Nov 08Your comment about the dust kind of reminds me of the building maintenance at my old job.
They would come in randomly and fix things in the ceiling above our desks, which would leave all that ceiling tile crap all over our stuff, including our monitors and keyboards.
They never warned us when they’d be coming in (usually they’d set up a latter right over my chair while I was taking a bathroom break), never told us to cover our stuff, and never cleaned up after themselves.
I hated when those days.
Marie-Claire Camp
on 11 Nov 08If they came right out and said “Our deepest apologizes Jason, re-roofing a house is messy, inside and out. We wish it were different but unfortunately there’s nothing that we or anyone else can do about this. But we can let you know when things will happen, and what to expect every day.”
Brilliant right?
and in a fantasy world:
“We will personally cover all of your furniture and things with drop cloths today”
“Here’s a 50 dollar Starbucks gift card so you can have an afternoon in peace because Tuesday we’re going to be making a terrible racket, and filing the house with a toxic gas.
“Do you have any pets? Here’s a two day pass to the local dog park.”
And to prove that it’s truly worth it, they provided 30 real testimonials of former customers.
Then afterwards in that same fantasy world:
“We unexpectedly damaged your hydrangea bush out front, got tar on your white couch, and ripped up your lawn with the dumpster, we will pay to fix anything, please send us the bill.”
That would be exceeding expectations.
Emily
on 11 Nov 08An interesting post Jason. Yes, it would be so nice if there was communications in these matters. I’ve found most home fixing jobs go this way. Even the best general contractors need to be babysat. It’s truly unbelievable really.
Roofers are a strange breed too. Must set expectations low. Very low. The roofing project on my house was one surprise after another. Including how they never protected the nice historic bungalow terrace in the front from debris and knocked big chunks out of it. Good times.
Contractors, are you listening?
JF
on 11 Nov 08Speaking of hydrangea bushes, they did damage mine. It’s amazing how under-appreciated and overlooked gardens and plants and gardening is when people are doing work on your house. Complete afterthought.
G-man
on 11 Nov 08Speaking as a building professional, it sounds like you did not actually have a ‘contractor’ on your project. What you had was a ‘specialty trade sub-contractor’, like a plumber, electrician, etc.
The problems you point out have been eliminated on larger commercial projects under experienced owners by the use of a ‘Construction Manager’, who acts as a liaison between the owner and contractor or subs.
There is is a need for this kind of role in the residential remodeling market, but there is just no budget for an additional salary (think 20% of the contract) in small jobs.
Therefore, you have now just become the Construction Manager!
Jim
on 11 Nov 08For a post on a related topic, see this;
http://sippicancottage.blogspot.com/2008/11/you-wont-win-race-facing-wrong-way.html
krist0ph3r
on 11 Nov 08maybe they expect you to ask more questions :)
George
on 11 Nov 08Oh man, I can’t help but laugh when I hear anecdotes about builders. I’ve certainly never heard a positive one. The lesson I take from all those stories is set the right expectations – for what you hope to get from them. Somehow, they ALWAYS manage to disappoint.
Pito Salas
on 11 Nov 08Speaking of blow torches, this is a real fire risk so I’d keep an eye on them to make sure they know what they are doing.
GeeIWonder
on 11 Nov 08Marie-Claire inadvertently gives a good reason NOT to do this, akin to Sarah’s comments about wanting a more from her wireless plan for less money.
If you start discussing expectations, sometimes, inevitably, you’ll end up with people who just have no concept of what is reasonable. So the guy who lies, or just keeps his mouth shut, gets the job.
I think it’s still a good thing to do, but I can see why people may be reluctant to start going down that road.
GeeIWonder
on 11 Nov 08@Pito: Depends. A lot. Wood is actually very fire resistant.
JF
on 11 Nov 08These guys know what they are doing—been roofing for over 100 years in Chicago. I’m not worried about that. Just an observation regarding setting customer expectations with courteous reminders and suggestions.
Juan Pablo
on 11 Nov 08Wouldnt be nice to know whats next on basecamp and all other 37signals apps? :)
We dont know what to expect, I mean, we always want the best-new-most-expected-killer-feature because you build great software, but we dont know really what is coming and when. I know that is not your way of working, but maybe some kind of survey to your clients or something like that could make us happier than we are!
JF
on 11 Nov 08Juan, we do surveys a few times a year. Just did one for Backpack last week, in fact.
Grégory Karékinian
on 11 Nov 08So basically, you’d want them to be agile? One day, maybe.
Michael Hargreaves
on 11 Nov 08Juan almost beat me to it… “Hey, so far we’ve finished A B and C. Tomorrow we’ll be doing D. Here’s what you can expect” is exactly the kind of comment I’d like to see from 37signals. “I know it’s not your way of working” – isn’t that the problem with the roofing company that Jason’s addressing? Maybe it should be.
JF
on 11 Nov 08Michael/Juan: Apples and oranges. We’re not roofing your house and pouring soot onto your furniture. They roof houses every day. Have been for 100 years. They know what usually happens during a roofing project. They can tell me with pretty good certainty what may happen during the project. This is an ongoing project with immediate consequences.
We’re building software. We don’t know exactly what’s gonna be released next or when it’s going to be released. What we’re doing right now doesn’t have any impact on your current experience (unlike a roofer who is raining soot down right now because of what they are doing right now). Making suggestions about something we may do ahead of time is setting the wrong expectations.
@ Elaine
on 11 Nov 08Why?
Tim Jahn
on 11 Nov 08I agree with Jason. These guys do fairly consistent work and are aware of the general effects their work has on the surrounding environment. Therefore, they could definitely provide some basic customer expectations for duration of their work.
The side effects of their work are mostly destructive too. They destroyed a bush or two, soot fell on furniture, etc. They’re better off telling the customer this is going to happen and then even if it doesn’t, things weren’t damaged. Better to be preventive in this sense.
Derek K. Miller
on 11 Nov 08Question: have you suggested these things to your roofing contractor so they can do better business for future customers?
In any construction or renovation project, it would indeed be nice to have some sense of what to expect. But as Emily said, with roofing in particular, it seems that the bar for a “good experience” is very low indeed.
That you have a company that knows what it’s doing and is doing a competent job, with a long history and a good client base, is what I might consider FANTASTIC in the roofing business. Back in 1994, we had what we thought was a reputable roofer, but he brought in some barely trained and not very clever guys to do the work, and didn’t supervise them properly (I think he spent his time going from job to job). So:
- They smashed a large plate glass window above our front steps with a ladder, and had to replace it. - After stripping off the old roofing material, they didn’t tarp over it at the end of the day, so when we had a rainstorm that night (this is Vancouver, so one should expect that), we had leaks throughout the house, damaging ceilings and paint. - Their torches set a birds’ nest under one of the eaves on fire, so we had to call in the fire department, who needed to chop out part of the roof and the underlying wood to get the flames out, necessitating further repairs. - The whole project took several weeks, about three times as long as quoted.
Sure, we ended up not paying very much after all the damage and delays, but I would rather have paid a fair rate and had the job done right the first time.
I’ve heard numerous similar stories from others about roofing in particular, so, sad to say, simply having a company that does a good job but doesn’t warn you about messes, smells, or noise might be the best you can expect, at least for now.
Adam Fitzgerald
on 11 Nov 08@George I bet there’s equally as many good stories about builders. Humans aren’t that great about acknowledging when things go the way they expect, or better :)
Anecdotes aren’t as entertaining if they were “I had a builder come out and he put my roof on perfectly. I didn’t notice he was there, and at the end of the week, I had a new roof”. Not really one for the grand kids.
GeeIWonder
on 11 Nov 08Back in 1994, we had what we thought was a reputable roofer, but he brought in some barely trained and not very clever guys to do the work, and didn’t supervise them properly (I think he spent his time going from job to job)
That’s on you.
Don’t do your homework, don’t pay a fair rate up front, you reap what you sow.
John
on 11 Nov 08They are tearing the roof off your house. How can you not expect something to go “a little off” ...
These are not “communicators”. These are guys who rip the roofs off of houses. And since they keep getting business, even from picky people with a little money to burn, then … what incentive do they have.
By setting zero expectations, they are actually doing themselves a favor. If they lulled you to sleep with sweet talk, and then everything goes haywire then you’d be caught off guard. At least now you know that you need to be a bit proactive whenever having a side to your home removed and replaced.
Matt
on 11 Nov 08You forget that construction workers simply don’t give a fuck.
Juan Pablo
on 11 Nov 08Ok, I didnt know about the surveys, and thats a good thing to have, and the surprise factor of new features also is a great thing to have.
Ian Lotinsky
on 11 Nov 08I had a walk-in/out surgical procedure done once at a dermatologist’s. When he was done and left the office, I got up to leave, immediately felt light-headed, and promptly passed out cold. The nursing staff heard me fall and ran in to make sure I was okay. One of them handed me water while another one assured me that “This is quite normal. It happens to a lot of patients.” A warning would have been nice. :D
@@Elaine
on 11 Nov 08I was imagining how this would effect the “surprises in the bedroom.” Sorry Jason, I just think your cute.
Marko Lokas
on 11 Nov 081 word. Ask.
JD
on 11 Nov 08I’ll tell you all about the surprises in the bedroom.
Tom Davis
on 12 Nov 08There exists a strong possibility that roofers don’t know what goes on inside a house they are re-roofing. After all, they aren’t actually inside, and are probably not being invited in. They might be just as surprised about the black dust on the top floor and smoke in the house as you are.
It might also be the case that some of the problems you experience are unusual. Perhaps most attics are sufficiently vented that smoke almost never enters the living areas. After all, if you did research for recommendations on line, one would expect that you would have come across common experiences listed on more than one site.
I know that one of the biggest problems I have is getting feedback from users.
Anonymous Coward
on 12 Nov 08Blue. Collar.
Ewan
on 12 Nov 08It is possible to get a builder to do agile: http://www.eachan.com/2008/11/my-agile-construction-yard.html
dusoft
on 12 Nov 08And, you haven’t asked what they would be doing the next day? Kinda naive. You have to be prepared for the worst.
CJ Curtis
on 12 Nov 08we’re talking about construction workers, right? they didn’t go to school to study communications and political science.
i bet they would love to see you carry 100 bags of shingles up a ladder and onto the roof.
Geoff Teehan
on 12 Nov 08It’s not just about contractors setting expectation with their customers, it’s also about customers having realistic expectations of their contractors – it’s a balance.
In your case they could have made you aware upfront of some of the potential issues they typically see – but don’t expect a daily status.
Don Schenck
on 12 Nov 08Jason—had a new roof put on our house this past spring. We opted for a high-priced roofer and had pretty much the opposite experience. The guy did a fantastic job of laying out what would happen, in what order, and what OUR responsibilities were as well as theirs.
$7,200 later, I’m pleased.
Wow … consider that: I’m PLEASED with the $7,200 I spent!
Don Schenck
on 12 Nov 08@CJ Curtis: I’m a “techie”. I’m also an amateur bodybuilder. So yeah, I could do that!
Don 1, Stereotype 0.
kyle steed
on 12 Nov 08Great perspective. Make me realize, again, how important simple, effective communication is between client and contractor.
Thanks.
Richard
on 12 Nov 08Jason, maybe you should start talking to people, ask them, communicate, be curious. Offer them some snacks when they make a break, and chat over the meal. Just be a nice and social person. It works.
Danielle M Kellogg
on 13 Nov 08Interesting. We encountered similar issues when we recently had a pool installed. The work was excellent, but the not knowing leaves you feeling more helpless than necessary. Another point is that the communication that would have alleviated this doesn’t have to cost a dime, and leaves you feeling far more satisfied and that the service is that more professional than others. Services by their very nature, cross boundaries. To help that feeling of vulnerability, a little “excuse me”, “sorry”, “this is what we’re going to do, and what you should expect” and “here’s what we’re about to do next” goes a long way.
Scott Semple
on 13 Nov 08@Jason: Very well put. Regarding what’s going to happen tomorrow: show them the blog post. That oughtta get the point across nicely…
CJ Curtis
on 13 Nov 08Don wrote: ”@CJ Curtis: I’m a “techie”. I’m also an amateur bodybuilder. So yeah, I could do that! Don 1, Stereotype 0.”
Wow Don…I am impressed. Really.
The point is that they bust their ass every waking day. Not to say they’re stupid. I just don’t think the typical construction worker subscribes to all the BS I’m reading here.
Mike
on 16 Nov 08@CJ Curtis – You don’t hire a typical construction worker to roof your house or for any job for that matter. You hire a licenced contractor, roofer, plumber, whatever. Managing the typical construction worker is part of their job and that’s why they’re in charge.
There are a lot of excuses here about why Jason’s experience is ok or expected. Thats a load of dung. The companies should be better at serving their customers. But since we can’t always count on that we should always be up front and ask questions about how the work will get done. If they don’t set our expectations, we do it ourselves with assumptions.
CJ Curtis
on 17 Nov 08A contractor is a construction worker.
Where I’m from, you hire someone you know and someone you trust. So if something like this happens, you have no problem going outside and asking WTF is going on.
zephyr
on 17 Nov 08Unfortunately, that sounds like the common experience when working with contractors.
This discussion is closed.