It’s interesting how the Windows UI has gotten more bright an colorful as time has gone on. The OSX User Interface on the other hand, is almost entirely grey now, save application icons.
If your job required you to listen all day long, would you prefer a system that was loud all the time, or a system that was quiet all the time, only making noise when required?
Alejandro Moreno
on 12 Jan 09
“Let’s add folder links in the Location Bar”
“Great Idea!”
“But we can’t just make a link like ‘user / My Documents’. That’s boring, and what’s worse, it’s literally how folders are represented in the text Console. We have to change it somehow …”
@kevin Funny that you would comment on that aspect. I kept hearing the exact opposite when OS X came out. People touted the fact that OS X was more colorful, while Windows was dull gray. Old is new again?
Daniel
on 12 Jan 09
@Kevin and @Dylan
Well, by Apple’s standards, OS X was pretty colorful when it first came out. Windows, on the other hand, is still trying to get back to Windows 1.01, the we-have-16-colors-and-must-use-them-all edition (I read that nickname somewhere here on SvN, I think)
here’s a couple of screenshots from Win 1.01:
http://www.guidebookgallery.org/screenshots/win101
scott
on 12 Jan 09
Have you looked at Finder’s PathBar?
Finder has arrows too all over the place. Especially if you have multiple USB drivers connected.
Here’s a link found via google:
http://osx411.com/wp-content/path-1.jpg
I think the difference is proximity to the other arrows.
It actually makes more sense than slashes to a normal user. I actually prefer the way Windows does it because it’s very easy to go back to other folders in the hierarchy. I had to turn on those features in OS X, but the point is they use arrows just like Windows. Anyway I guess I’m being a buzzkill but I didn’t think it was that funny, because it looks so similar to my finder :p
Anonymous Coward
on 12 Jan 09
@Dylan @Daniel, That’s sort of my point. OSX is nearly all grey now. Gone are the gumdrops, candy colors, pinstripes and brushed metal. All things that drew attention to the UI, when what you really want out of an OS User Interface, that you have to stare at for 10 hours a day, is that it gets out of your way.
I consider it an evolution. The Vista/7 Aero burns my retinas.
kevin
on 12 Jan 09
(oops, didn’t fill out the reqs, apologies for the double)
@Dylan @Daniel, That’s sort of my point. OSX is nearly all grey now. Gone are the gumdrops, candy colors, pinstripes and brushed metal. All things that drew attention to the UI, when what you really want out of an OS User Interface, that you have to stare at for 10 hours a day, is that it gets out of your way.
I consider it an evolution. The Vista/7 Aero burns my retinas.
Anonymous Coward
on 12 Jan 09
Anyway I guess I’m being a buzzkill but I didn’t think it was that funny, because it looks so similar to my finder
It looks nothing like the Finder. You’ll find 7 different arrow styles in the Windows 7 Explorer bar alone (maybe more).
AHA! Now this is funny. It has been worth suffering all the recent drivel for this. ;)
Matt
on 12 Jan 09
I don’t get it. It’s basically the same as Vista’s Explorer.
Matchu
on 12 Jan 09
That’s pretty much right. The major changes weren’t in the Explorer, but rather in fixing Vista’s big issues – slowness, instability, proclivity to spam the user with various dialogs, etc. :P
Matt, the joke is in regards to arrows pointing in different directions all over the place in the Windows Explorer UI, just like in the game. It’s overdesigned, as opposed to say Mac OS, which is arguably under-designed.
Whilst Windows has hundreds of ways to do everything little thing almost, in some ways that’s part of its appeal – you end up picking useful shortcuts etc very quickly despite all the clutter, whereas in Mac OS Finder I rely on the mouse more and need to often read up the one true way defined by Apple on how to do something (or don’t find it at all). Finder ends up being slower to use (and limited in ways, e.g. integrated FTP uploads), but neat features like less chaotic interface, color tagging and spring-loaded folders still give it it’s own appeal.
IMHO the redesigned explorer interface above is totally functional and great to use in my opinion (I don’t have time to notice the arrows!).
@Daniel: Crikey, i’ve just looked at that Windows 1.01 link you posted. What do i see? A running applications bar pretty much exactly the same as Windows 7 now has again! :D
Matchu
on 12 Jan 09
Wait, what? Yes, they remodeled the taskbar. But it’s only a matter of clicks to get it back to the old setup ;P
Dance Dance Revolution is actually a bit more user friendly here. Arrows clearly denote one type of thing. In the screenshot you provided there are 5 different styles/types of arrows all denoting different objects/actions.
Superangel
on 13 Jan 09
It should be noted that Vista and Windows 7 allow the interface color, opacity et al. to be fine tuned to your tastes. So if subtle gray is your thing, then it’s not a problem. Personally I like a little color when working with a computer all day long, but each to their own, I can certainly see how it could be distracting.
As for the arrows, if you’re a new user then certainly Explorer is overwhelming. Some things are familiar, like the back and forward buttons, but others are not, like using breadcrumb arrows instead of slashes. However, credit where credit is due, the breadcrumb system works really nicely, it’s just presented in confusing way to those other than experienced users.
MichalT
on 13 Jan 09
(3) Your point is?
MichalT
on 13 Jan 09
Ok, I get it, Apple fanboys trying to be funny. And to think SVN used to be a nice little blog.
Man, don’t take things too personal there! I found that absolutely hilarious and I’m a longtime Windows user (now mostly using OSX though). Some people don’t seem to possess a healthy sense of humor…
Besides, I don’t think this post was pro- apple/osx at all. I’m no 37s fanboy, but SVN is the blog of a software company that design software and seem to be meticulous about the user interfaces they design. They’ve released books on designing software, one specifically on UI design. I think it’s alright for them to post a humorous critique on an infamous UI, no?
The fact that you thought it was a pro-apple post is more telling of you than it is of 37s. Just sayin.
When I see little arrows like that (especially the little one next to the forward/back arrows) my sense of Fitt’s law gets all irritated. Even if the clickable area itself is larger than the arrow graphic, they look like they’d be very frustrating.
Not to mention that I have absolutely no idea what that particular arrow and the two at the far right are meant to do, just from looking at them.
On the other hand, I think the arrows subtly suggest a better mental model to the conventional slashes. Slashes are characters used in progamming languages to denote file paths. Arrows say that the user has “gone from here to here.”
I purchased my first Vista powered machine about a month ago. I’m STILL getting used to Explorer’s address bar button-ery. I miss the little folder-up-arrow icon for moving back up a directory.
Sadly it’s not just Microsoft making these kinds of mistakes and clearly not user testing things…
If a plain user doesn’t use it, remove it! I loved the way ICQ used to switch between newb/advanced user… it wasn’t perfect but being able to go from a plain interfact (Nintendo Wii) to adding all the extra options on top was a really nice way of balancing it out for the novice/super users.
Dave
on 13 Jan 09
Speaking as a long time Windows user and software developer, the first time I opened Vista Explorer, I wasn’t impressed. But after tweaking it a bit here and there and getting used to it, I find that it works quite well.
Although software dev is my day job, I also provide computer support to several small businesses and individuals in the evenings. I find that the vast majority of users barely know what Windows Explorer is; even less know how to use it efficiently.
Make snide remarks about Windows users if you will, but the reality (in my opinion) is that Explorer is used primarily by people who know what they’re doing. Most users get by without needing it very much. As such, a somewhat “arrow-intensive” interface serves its purpose fine.
I spend my life struggling with “enterprise-class” software UIs. If the Windows Explorer UI was the worst I ever had to deal with, my professional life would be practically trouble-free.
mack
on 14 Jan 09
since you all seem to have such strong opinions on what is good design, what would you propose the windows UI does differently?
tiago
on 14 Jan 09
not funny.
Craig
on 14 Jan 09
@Kai Chan Vong:
Wouldn’t you consider an open beta to be “user testing”?
Anon E. Mous
on 14 Jan 09
I’ve read the comments and I still don’t see what’s funny? Anyone care to explain? Just not getting it…
Greg
on 14 Jan 09
actually, win 7 is kicking ass. apple – expect your increasing market share to lose some speed. ( i love it so far … it’s so fast and stable i want to use it for work … but won’t until it won’t expire on me. )
those arrows pull down directories from that point … i think it’s awesome actually … quite efficient.
but for some of you 1 button mouse people … yeah … it can be a little complicated.
bob
on 14 Jan 09
Mac has no arrows?
Anonymous Coward
on 14 Jan 09
Who said anything about a Mac? This is a Windows screenshot.
Dave
on 14 Jan 09
Looks like this has to be spelled out for some. The divider arrows between directories are one set of arrows, but many commenters are missing the others. From left to right:
- back arrow (blue button)
- forward arrow (blue button)
- down arrow (next to blue button)
- double back arrow (address bar)
- forward arrow (address bar)
- forward arrow (address bar)
- down arrow (address bar)
- up arrow (refresh button)
- down arrow (refresh button)
Can we not all agree that that is a very high arrow-to-pixel ratio?
Josh
on 12 Jan 09And Windows 7 isn’t nearly as fun, either.
pmlarocque
on 12 Jan 09haha! good one!
Glenn Weatherson
on 12 Jan 09Basically.
Brooks Jordan
on 12 Jan 09That makes my morning.
Steven Hilton
on 12 Jan 09Needs more arrows.
I’ve got a fever, and the only prescription is … more arrows.
Nate Bird
on 12 Jan 09Wow. It took a second to see it but now all I see is arrows.
BJ Neilsen
on 12 Jan 09Freaking classic. Absolutely priceless.
Tim Jahn
on 12 Jan 09The more Windows tries to be “cool” or “hip”, the dumber it looks.
Gayle Bird
on 12 Jan 09Oh my. I’m looking forward to the new Windows less and less.
Also: Bwah!
Jeff Putz
on 12 Jan 09DDR FTW every time. And none of that Guitar Hero crap… that’s DDR for fat people.
Ben
on 12 Jan 09Had me spitting coffee through my nose =)
kevin
on 12 Jan 09It’s interesting how the Windows UI has gotten more bright an colorful as time has gone on. The OSX User Interface on the other hand, is almost entirely grey now, save application icons.
If your job required you to listen all day long, would you prefer a system that was loud all the time, or a system that was quiet all the time, only making noise when required?
Alejandro Moreno
on 12 Jan 09“Let’s add folder links in the Location Bar”
“Great Idea!”
“But we can’t just make a link like ‘user / My Documents’. That’s boring, and what’s worse, it’s literally how folders are represented in the text Console. We have to change it somehow …”
“I know! Let’s use arrows!”
Dylan Bennett
on 12 Jan 09@kevin Funny that you would comment on that aspect. I kept hearing the exact opposite when OS X came out. People touted the fact that OS X was more colorful, while Windows was dull gray. Old is new again?
Daniel
on 12 Jan 09@Kevin and @Dylan
Well, by Apple’s standards, OS X was pretty colorful when it first came out. Windows, on the other hand, is still trying to get back to Windows 1.01, the we-have-16-colors-and-must-use-them-all edition (I read that nickname somewhere here on SvN, I think)
here’s a couple of screenshots from Win 1.01:
http://www.guidebookgallery.org/screenshots/win101
scott
on 12 Jan 09Have you looked at Finder’s PathBar?
Finder has arrows too all over the place. Especially if you have multiple USB drivers connected.
Here’s a link found via google: http://osx411.com/wp-content/path-1.jpg
I think the difference is proximity to the other arrows.
Daniel
on 12 Jan 09Let me try that again with an A-tag:
http://www.guidebookgallery.org/screenshots/win101
aah, that’s better
Paul Smith
on 12 Jan 09OS X uses arrows as well:
http://img.skitch.com/20090112-r8gqeymw1t56m2tp31yfw19p7q.jpg
http://img.skitch.com/20090112-c7u5jat25kxf44n98siufngp8k.jpg
It actually makes more sense than slashes to a normal user. I actually prefer the way Windows does it because it’s very easy to go back to other folders in the hierarchy. I had to turn on those features in OS X, but the point is they use arrows just like Windows. Anyway I guess I’m being a buzzkill but I didn’t think it was that funny, because it looks so similar to my finder :p
Anonymous Coward
on 12 Jan 09@Dylan @Daniel, That’s sort of my point. OSX is nearly all grey now. Gone are the gumdrops, candy colors, pinstripes and brushed metal. All things that drew attention to the UI, when what you really want out of an OS User Interface, that you have to stare at for 10 hours a day, is that it gets out of your way.
I consider it an evolution. The Vista/7 Aero burns my retinas.
kevin
on 12 Jan 09(oops, didn’t fill out the reqs, apologies for the double)
@Dylan @Daniel, That’s sort of my point. OSX is nearly all grey now. Gone are the gumdrops, candy colors, pinstripes and brushed metal. All things that drew attention to the UI, when what you really want out of an OS User Interface, that you have to stare at for 10 hours a day, is that it gets out of your way.
I consider it an evolution. The Vista/7 Aero burns my retinas.
Anonymous Coward
on 12 Jan 09It looks nothing like the Finder. You’ll find 7 different arrow styles in the Windows 7 Explorer bar alone (maybe more).
acarback
on 12 Jan 09Good bit of afternoon humor… love it.
Colin Guthrie
on 12 Jan 09There’s only one arrow missing…. So Internet Explorer doesn’t know which way is up? :p
(Pedants: I know there is the refresh arrow that kinda points up but it’s slightly off axis ;))
Manas Tungare
on 12 Jan 09Microsoft Research is already on their way to a full DDR interface.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060301-6296.html
Dana
on 12 Jan 09Yeah Windows (especially v.7) pretty much looks like a pile of wet lollypops to me these days. I can’t stand it.
Matchu
on 12 Jan 09...this went over my head at first. I had to read the comments to get the point :P
Does this mean that you don’t see the arrows until you try to be critical? It almost seems like they blend in just fine until you look for them.
jethrolarson
on 12 Jan 09LOL
AHA
on 12 Jan 09AHA! Now this is funny. It has been worth suffering all the recent drivel for this. ;)
Matt
on 12 Jan 09I don’t get it. It’s basically the same as Vista’s Explorer.
Matchu
on 12 Jan 09That’s pretty much right. The major changes weren’t in the Explorer, but rather in fixing Vista’s big issues – slowness, instability, proclivity to spam the user with various dialogs, etc. :P
Alex King
on 12 Jan 09LOL
Gaurav Sharma
on 12 Jan 09Matt, the joke is in regards to arrows pointing in different directions all over the place in the Windows Explorer UI, just like in the game. It’s overdesigned, as opposed to say Mac OS, which is arguably under-designed.
Whilst Windows has hundreds of ways to do everything little thing almost, in some ways that’s part of its appeal – you end up picking useful shortcuts etc very quickly despite all the clutter, whereas in Mac OS Finder I rely on the mouse more and need to often read up the one true way defined by Apple on how to do something (or don’t find it at all). Finder ends up being slower to use (and limited in ways, e.g. integrated FTP uploads), but neat features like less chaotic interface, color tagging and spring-loaded folders still give it it’s own appeal.
IMHO the redesigned explorer interface above is totally functional and great to use in my opinion (I don’t have time to notice the arrows!).
aimee.mychores.co.uk
on 12 Jan 09@Daniel: Crikey, i’ve just looked at that Windows 1.01 link you posted. What do i see? A running applications bar pretty much exactly the same as Windows 7 now has again! :D
Matchu
on 12 Jan 09Wait, what? Yes, they remodeled the taskbar. But it’s only a matter of clicks to get it back to the old setup ;P
Jeremy Ricketts
on 13 Jan 09Okay now, THAT was funny.
Jeremy Ricketts
on 13 Jan 09Dance Dance Revolution is actually a bit more user friendly here. Arrows clearly denote one type of thing. In the screenshot you provided there are 5 different styles/types of arrows all denoting different objects/actions.
Superangel
on 13 Jan 09It should be noted that Vista and Windows 7 allow the interface color, opacity et al. to be fine tuned to your tastes. So if subtle gray is your thing, then it’s not a problem. Personally I like a little color when working with a computer all day long, but each to their own, I can certainly see how it could be distracting.
As for the arrows, if you’re a new user then certainly Explorer is overwhelming. Some things are familiar, like the back and forward buttons, but others are not, like using breadcrumb arrows instead of slashes. However, credit where credit is due, the breadcrumb system works really nicely, it’s just presented in confusing way to those other than experienced users.
MichalT
on 13 Jan 09(3) Your point is?
MichalT
on 13 Jan 09Ok, I get it, Apple fanboys trying to be funny. And to think SVN used to be a nice little blog.
Soleone
on 13 Jan 09@MichaIT
Man, don’t take things too personal there! I found that absolutely hilarious and I’m a longtime Windows user (now mostly using OSX though). Some people don’t seem to possess a healthy sense of humor…
Erick Xavier
on 13 Jan 09sweeeeet…
Fabio
on 13 Jan 09@MichaIT:
Besides, I don’t think this post was pro- apple/osx at all. I’m no 37s fanboy, but SVN is the blog of a software company that design software and seem to be meticulous about the user interfaces they design. They’ve released books on designing software, one specifically on UI design. I think it’s alright for them to post a humorous critique on an infamous UI, no?
The fact that you thought it was a pro-apple post is more telling of you than it is of 37s. Just sayin.
bvs
on 13 Jan 09Those arrows are power packed pockets of productivity (especially the ones in the address bar).
FredS
on 13 Jan 09Stolen.Zero.
Tom Bland
on 13 Jan 09When I see little arrows like that (especially the little one next to the forward/back arrows) my sense of Fitt’s law gets all irritated. Even if the clickable area itself is larger than the arrow graphic, they look like they’d be very frustrating.
Not to mention that I have absolutely no idea what that particular arrow and the two at the far right are meant to do, just from looking at them.
On the other hand, I think the arrows subtly suggest a better mental model to the conventional slashes. Slashes are characters used in progamming languages to denote file paths. Arrows say that the user has “gone from here to here.”
Matt Brown
on 13 Jan 09I purchased my first Vista powered machine about a month ago. I’m STILL getting used to Explorer’s address bar button-ery. I miss the little folder-up-arrow icon for moving back up a directory.
Kai Chan Vong
on 13 Jan 09Sadly it’s not just Microsoft making these kinds of mistakes and clearly not user testing things…
If a plain user doesn’t use it, remove it! I loved the way ICQ used to switch between newb/advanced user… it wasn’t perfect but being able to go from a plain interfact (Nintendo Wii) to adding all the extra options on top was a really nice way of balancing it out for the novice/super users.
Dave
on 13 Jan 09Speaking as a long time Windows user and software developer, the first time I opened Vista Explorer, I wasn’t impressed. But after tweaking it a bit here and there and getting used to it, I find that it works quite well.
Although software dev is my day job, I also provide computer support to several small businesses and individuals in the evenings. I find that the vast majority of users barely know what Windows Explorer is; even less know how to use it efficiently.
Make snide remarks about Windows users if you will, but the reality (in my opinion) is that Explorer is used primarily by people who know what they’re doing. Most users get by without needing it very much. As such, a somewhat “arrow-intensive” interface serves its purpose fine.
I spend my life struggling with “enterprise-class” software UIs. If the Windows Explorer UI was the worst I ever had to deal with, my professional life would be practically trouble-free.
mack
on 14 Jan 09since you all seem to have such strong opinions on what is good design, what would you propose the windows UI does differently?
tiago
on 14 Jan 09not funny.
Craig
on 14 Jan 09@Kai Chan Vong: Wouldn’t you consider an open beta to be “user testing”?
Anon E. Mous
on 14 Jan 09I’ve read the comments and I still don’t see what’s funny? Anyone care to explain? Just not getting it…
Greg
on 14 Jan 09actually, win 7 is kicking ass. apple – expect your increasing market share to lose some speed. ( i love it so far … it’s so fast and stable i want to use it for work … but won’t until it won’t expire on me. )
those arrows pull down directories from that point … i think it’s awesome actually … quite efficient.
but for some of you 1 button mouse people … yeah … it can be a little complicated.
bob
on 14 Jan 09Mac has no arrows?
Anonymous Coward
on 14 Jan 09Who said anything about a Mac? This is a Windows screenshot.
Dave
on 14 Jan 09Looks like this has to be spelled out for some. The divider arrows between directories are one set of arrows, but many commenters are missing the others. From left to right:
- back arrow (blue button) - forward arrow (blue button) - down arrow (next to blue button) - double back arrow (address bar) - forward arrow (address bar) - forward arrow (address bar) - down arrow (address bar) - up arrow (refresh button) - down arrow (refresh button)
Can we not all agree that that is a very high arrow-to-pixel ratio?
Anonymous Coward
on 14 Jan 09And the 37signals version:
/assets/svn/images/186-reorder-pages.png
CJ Curtis
on 15 Jan 09I’m about to have a seizure.
Tomas Sancio
on 15 Jan 09Although it’s a cheap shot, it’s still funny. As for the arrows, they pay homage to Seattle’s American Indian heritage.
Philip Seyfi
on 17 Jan 09Although the comparison is quite funny, the actual user interface is very functional and superior to OSX…
This discussion is closed.