I’m not surprised that Jeff Bezos didn’t recognize the Amazon depicted by Inside Amazon: Wrestling Big Ideas in a Bruising Workplace, a NYT exposé on its culture. Jeff would never have heard those stories, because nobody would ever tell him. These are the stories you have to dig for, and the NYT did.
Whether the overall, pretty glum, picture painted of Amazon work culture is perfectly accurate isn’t even that interesting. It’s certainly not an adequate defense to deflect the questions raised, as one Amazon high-level but rookie manager tried to do. There are more than enough anecdotes, supposedly gathered by more than 100 interviews with current and former employees of Amazon, to raise more than a few red flags.
How you respond to a red flag is what matters. You can deny its very existence. You can argue that it’s not really red, but more of an orange pink. You can argue that the people holding the flag aren’t true Amazonians. You can argue that the people who caused the red flags to fly were rogue actors, going against the intentions of the company. Or you can simply just claim that since you hadn’t personally seen any of the incidents, the flags are illegitimate on their face.
But the bottom line is that culture is what culture does. Culture isn’t what you intend it to be. It’s not what you hope or aspire for it to be. It’s what you do. There’s no way to discredit, deflect, or diffuse that basic truth.
Here’s how that can play out: High-level manager A gives mid-level manager B a tough, maybe even impossible, goal. Maybe A ties a bonus or dangles a promotion to the fulfillment of that goal. Now set that in context of WE ARE THE SMARTEST, WE WORK THE HARDEST.
How hard do you think B is going to push subordinate C to reach the goal? To not fail BEING SMART, WORKING HARD? Do you think that some meaningful number of times, C might feel such aggregated heat from two layers of management that it could resemble some of the anecdotes from the NYT article (and then imagine 3-4-5 layers of management)? If so, do you think A is blameless, and do you think the organization that serves as context for this scenario is blameless? I don’t.
“But that’s not what I meant” is an adequate, if somewhat naive, excuse the first time you see the consequences of your actions. The second, third, or fifth time, it’s a lot less so. At some point “unintended side effects” becomes “predictable outcomes”.
The NYT did Amazon a favor. They shone a bright light on some dank corners of the organization and its work culture. Corners that had long been rumored to exist. Now it’s out in the open, and Amazon can seize the catalyst for a thorough audit of the gap between what Jeff wants the place to be and how it sometimes isn’t.
To do so, Jeff, and other senior management at Amazon, need to remember that nobody tells you anything when it comes to bubbling-up abuse from the trenches. It’s completely unrealistic to expect someone five levels deep in the bowels of the organization to reach out to the fifth-richest man in the world and trouble him with his or her toils. It doesn’t matter how many invitations to open doors, escalators, or elevators you extend, it’s just not going to happen.
The only reliable way to get this sort of information is to ask. You cannot just extend the “open door” invitation, lean back in your executive chair, and think that you’ve done all you can.
Jeff, or a team he charges with finding facts (and not protecting egos or appearances), has to follow up on the leads, examine the stories, identify root causes, and propose sanctions and remedies. And Amazon has to be willing to accept that maybe some of its systems are producing consequences it does not desire, and that they should change.
Disclaimer: Jeff Bezos personally owns a minority, non-voting stake in Basecamp acquired in 2006. That makes this case personal for me. Factor in that bias. Also, this exact problem, top-level management being the last to know, is why we created KnowYourCompany.com.
Marya
on 18 Aug 15I’m reading the book Humble Inquiry by Edgar H. Schein right now (so good) and it shares your premise. Leaders need to listen, but listening is hard because it requires being humble and vulnerable (I am not doing the book justice right now.). Schein goes on to talk about cultures, as well, and how there are often underlying values at odds with each other, that also makes it hard for people to listen/hear each other.
PG
on 18 Aug 15I once reported sexual harassment to a supervisor ( a university professor ) and was ignored.
I once reported physical assault and theft to a supervisor ( a state court judge ). First I was ignored and then I was given an armed escort off the premises.
This Amazon story is the story of the default workplace in the USA. I gave up on reporting – but I also gave up on the default workplace. I now work remotely with great productivity and zero BS and have enjoyed a fantastic 12 year working relationship with my supervisor.
Steve M
on 18 Aug 15I consider this a crucial moment in their evolution. The numbers last quarter were pretty amazing. The ability to land product at your door within an hour should cement their retail strength even further. However, it’s vital that they continue to attract and retain the best talent and a story like this means that just became more difficult.
We are told that Amazon have taken a hands off approach to Zappos, well maybe they could take a little of their company culture as they always seem to rank highly in terms of best places to work.
Robert
on 18 Aug 15I have done significant business with very senior people at Amazon (global leaders who report to Bezos) and, based on my experience, there is no doubt in my mind that this toxic culture exists and that the source of it is Bezos. These people work every day with a fear in the back of their minds that each day could be the last. I’m sure he has no idea about the specific instances cited in the article but I find it impossible to believe that he’s not intimately familiar with the culture he created.
Richard
on 18 Aug 15Is it not the responsibility of the CEO to track hiring, firing? The data will speak for itself.. after a very grueling interview process people bail in less than a year.. across the entire company.. tons of money is spent on hiring.. for a company that prides on being frugal I do not buy that he did not know it..
David Wolfe
on 18 Aug 15This is a great article. I love the implicit conclusion that all in the organization are responsible – in particular executive A who is setting the “BEHAG” goal for mid-level manager B, quoting a platitude and remaining comfortably distanced from the “human capital externalities”, the real costs for workers C,D … who are toiling to realize the “BEHAG” goal.
The real challenge Amazon faces is this : though its culture may be (probably is) toxic, it is producing results. This is the uncomfortable reality. What are Amazon’s incentives to change the culture; negative publicity via the NYT? The only way Amazon SHIFTs its culture is if Jeff Bezos and his cadre of senior executives believe that SHIFTing the culture will result in more innovation, higher productivity, better outcomes, etc. Treating employee’s well as an end to itself is rarely a sufficient incentive to change a culture, in my humble opinion. There has to be a deep belief that by SHIFTing the culture Amazon can be more effective and more valuable.
The answer is a resounding yes. The data is out there. There is no doubt that Amazon’s people are its competitive advantage. Think about what Amazon could do if it fully leveraged the expertise and passion of all of its workers – if they felt safe and were intrinsically motivated rather than extrinsically motivated. Taylorist approaches to management have been debunked in knowledge work again and again. I highly recommend “Lean Enterprise: How High Performance Organizations Innovate at Scale” for a discussion about how culture impacts firm performance.
John Locke
on 18 Aug 15Amazon’s culture is not unique. It is a story because those of us inside the technology culture like to believe that our industry is different. That we are better than the people on Wall Street or in the corporate boardrooms of the last half century.
This type of work culture is common because it produces results. The cost, however, is the mental, physical and emotional health of it’s employees.
Corporations like Amazon will always attract new talent. Recruits think they can handle the pressure. Perhaps they want the bragging rights or the experience on their resume. Some people might not have known exactly what they were signing up for until they already signed on the line that is dotted.
Amazon the corporation (like many others in other sectors) advances by using the human talent it has, and replacing those cogs when they can no longer bear the strain.
There is a lot to do with fear once you’ve signed a contract to do a job. Fear of speaking out, fear of getting fired or reprimanded. When you’re working 80 hours a week for two years in a row, your brain doesn’t process that fear in a rational manner either.
In this regard, a toxic work culture is still toxic, no matter if it is in the tech sector or any other sector.
In the end, it’s up to Amazon how they want to build their culture, but at least future recruits will be forewarned of what they can expect.
BillP
on 19 Aug 15Your post is well-written David, but you are being far too kind. Mr. Bezos knows exactly what his company is doing.
Now… You bring up an excellent point – a boss who cares would request an audit of these “shocking” findings. As third-party employees of Jeff Bezos, you or Mr. Fried are in the interesting position of being able to perform such an audit. You both also have the street cred in the creative/IT world such that people could speak to you without fear of the almost-certain and ruthless reprisals. Her’s your chance to do something (possibly) even more important than Rails.
Food for thought…
Gary Bury
on 19 Aug 15I too think you are being too kind to Mr Beezos – Amazon’s workplace culture has been the subject of media attention of many years, and the reason many people boycott them. This BBC investigation was from 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXWJ4GfQ22E
The NYT article may have finally raised eyebrows, but Mr Beezos must have had his head in the sand not to know about this earlier – and I simply can’t believe that’s true.
I’ve personally wondered how you guys reconciled that you preach one thing about working culture, yet work with and praise a shareholder who runs almost the entire opposite.
Piotr
on 19 Aug 15“Amazon has to be willing to accept that maybe some of its systems are producing consequences it does not desire, and that they should change.”
The behavior of a system (here Amazon) is based on, among other things, its ‘goals’. Amazon’s goal is best customer (consumer) happiness through 1. Cheapest prices 2. Availability and 3. Fastest delivery. Being the best at these often comes down to Amazon’s innovation prowess. Too often though it is about squeezing margins on absolutely everything and getting as much out of its employees and contractors as possible.
David – would you agree that the goal of competing on price (see Walmart, Tesco, Amazon) ultimately hurts its workforce unless you have boundaries in place to avoid these situations? Because after you trim all the fat from your enterprise, you start going after the fat in your organs, which is actually necessary to support your organism. Hurt your organs and your body is going to wither and die.
John
on 19 Aug 15David, absolutely the best response I’ve read about the NYT article to date. You nailed it: “culture is what culture does.” It doesn’t really matter how accurate the article is. There is always some measure of truth in any observation or perception. They just don’t materialize out of thin air. Amazon is getting exactly what they built, it is successful, and they will continue to be successful.
We all like to believe we will boycott this and that company for business practices we don’t like. The truth is, we won’t. We like the price and convenience that Amazon offers. My family spends thousands every year with Amazon.
I’d love to see Bezos affect real change, but who are we kidding? Why would he do that? Will his business or stock price suffer because of this PR disaster? No, it won’t, so I wouldn’t be expecting any change. But, as another reader noted, they will have more challenges hiring good people in the future. I, for one, will not consider working there without significant change.
Cris
on 20 Aug 15When the sovereign ponders aloud, “Who will rid me of this troublesome priest?”, stuff happens.
Ever eager to impress, clerks and knights hear “hints” and act. Hence low-level political functionaries badgered Morton-Thiokol into okaying Challenger launch so “the boss” could talk to the crew during his State of the Union address.
Need more proof? Check out how various scriptures are interpreted by zealous believers.
Randy Skopecek
on 20 Aug 15The bottleneck of openness of employees multi-layers deep has certainly happened before. In fact, if you go back into Jack Welch’s books regarding GE you’ll find this exact issue. His “fix” was to hold regular pit meetings where the employees got to either voice their issues directly to the top or by a delegate. I’m not saying it’s the right path. However, if Jeff has a vision and grass roots isn’t feeling it…letting them have a 1-1 in the context of employees-Jeff on a regular basis is certainly a way to cut out the bureaucracy and make progress. If culture and vision is an important asset, and undoubtedly it is, then it’ll take something like that. He could implement some form of tech to help aggregate the info, but at least during this period of “aha” direct contact might be best.
Will P
on 21 Aug 15Amazon has been (and still is) a customer of ours. Dealing with the employees during negotiations about pricing, delivery, quality, etc. is no different that dealing with any other top-tier Silicon Valley company. The die was cast with Apple and the maniacal ranting of Jobs. Bezos knows what his company culture is. He doesn’t care. Why would he? As a previous commenter opined: there are ample cogs waiting in the wings. Such is the business model of EVERY world-class OEM: work young, smart engineers to the breaking point, then find new ones…
Barry
on 21 Aug 15Read the book “The Everything Store” by Brad Stone. An excellent look behind the scenes at Amazon. Lots of toxic behavior, endless demands, burned out people. It starts at the top.
TimS
on 21 Aug 15If the culture weren’t toxic, the Jeff Bezos and his management would believe the article and investigate. It sounds counter-intuitive, but that’s the point. You can’t watch for poor behavior unless you put credibility into the possibility of poor behavior. The reason some firms don’t have this type of problem, or at least at a much smaller level, is that they immediately believe that something is wrong and investigate. Confirmation bias is a powerful barrier to finding (and fixing) problems.
Wilson
on 23 Aug 15Unfortunately I think @Gary Bury says it best (extracting the key comments), “I too think you are being too kind to Mr Beezos – Amazon’s workplace culture has been the subject of media attention of many years, and the reason many people boycott them. ... I’ve personally wondered how you guys reconciled that you preach one thing about working culture, yet work with and praise a shareholder who runs almost the entire opposite.”
As another poster put it, competing to out-Walmart Walmart necessarily leads to these issues unless one goes to lengths to curb that. And I’m not dissing Walmart per se (people might forget their success is founded on progressive technologies and processes just as Amazon, but Walmart never had the benefit of investors willing to let them completely ignore profits with the sole focus of driving out competitors so someday the profits are realized for lack of competition).
Amazon does a lot of very smart and progressive things, no doubt. But it’s long also been a clearly callous if not abusive company, and I’d add that its small business “partners,” those using the site to sell, equally have lots of nightmare stories. I find the notion that Mr. Bezos has been somehow completely blind to this simply laughable. But, as with Walmart, negative press and impacts on recruitment will certainly lead him to at least make some corrections, I also am fairly sure.
John
on 25 Aug 15Amazon does a lot of very smart and progressive things, no doubt. But it’s long also been a clearly callous if not abusive company, and I’d add that its small business “partners,” those using the site to sell, equally have lots of nightmare stories. Mua ho hang nhat I find the notion that Mr. Bezos has been somehow completely blind to this simply laughable. But, as with Walmart, negative press and impacts on recruitment will certainly lead him to at least make some corrections, I also am fairly sure.
This discussion is closed.