For our latest Fireside Chat (a group chat conducted using Campfire), we talked with Mark Fletcher and Marc Hedlund.
The chatters
Mark Fletcher is a successful serial entrepreneur, software developer and investor, with over 20 years experience in software development and high tech. His creations include Bloglines and ONElist (which evolved into Yahoo Groups).
Marc Hedlund is an entrepreneur working on a personal finance startup, Wesabe, where he is Chief Product Officer (still pre-launch but there’s blog at Wheaties for Your Wallet.) Before Wesabe, Marc was an entrepreneur-in-residence at O’Reilly Media.
In part 1, they discuss startups, cookies, and why you should “shut up and ship.” (Moderated by Matt and Jason from 37signals.)
Choice quotes
Hedlund: “I’m learning to appreciate luck a lot more.”
Fletcher: “What’s been successful for me is just building stuff that I needed. I’m not a good salesman, so for anything I do to be successful, it has to be a good idea (the power of the idea wins).”
Hedlund: “I think a lot of what has worked for me is not what I decide to do but how I decide to do it. Who do I hire? What do I tell them is their job? Even, as DHH says, what tools do we use? A lot of that adds up to the daily ritual being right. When the ritual is right, it works. And that set of answers probably differs a lot from person to person.”
Fried: “It seems that a lot of folks get innovation and execution confused. Execution is the key, innovation is not. Innovation is nice, but execution is the secret weapon.”
Hedlund: “I tend to run into a lot of people — myself included — who latch onto cool ideas before big needs. I talk to a lot of engineers, so that’s their common problem.
Hedlund: “One guy I pitched, Bill Gurley, said it well: ‘There are a lot of walls around the size of the market.’ People needed to fit a bunch of constraints before they needed the product…Cool engineering idea, not necessarily a good business.”
Transcript
The full transcript is below.
| Linderman |
What are y’all working on these days? |
| Hedlund |
I’m working on Wesabe, a personal finance startup |
| Linderman |
Mark, what are you working on? |
| Fletcher |
I’ve been helping some friends with their startup, as well as easing myself back into tech. I’ve just started learning Ruby on Rails (quite nice, and I’m not sucking up…). |
| Fletcher |
At some point I’ll start something else, but I haven’t decided what yet. |
| Linderman |
What’s something new that you have been learning lately? |
| Hedlund |
What have I been learning: I’m learning to appreciate luck a lot more. I’m completely not religious or superstitious in the slightest, but some of the best things about wesabe have come out of lucky meetings |
| Fried |
Mark, I’m curious… everything you touch seems to turn to gold. Do you build things with the intention of selling them later, or does that just happen? |
| Fletcher |
Hah! |
| Linderman |
Mark "Midas" Fletcher |
| Fletcher |
I’ve been very lucky. What’s been successful for me is just building stuff that I needed. I’m not a good salesman, so for anything I do to be successful, it has to be a good idea (the power of the idea wins). |
| Fletcher |
Man, and my parents thought I had a big head before… |
| Fried |
|
| Hedlund |
jason, thanks. I’ll send you some cookies. :) |
| Fried |
It seems that a lot of folks get innovation and execution confused. Execution is the key, innovation is not. Innovation is nice, but execution is the secret weapon. |
| Fletcher |
Jason: totally agree. There are no real new ideas in the world. |
| Hedlund |
that one got a lot of private response. Some of them start big threads, others get me lots of emails and no comments. That post was the latter |
| Fried |
It’s not only just about new/old ideas… It’s about all the ideas. The innovation is the execution of the ideas. |
| Hedlund |
I think a lot of what has worked for me is not what I decide to do but how I decide to do it |
| Fried |
That’s where you can cut out huge swaths of success. |
| Hedlund |
who do I hire? what do I tell them is their job? |
| Hedlund |
even, as DHH says, what tools do we use? |
| Hedlund |
a lot of that adds up to the daily ritual being right |
| Hedlund |
when the ritual is right, it works. |
| Hedlund |
and that set of answers probably differs a lot from person to person |
| Hedlund |
heh! well, here’s hoping |
| Hedlund |
being wrong helps sometimes, too |
| Fletcher |
All startups make mistakes. You just try to minimize them. |
| Fried |
We try to minimize mistakes by making very small decisions. |
| Fried |
so you can’t go too wrong too much at any one time |
| Linderman |
What are the most common mistakes you see startups making? |
| Hedlund |
startups get wrong: I tend to run into a lot of people — myself included — who latch onto cool ideas before big needs |
| Fletcher |
Getting hung up on the wrong issues can be a problem (forest from the trees) |
| Hedlund |
I talk to a lot of engineers, so that’s their common problem |
| Hedlund |
marketers, in contrast, seem to fixate big needs with completely uncool/wrong solutions |
| Linderman |
Marc, got an example of a cool idea you latched on to that didn’t have a big need? |
| Hedlund |
sure, I started a company called Popular Power in 2000, with my friend Nelson Minar |
| Hedlund |
it was a commercialization of the SETI@Home idea |
| Hedlund |
very cool, very attractive to people who I wanted to work with |
| Hedlund |
but hard to sell |
| Hedlund |
One guy I pitched, Bill Gurley, said it well: "There are a lot of walls around the size of the market" |
| Hedlund |
people needed to fit a bunch of constraints before they needed the product |
| Hedlund |
those that met those constraints loved it |
| Linderman |
interesting |
| Hedlund |
but it was very hard to find the right people who fit exactly |
| Hedlund |
cool engineering idea, not necessarily a good business (at least, I didn’t make it work successfully) |
| Linderman |
Mark, I like this quote of yours: "perfection is the enemy of good enough" |
| Fletcher |
That’s why I tell web companies to just shut up and ship. It causes them to focus and then do iterative development afterwards. |
| Fletcher |
Or it just could be my reaction to once being in a startup that could never seem to ship. |
| Fletcher |
(and I’m not looking at you Marc :) ) |
| Hedlund |
Mark has a bet that he can launch his new idea before Wesabe launches :) |
| Hedlund |
I forget what the stakes are! |
| Hedlund |
What I win when he loses :) |
| Fletcher |
I don’t think we discussed that yet, Marc. Shaved head? |
| Hedlund |
Works for me! |
Read Part 2 or Part 3.
Andy Kant
on 06 Nov 06I don’t really have a particular comment about this article. I just wanted to say that I really enjoy these Fireside Chats as well as the design decision articles. Can’t wait for the next part.
will moore
on 06 Nov 06man, that was hard to read!
los squinter
on 07 Nov 06Yeah, they are hard on the eyes… oh, how I wish they were podcasts instead.
ns
on 07 Nov 06I have to agree that they’re a little long to read and get the main points out of quickly… maybe highlight good lines?
Eugene Loj
on 07 Nov 06There are some nice points made in the interview. My top two are on “luck” and “perfection is the enemy of good enough.”
On luck … I believe that anyone can create their own luck. It’s a matter of putting yourself in the right place at the right time. If you never move, you’ll have fewer chances to be lucky.
Being perfect … Some of the most successful sites are anything but perfect. Really successful people are usually the first to a particular niche market. Be the first to keep your users happy and they won’t have a reason to go somewhere else.
Nice interview.
Justin
on 07 Nov 06@ns—37 doesn’t even have to post this conversation and your asking them to highlight good points? I think it’s “good enough”
John
on 07 Nov 06One humble suggestion: please color-code the name blocks or add buddy icons (or some other visual cue). My brain is very lazy and as it reads Marc, Mark, and Matt over and over, it gives up trying to differente between all the Ma* names.
Loved the chat. Thanks for sharing.
ML
on 07 Nov 06Thanks for the comments on this chat’s legibility. Agree the “Marc,” “Mark”, “Matt” thing posed some problems. So went ahead and changed to last names, added shading to 37s comments, and pulled out some choice quotes and placed them in the intro for those who don’t want to read full transcript. Color coding for each individual during the thread seems like a noisy idea though so didn’t go with that. Hope this helps.
mattl
on 07 Nov 06ML: I like Campfire, but it would be nice if there were a way to have transcripts display names in a different way… I found myself using ‘mattl’ in any Campfire chats, rather than my name.. of course, if I were chatting to you, it would get even more confusing.
Alex
on 07 Nov 06JF: “minimize mistakes by making very small decisions” – and what about decisions to launch a new product?
Those aren’t small at all.
Apparently, you made at least 5 big decisions and still working on long-awaited 6-th one – CRM. It must take time.
David Smit
on 07 Nov 06I really enjoyed this fireside chat. I agree with los squinter, just create a podcast for us.
Jacob
on 08 Nov 06It would also be good if there was a more accessible version of the transcript as when I increase the font size on the page the overflowed text is hidden.
This discussion is closed.