The other day I went to sell some books at The Strand bookstore. They have a separate desk in the back for selling books. I brought in a bag and two clerks started sorting through them.
Then another guy lined up behind me. One of the clerks said to him, “You here to sell books?” He said, “Yes.” The clerk responded, “Wait in the line outside.” The guy went outside.
Thirty seconds later he was back. The clerk repeated, “Wait in the line outside.” The guy said meekly, “There is no line outside.”
The clerk sighed, looked at the other clerk, and sarcastically said, “There is no line outside.” The other clerk said gruffly, “If you can’t figure out the line, then you can’t sell books here.” The potential seller walked back outside meekly.
A minute later, a girl walked up with books. “Wait in the line outside,” said the clerk again. She walked outside. A few moments later, she was back. “What are you doing?” She said, “Selling books.” He said, “The line is outside.” She walked outside again. The clerks laughed. “Let’s see if the Mensa society out there can figure out how the line works!” And they laughed some more. As if both these customers were complete morons.
Lucky for me, I had arrived moments before these other two. Because I sure had no idea there was a place outside to wait in line. Or that “there’s a line outside” actually means “form a line outside.”
I think a lot of people who work in customer service make a similar mistake in laughing at customers or making fun of them behind their backs (PEBKAC comes to mind).
It can be a dangerous trap. Sure, any one customer might be stupid. But if multiple customers are repeatedly making the same mistake, maybe it’s not a mistake on their part. Maybe it’s a mistake on your part. If no one can figure out where to wait in line, maybe that’s a sign that you’re not doing a good enough job explaining it.
Des
on 27 Aug 08Why are they starting a line outside the store, is there a “one seller in the store at any given time” type rule? Is it to stop shoplifting?
Either way, What a pair pricks.
Christophe Maximin
on 27 Aug 08Sigh… I can’t believe it… I guess they are making a fair amount of money every month, otherwise they wouldn’t find funny to see customers walk away…
Andy Rutledge
on 27 Aug 08I think you forgot to include the last line of your post: “I will never again sell books at The Strand.”
Right?
Jay
on 27 Aug 08I get this all the time in NYC. Most sales clerks are just plain rude. It’s like I’m inconveniencing them by buying something…get a clue people, it’s your job to sell it to me!
j
on 27 Aug 08ok, so you just publicly called them out for being stupid. sound familiar? somebody there might see this post, and those clerks are now fired. it’s not likely, but it’s definitely possible.
Anonymous Coward
on 27 Aug 08and the Lifetime Achievement Award for Irony goes to …
Jim
on 27 Aug 08Totally agree.
And yet, there’s this post from SvN which calls out a bunch of customers for not getting how things are done.
Matt W
on 27 Aug 08Matt—I hate to be the one to have to point this out, but are you forgetting this entry you wrote?
http://tinyurl.com/yhrmrm
Pot calling the kettle black ring any bells? Despite the silly semantic arguments you all tried to use to defend yourselves when you wrote that past, you’ve done almost exactly what you’re complaining about here.
ctran
on 27 Aug 08this reminds me of how people are treated by government officials in Vietnam… you always feel belittled and afraid…
ML
on 27 Aug 08And yet, there’s this post from SvN which calls out a bunch of customers for not getting how things are done.
I don’t really think the two situations are analogous. That post wasn’t calling out customers for not getting it. It was about how using extreme language overshoots the problem and can distract from thoughtful conversations.
The situations are also different because we routinely make changes to both our products and our help sections based on the queries we receive from customers. If a large group of people keep asking the same question, we do our best to examine the issue closely and alleviate the problem if we can.
Steven
on 27 Aug 08I worked as a Customer Service Manager for a large car company years ago. (Yeah I know shitty job.)
The source of many customer satisfaction problems was service advisers diagnosing the customer’s problem before the technicians (the trained experts) ever did.
I recently went to a dealership for work on my truck, and the adviser was arguing with me that my concern was normal. I had to insist that she have a mechanic look at my truck. The tech ended confirming my problem, and fixing it. But I was pissed she fought me to work on my truck, she is paid to write up repairs!
In my experience as a CSM:
Big cultural problems effect customer service when the experts, believe that all customers should know as much as they do. Then they complain to the service reps when they are dealing with the opposite.
Service reps begin to ignore customers issues to avoid criticism from the experts about the customer issues they have to deal with.
Then one day the company is in trouble because the customers move to a business that isn’t insulting them.
andrew
on 27 Aug 08Nearly as rude and annoying as laughing at your customers is the feigned indifference of employees whose primary responsibility is to help customers. How many times have you “interacted” with someone taking your food order and they never say a word?
The other day I had to take a malfunctioning soap dispenser to the shop where we had purchased it less than 3 years ago. This place has a showroom and a parts and service area, and every time I’ve been in there, it seems the guys behind the parts counter are being paid by the wisecrack. I explain to a guy what wasn’t working and why—meanwhile ignoring the peanut gallery smartass next to him making comments—as he tried his hardest not to make eye contact with me. Then he dismissively says, “You don’t use this very much, do you?”
"We use it every day." (This is a hand soap dispenser. In a kitchen. What do you think?)“Oh.” Moseys into the back for awhile, returns with a replacement, shuffles over to display sink to test replacement, dismissively hands it to me. “Here you go.” Walks away from me to go talk to another employee.
I ask him, “Are we all set here?”
“Yep.”
Wow. Sorry to have wasted your time.
Some Dude
on 27 Aug 08“we do our best to take responsibility and alleviate the problem as opposed to blaming or mocking the customer.”
So that SVN post doesn’t count as “mocking the customer”?, cause from where I’m sitting its a big pile of snarky, condensing crap.
D. Lambert
on 27 Aug 08Maybe they’re not doing a good job??
Maybe???
Yes, those two clerks should get at least reprimanded (although firing wouldn’t be out of the question). When you’re working in a service capacity, your job is to serve. Period.
Personally, I think this sort of attitude has become more common over the years, and it’s not a welcome change.
And yes, you’re right – this happens pretty often in software, and yes, there’s very frequently a lesson in usability that we can learn when this sort of thing happens to us. When you see a pattern of users making the same mistakes, maybe – just maybe, they’re not all idiots.
Jim
on 27 Aug 08I don’t get it.
On 37Signals Live yesterday, Jason Fried stated that when talking about how 37Signals works, they make the grand statement. “Letterhead - don’t do it,” “Adwords - not worth it,” etc. etc. And the addendum was “well, we’re saying what works for us, but it waters down our message to add all those caveats, so we take a strong position to get the conversation started.” Of course I paraphrasing, but that’s the gist of what was said.
Then, in the response above, the two posts that were contrasted by a number of readers were described asSo the strong statement is great when being talked at by 37Signals, but not when talking to 37Signals.
As an avid reader of your blog and user of your products, this is, to me, a mixed message.
Sam
on 27 Aug 08I totally agree with all the comments, but I think consumers also need to stand up for themselves. Call out the clerks who are being rude, ask to speak to their manager, explain the situation, demand a resolution or walk out. You can totally do this without being rude or obnoxious.
The same is true for software (and I agree… the earlier SvN post is simply saying, “Hey, give feedback without being extreme”). The problem is, so many people are still learning that if something is difficult to use, it’s the fault of the software makers, and not themselves. Hence why every usability test has to start with, “We’re testing the software, not you.”
D. Lambert
on 27 Aug 08Sam, great point. I’ve seen entire communities of users just sit and put up with lousy usability when they should have been rounding up torches and pitchforks and heading off to find the CIO.
a line?
on 27 Aug 08i dont understand where the line really was….
Sal
on 27 Aug 08I believe that most cases of poor customer service are due to the fact that the employees hate their job and their managers do nothing to inspire them.
When you do business with an organization that does it right, your interactions with the service people is completely different and you can tell that they love their jobs and will go the extra mile to please the customer.
Treat your employees well and they will in turn provide excellent customer service.
Josh. N
on 27 Aug 08Is anyone reading this stuff? There is no mixed message between this post and this previous one.
The old post is talking about extreme language for minor irritations. Politicians use this trick all the time to get attention. I’m surprised we aren’t all desensitized to it by now.
Anyway, the new post is simply about being rude to customers. It’s amazing it happens. I guess people are used to being treated that way. That might be why no one blinks an eye at signing a 2 year contract for something as basic as a mobile phone. We all know how great phone companies are with customer service!
Anonymous Coward
on 27 Aug 08The guys at Strand are extra-special assholes. Totally disrespectful to the people that come in.
Josh. N
on 27 Aug 08Is anyone reading this stuff? There is no mixed message between this post and the previous one mentioned.
The old post is talking about extreme language for minor irritations. Politicians use this trick all the time to get attention. I’m surprised we aren’t all desensitized to it by now.
Anyway, the new post is simply about being rude to customers. It’s amazing it happens. I guess people are used to being treated that way. That might be why no one blinks an eye at signing a 2 year contract for something as basic as a mobile phone. We all know how great phone companies are with customer service!
(Sorry about the first comment. The link in it broke something.)
Anonymous Coward
on 27 Aug 08Wow. You put “Anonymous Coward” as the username of people who chose to contribute to your site anonymously? This post is ironic. I will not be visiting your blog again.
Jim
on 27 Aug 08The rude part of the old post was the act of directly quoting support emails to a public blog. The exact same point of “extreme language for minor irritations” could have been made without the direct quotations. If I were the author of this
.. and saw it on SvN, I would be offended that a private conversation had been made public. And yes, I know when you write a letter to someone, they own it and can do what they want with it and we should all endeavor to be as polite as possible. However, directly quoting those emails is calling out a specific group of your customers. Shouldn’t be done, just like you shouldn’t tell them to line up outside or talk trash about them in front of other customers.
Matt
on 27 Aug 08Strand has notoriously rude staff. So much so that many seem to interpret this as a feature, rather than a flaw.
Gustavo Beathyate
on 27 Aug 08I seem to recall a keynote slide with the words “Fuck You” in it…
Jim
on 27 Aug 08The keynote slide is an interesting point .. those people to whom DHH was referring are users of Rails. They are not customers. If they want to make demands and David says “fuck you,” well, you get what you pay for. Fork the code and make your own version.
These posts are about how to treat customers, paying or potential. The standard is way higher. Not to say that a company can’t write “thanks but no thanks,” a la Southwest, and not to say that the customer is always right. It’s how you go about telling the customer that they are not always right.
gerard
on 27 Aug 08Ten quid says you shops at that book store again.
Eric
on 27 Aug 08I would fire or move both of them. Its not about inspiring employees and them liking their job, its about having the right people in the right place. Customer service is not for everyone and when you put smartasses as your customer interface, you’re just asking for pissed off customers. If you don’t like working with customers, then don’t get a CS job. Same goes for software. If you don’t like interfacing with customers, hire a real CS person or don’t sell software.
ML
on 27 Aug 08Yeah, I think a lot of this is about tone and context. If you’re using harsh language to make a point, that’s one thing. If you’re just mocking customers for no good reason, that’s another thing.
Anonymous Coward
on 27 Aug 08These are service employees, and they’ll get paid whether they have 0, 100, or 100000 customers in a day – ie. they have no stake in seeing the company succeed.
The Strand is a New York institution – it’s not going to fold just because a couple of bad employees. Similar situation with service employees at big box stores, fast food employees, etc.
Without a real stake in the company’s success, and knowing their jobs are secure nonetheless, they have little incentive to be helpful other than the good in their hearts. Working at such a thankless and tedious job, don’t be surprised when that good is hard to find.
Anonymous Coward
on 27 Aug 08“Wow. You put “Anonymous Coward” as the username of people who chose to contribute to your site anonymously? This post is ironic. I will not be visiting your blog again.”
Wow. Someone has never been to Slashdot apparently. And don’t! You won’t go back there either…
Rich Blunt
on 27 Aug 08I don’t understand where the fear of pissing off a customer went.
And my pet peeve is the people at a pharmacy although I have noticed that it isn’t of epidemic proportions anymore.
Nick Husher
on 27 Aug 08“Community” is a bit of a strong word when used to describe Slashdot, don’t you think? Still, the “Anonymous Coward” appelation is designed, in part, to get people to use real names. At least that’s the way I’ve always viewed it. This post by Oliver Reichtenstein is a good rundown on why anonymity is bad for conversations.
Nick
David Andersen
on 27 Aug 08“I believe that most cases of poor customer service are due to the fact that the employees hate their job and their managers do nothing to inspire them.”
That’s hardly an excuse for bad behavior.
“Wow. You put “Anonymous Coward” as the username of people who chose to contribute to your site anonymously?”
A valid point in light of this post. While not exactly the same thing, it’s certainly violating the spirit, especially as someone may have a perfectly valid reason for commenting anonymously. Is the comment in any way diminished because the writer didn’t use a pseudonym?
David Andersen
on 27 Aug 08@Nick – so you think everyone is using their real name?
David Andersen
on 27 Aug 08Another sign of the times are businesses with tip jars for basic, run of the mill service. You expect a tip for taking my order and completing my transaction?
GeeIWonder
on 27 Aug 08Yeah, I think a lot of this is about tone and context. If you’re using harsh language to make a point, that’s one thing. If you’re just mocking customers for no good reason, that’s another thing.
I think you’re right about this, but far better than pretending or representing you respect the customer is actual respect for the customer.
I think promoting a generalist culture and is a great first step within an organization. It’s often the people with the abundance of knowledge in one niche (sometimes even one as small as the operations of their own shop) who are the most self-satisfied and smug—do we really expect the Strand guys/gals to be up for a Mensa award soon?
As Twain put it—travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow mindedness. Maybe The Strand should make reading some of those books occasionally a job requirement.
Robert Einspruch
on 27 Aug 08Nothing beats contempt for your customers. Unfortunately I experience it quite a bit at movie rental stores and book stores (and in the old days, music stores). If your or someone you know is unhappy with the choices you made that landed you in a service job, please do not take it out on your customers!
Check out Jason Sudeikis’ character in “The Line” for the ultimate “I hate my customers” manager:
http://www.thedailytube.com/video/12028/the-line-featuring-snls-bill-hader-and-jason-sudeikis
August
on 27 Aug 08“I don’t understand where the fear of pissing off a customer went.”
I worked on the customer service “front lines” for years, and I can tell you exactly where it went. It went in the bin when the vast majority of customers began customer service agents like stress-relief toys before we even have a chance to open our mouths. I’ve had customers scream at me, threaten violence, insult me, throw trash at me, and so on, all before I even had a chance to say “hello, how can I help you?” Most, and I do mean most, are simply rude, demanding, and dismissive. I have never in my entire life undergone a more demeaning or dehumanizing experience than working front-line customer service. And the size of the business doesn’t matter, as far as customer behaviour is concerned. The only real difference was this: when I worked for a small, locally owned business, I was allowed to stick up for myself; when I worked for a multinational, I would have been fired for not allowing myself to be abused.
Minimum wage is frankly not enough to put up with hundreds of people daily displaying the sense of entitlement the combination of pop culture and a middle-class income has bred into them. The ridiculous thing, is that at the business where I received the most abuse from customers was when I worked at a popular and much-loved locally owned business that provided a necessary service to the community (I’d rather not say what it was), where the staff was among the kindest and most attentive I have ever seen. It seemed very much like customers viewed this as an invitation to abuse us.
I now live in a major urban centre, and not a single shopping excursion, be it for books or groceries, passes without my witnessing a customer abusing customer service staff for no real reason.
Fear of pissing off the customer went in the trash thirty seconds after the majority of consumers decided that’s where front-line employees should toss their dignity.
GeeIWonder
on 27 Aug 08Fear of pissing off the customer went in the trash thirty seconds after the majority of consumers decided that’s where front-line employees should toss their dignity.
Fear is a terrible motivator. But, if fear HAS to be the motivator, it most likely will come from the top. Fear of pissing the customer is really a management priority in such scenarios.
The guys on the ‘front lines’ are indeed quite likely to put up rationalizations and other defense mechanisms so they can still stay sane (nobody THINKS they’re doing a terrible job). Fear of losing your job is there motivator—as highlighted in your own comment.
Bud Parr
on 27 Aug 08I gave up on Strand a long time ago for the very type of behavior you mention. They do seem to think their attitude is cute, probably because its a tourist spot and they, uniquely among indie booksellers, do tons of business without.
Fortunately there are many many used bookstores in NYC to sell your books to (just ask me if you can’t find them) and at least several within walking distance of the Strand. OR you can donate books to Housing Works (also within walking distance from the Strand) so that your old books go to a good cause.
Tim
on 27 Aug 08@ August
If you can stand the heat, get another job. If you think the pay is not enough, then why do you think all the jobs are being outsourced?
I worked as a telemarketer before and after my first month on the job I just got used to it.
I would be unconditionally nice and that usually threw people off.
Tim
on 27 Aug 08Oh, and let me add that if you go to Korea the customer service is on another level.
I’ve seen belligerent customers yell and berate the staff and yet they are always courteous and nice.
The staff there takes crazy amounts of abuse and yet they are able to remain pleasant.
Now that’s good training and work ethic. Something that we have lost in the recent decade.
August
on 27 Aug 08I stopped working customer service years ago, because I no longer had to. But “get another job” isn’t really an option in a rural environment (which is where I was living at the time). A lot of customer service people do it because they don’t have a choice (many now have two or three such jobs). I’ve never done ‘indirect’ customer service, like telemarketing. In all instances I was in a face to face setting, and frankly you could triple my current salary and I wouldn’t go back to it. Uncalled for rudeness (such as mentioned in this post) is not something I would ever have done. But the customers themselves never gave me any reason to treat them well. In the case of my job at the small business, I did the best job I could because my employer treated me well (better than any other employer in any other industry ever has, actually), and in the case of the multinational I did it because I didn’t have a choice and needed to put food on the table. But there is no reason, ever, to treat anyone as poorly as people treat customer service reps, and I honestly can’t fault the industry as a whole for falling apart. You may be surprised how much more motivated you are to do your best after being treated with some simple respect.
GeeWonder: Nobody THINKS they’re that kind of customer either, but there seem to be a lot of them out there.
GeeIWonder
on 27 Aug 08But there is no reason, ever, to treat anyone as poorly as people treat customer service reps
Nonsense. In some (many) organizations the service reps are there as a de facto customer filter. They are essentially paid for exactly that reason, and the rest of the company is built around that.
But the customers themselves never gave me any reason to treat them well.
See there it is. Where do you get such a sense of entitlement? Customers and service personnel are not peers. One is trading money for either a product (in which case no service personel is needed), a service (in which case the service is the only product) or a combination of both. The massage therapist doesn’t get to say “Ok, you do me now” if (s)he’s having a bad day too.
If your employer puts you in a position to be abused constantly by unhappy customers and you feel you’re doing a good job, that’s the fault of your employer. Get a new one. If you’re as good as you think, it won’t be hard.
I’m all for respect of yourself and of others. I’ve had those jobs, I’ve earned my stripes. But this culture of entitlement that seems to be so pervasive now absolutely baffles me.
alps
on 27 Aug 08Matt, by not just taking your book back immediately, and saying something like, “I can’t see how I can do business with a store that employs people like this,” I think you are the bigger jerk.
Anonymous Coward
on 27 Aug 08coward
Tim Jahn
on 27 Aug 08I think this is definitely a situation of a company having the wrong people in the wrong places. They may need to simply just get off the bus.
Gary R Boodhoo
on 27 Aug 08those guys seem destined for middle management.
Tom G
on 27 Aug 08Hmm… Bite the hand that feeds me… No, I don’t think I’ll base my vendor relations and customer service policy on that.
Makes me realize that “tool” is what you get when you spell “loot” backwards.
Anonymous Blowhard
on 27 Aug 08@Bud Parr has it right – just vote with your feet take your business elsewhere.
Tomas Jogin
on 28 Aug 08Something tells me that those dicks would have behaved differently if the book store was their own, and loss of customers meant less money in their own pockets.
Anomynous Croward
on 30 Aug 08@AC Your point about the name Anonymous Coward as a name for anonymous posters is decontextualized. Anonymous Coward is a long standing name for anonymous posting, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_Coward. Perhaps you’re new to the interwebs, or you’re just looking to prove your worth and seek validation by pointing out someone else’s flaws, yet afraid of the negative reaction so you’re hiding yourself behind anonymity. I know that’s what I’m doing right now, difference is I’m aware of my actions.
This thread illustrates a great deal about how the service industry is perceived and how their main responsibility is to know their place in the social hierarchy.
@Thomas Jogin et al Something tells me if they were being paid a fair wage to care they would behave differently.
Alex Andronov
on 30 Aug 08This is very much like the Norman’s classic “Design of everyday things”. If a customer makes a mistake then your tendency is to blame them. More than one customer makes a mistake it’s time to blame yourself.
This discussion is closed.