Maverick Mark says “Why I Don’t Wear a Suit and Can’t Figure Out Why Anyone Does.”
To me this is the key point:
Now I understand some people think wearing a suit provides them with a certain level of stature. It gives them confidence. It helps them feel good about themselves. Well let me be the first to tell you that if you feel like you need a suit to gain that confidence, you got problems. The minute you open your mouth, all those people who might think you have a great suit, forget about the suit and have to deal with the person wearing it.
I’ve actually found that suits can have a negative effect on my perception of some business people—especially salespeople. When you sound sharp you sound sharp no matter what you wear, but when you don’t know what you’re talking about you sound worse with a suit on. It has something to do with expectations. The suit magnifies missed expectations. It’s like wearing a first place medal around your neck before the race and then finishing 7th.
That being said, I don’t have any problems with suits themselves. If you like a suit, wear a suit. I believe you should wear what’s comfortable. Comfort is a huge part of productivity. If you’re comfortable in a suit, wear it proud. If you’re more of a t-shirt and jeans person, go for it.
Of course where you work and what the social/business/industry norms are play a big part in all of this. It’s easy for Mark Cuban to decide he’s not wearing a suit, but I think Mark’s “Someone had once told me that you wear to work what your customers wear to work” point is a good one.
So, what’s your take?
Jamie Tibbetts
on 17 Jan 07I agree completely with Cuban. I too refuse to wear suits unless I’m going to a wedding or a funeral. I actively go out of my way to not put myself into positions where clothes matter. If I have to dress up to feel like I’m acceptable to someone else, I avoid that situation like the plague. I don’t go to restaurants that require me to dress up. I don’t take on clients if I feel like I’d have to dress up when I visit them. Fancy clothes are just a pretentious facade to me. Having said that, I love ties. Go figure. :)
JF
on 17 Jan 07If I have to dress up to feel like I’m acceptible to someone else, I avoid that situation like the plague. I don’t go to restaurants that require me to dress up. I don’t take on clients if I feel like I’d have to dress up when I visit them.
This has pretty much been my motive too. In many ways my life is about avoiding hassles. The more hassles I can avoid the happier I am.
Cheshire
on 17 Jan 07I tend to be in the same camp. I’m most comfortable in sweats and a t-shirt, and that’s pretty much what I wear all the time. I feel like I do my best work when I’m comfortable, and I also like to feel that I don’t have to worry about getting my clothes dirty when I work, since I have a design job that requires physical work sometimes.
I agree that the work should matter, not the wardrobe. But I’m also lucky in that I can get away with some things other people can’t, partially because I’m a designer for a nonprofit and people expect me to be at least a little weird, and partially because I work in Berkeley, where merely being weird is probably a little conservative.
I do like to dress up sometimes just for fun (and also the shock value). My problem is, when it comes to nice clothes, I have expensive tastes that a nonprofit salary doesn’t quite cover. Why dress up in a cheap suit?
My boss used to tell me, “Dress for the job you want, not the job you have.” Good thing I have the job I want…
Josh
on 17 Jan 07I don’t often wear suits, but when I do, I do it for one reason: because I look good in them.
Perhaps suits just don’t become Mr. Cuban?
I completely agree with you about comfort, though, Jason. Wear whatever is most comfortable. If it’s jeans, cool, it’s if a suit, cool. People who look comfortable in their clothes also tend to look more comfortable with their surroundings and whatever they’re doing, which by itself would probably make you feel more confident. (I’m one of those people, like Mike Arrington, who thought Anne Hatheway looked better at the beginning of The Devil Wears Prada … it’s all about comfort.)
Narendra
on 17 Jan 07I’m not sure who told me this but it was an older gentleman and the gist of it is that the suit and appropriate attire has been historically a way of showing respect for your co-workers and the people you with whom you engage in business.
As someone who wore a jacket and tie in high school and vowed never to do it in the “real world” I am drawn toward the anti-suit crowd. But what if, in the grander scheme of things, that mentality is actually just a myopic, juvenile, egocentric way of approaching life?
Kelly Smith
on 17 Jan 07The most important part to keep in mind is geography. It’s all about your locale baby! I’m American but lived many years in London and also elsewhere in Europe. If you work in central London in a professional job and don’t wear a suit your a total goon. If your a web developer in central USA then a suit doesn’t make much sense.
If you sell Bentley’s in Hyde Park you’re wearing a suit and its appropriate culture to do so. If your selling hard drives from the back of a van in Spokane then you look like a schmuck.
It’s all about context and the culture of your job and its location.
Do you really want to see Donald Trump in ripped jeans or sweats? No! Just like I really don’t want to see Mark Cuban trying to wear a tie.
Anyway, Mark Cuban is a bit of a tool.
Let me rephrase:
“The minute you open your mouth, all those people who might think you have a great T-SHIRT, forget about the T-SHIRT and have to deal with the person wearing it.”
Jason
on 17 Jan 07I don’t deal with customers much at my job, so I get to dress very casually most of the time. I don’t think I’d last long at a job that required uncomfortable clothes every day.
That said, I like the idea of wearing a suit to special occasions which call for something a little more formal. I established a rule early on with myself that I wouldn’t wear a suit in order to hide anything – being out of shape, poor, inexperienced, socially awkward – my goal is to look good first, be confident first, and then the suit just completes the picture. In that context, dressing up is fun.
Ryan Allen
on 17 Jan 07Maverick Mark lost me with his arrogant assertion that people who wear suits to feel good have problems.
Phil
on 17 Jan 07It’s all about first impressions. Some people see a suit and think: “poindexter sales guy… i’m don’t care what this tool thinks”, while others if they saw you show up in a t-shirt would think: “what’s this sloppy kid have to say? He sure has a lot to learn”.
A suit is all about the first impression, which is the most important one. Keep in mind that only 50 years ago, almost every single male wore a suit every day. There are still people around who remember those times, and expect you to wear the business uniform. It’s the same reason you get your hair cut nice and wash your car. Appearances mean a lot to a lot of people.
Ian
on 17 Jan 07I had an interesting experience last night that echoes these sentiments somewhat. I attended a large (600 people or so) business dinner where Lance Armstrong was speaking. Now, I don’t own a suit and on the way to the venue I felt a tinge of concern that I would feel a little out-of-place.
I did feel a little out-of-place, but I also was glad that I felt out of place. I don’t like to judge people based on appearance, but lets just say that there were plenty of rude people that seemed even ruder because of their bad suits.
russ
on 17 Jan 07Some of the above comments have talked about the context or locale. I think some of that can translate into expectations, what your clients expect and respect.
While reading the post I thought: I hate it when a guy driving a BMW M5 makes the slightest mistake, I think of him as an idiot right away. I seem to give a little more slack to those driving an economical car.
Tony
on 17 Jan 07“Someone had once told me that you wear to work what your customers wear to work”
I work in a hospital. I’m not wearing pyjamas to work.
Danny Cohen
on 17 Jan 07for me, horizontal corduroys are the only way to go, with a t-shirt.
Eric
on 17 Jan 07Normally I’m a jeans and t-shirt kind of guy, but on occasion a suit is just plain fun. Nothing quite like getting dressed up and going out and sometimes a suit is just fun for that.
dave
on 17 Jan 07There is another reason to wear a suit, a reason that many in the IT fields don’t ‘get’. Women find suits sexy. And shoes. Your brand named sneakers are not going to impress anyone, and neither is your slogan bearing T-shirt. But a nice suit – not polyester nor Armani – just a nice suit and a pair of clean leather shoes can create impressions far beyond what you expect. Just ask your female co-workers.
Dr. Pete
on 17 Jan 07Comfort is a huge part of productivity.
It’s also a huge part of confidence, at least for me. I know people who, right or wrong, are used to wearing a suit to work and would feel naked without it. They perform best in a suit, and they stick with it. Myself, I’ve always been more of a business casual guy.
I will say, though, that outside of the client side (I’d never show up at a client’s site in sweats, for example) there is something to feeling like you’re at your best. Sometimes, even working from home, I just feel more productive if I shower, shave, and throw on some khakis.
Nathan Smith
on 17 Jan 07I think it’s about what you like and what you’re comfortable wearing. I enjoy wearing a shirt and tie—I don’t begrudge my coworkers their jeans and polos, and expect the same in return.
Personally, I think that a CEO trying to be “hip” in khakis and a polo looks far sillier than a salesperson trying to be professional by dressing well. (More power to ‘em if they’re genuinely at home in their Gap-inspired “business casual” garb)
If people are comfortable, content, and productive, then what they’re wearing shouldn’t matter.
Chris D
on 17 Jan 07I too thought that Cuban was arrogant.
Suits don’t have to be uncomfortable. In fact, when you buy a nice one, the fabric might me more comfortable than your oldest pair of jeans.
Some people wear them to feel good about themselves, some other people will buy Audi cars for that.
It does not mean that some will buy an Audi just for the great handling the car has, its quattro traction etc.
And that’s why I avoid those shallow judgments.
Oh, and I wear suits only on special occasions, when I feel that it is expected, out of respect. I’m too cheap to pay for dry cleaning em too often. And I drive a VW because for the same engine as the A4 with a 1.8T, I got 10 more HPs for less.
Waylon
on 17 Jan 07A lot of it comes down to this: the majority of suits sold are utterly overpriced garbage. That said, there are a variety of well made suits that are comfortable, but do come with a matching price tag. Suits don’t HAVE to be uncomfortable. Dressing well is open to one’s personal interpretation, but what you wear DOES have an effect on the way you are perceived.
brad
on 18 Jan 07I own a suit. I wear it for job interviews, weddings, funerals, and conferences when I’m working for my clients (most of whom are pretty formal, and most people at these conferences wear suits).
But when you step back and look at it objectively, a suit is a kind of ridiculous thing. Actually it’s not so much the suit as the tie. What is it with this piece of fabric that goes around your neck and drops down your chest? Isn’t that kind of strange? It’s one of those customs that makes sense only because we’re used to seeing it….if you think about it objectively it’s silly. Almost as silly as women shaving their legs, which has always struck me as bizarre and creepy in a way: it basically sends a message that grown women are supposed to look like pre-pubescent virgins who are too young to have hair on their legs yet. And what does that say about our culture and our values? Was this a practice forced on women by men who had fantasies of child molestation? Ick.
Tom
on 18 Jan 07I think there’s a big difference between a suit being uncomfortable and being uncomfortable in a suit. Cuban is clearly the latter. The former is not true; if it’s uncomfortable, you’re wearing one that doesn’t fit.
I never really have course to wear one day to day, but I enjoy the chance to, mainly because I’m entirely comfortable in them and my suits fit me well.
That said, it should be noted that: I always have my sleeves rolled up to the elbows under them, and I often wear a suit with an open necked shirt.
There’s one other practicality worth pointing out: pockets. A jacket (of any form, sports, suit, blazer, whatever) is basically pockets with sleeves – outer pockets, inner pockets, you’re swathed in carry-space. I never run out of comfortable carry space in a jacket – in trousers and tshirt, I sometimes end up with bulging pockets.
In a nutshell, then: what JF said. The ‘wear what your customers wear to work’ is fairly reasonable – I think you can get away with one notch smarter/more casual, but turning up in shorts to a trading firm is a bad idea. Similarly, turning up in Armani to a tiny organic grocery store. Meet in the middle.
Mike
on 18 Jan 07I agree with Waylon. I have this nice $400 overcoat that I bought to wear to my company Christmas party. Guess what. It’s amazingly warm an comfortable. I now wear it even if I’ve got a t-shirt and jeans underneath.
Well-fitted suits made of quality materials can be quite comfortable. Further, they are aesthetically pleasing, and aesthetics have a lot to do with wearing nice clothes. Some people take a snapshot and call it a photograph. Photographers spend an inordinate amount of time an deffort so as to not take a snapshot. This does not mean photographers have ego problems or that they are sheep. Some people care about the aesthetics involved in how they look.
Personally, I appreciate looking at a sharply dressed person. They just look nice. The mistake is when you read into it too much, or attribute their look to a flaw in their personality. I don’t generally believe that people who wear suits have small penises, any more than I believe expensive car owners do.
As far as whether you should wear one or not, you should wear whatever is socially acceptable for wherever you’re going. If you believe that what you are wearing is not important to you, then there’s no point in trying to be different. That just calls attention to what you didn’t want to talk about in the first place.
Shawn Oster
on 18 Jan 07For me as a software developer wearing a suit doesn’t make much sense nor is it quite as comfortable as jeans and a t-shirt after coding for 16 hours straight. I’ll also admit to having a chip on my shoulder about being expected to fit into a certain mold by having to wear a suit. By the same token I won’t cover up full sleeve tattoos just to fit in.
On the other hand my wife finds suits very sexy and I definitly think a ska or swing band in matching suits is sharp. Suits are great when you don’t have to wear them and can have fun with them. The only time I have a problem with suits on others is when they act superior because they are wearing them.
I do agree in part with dave that women find suits sexy but a major component of that is actually style + grooming. A suit is just instant style and grooming because everything matches. Even in the “alternative” crowd the guy that has taken some time to think about his wardrobe tends to do much better with the ladies. Oh, and about the shoes… that is spot on. Even when I wear jeans I’m wearing a nice shoe or boot. Sneakers are for sports :)
A funny story about context though, I knew an older gentleman that was a smart dressing big brain research biologist and one day he was dressed like he was style deficient and color-blind. When I asked him why it looked like a sale bin from the 80’s fell on him he replied that he had a huge budget meeting that day and unless he looked the part of a nerdy scientest he wouldn’t get all of his budget approved.
mimo
on 18 Jan 07No I dont think that your cothes should just be comfortable. If you wear something you are sending signals. And you should know which signals are you sending to whom. Some people are not aware of this. Especially men. It is also about the place you are going to. You are the director of your life. Try to look good in it.
@ Brad: And why do men shave their beard? Becasue they wanna look like a woman?
Peter Cooper
on 18 Jan 07Kelly Smith, above, totally knocked the nail on the head. I’m generally anti-suit, but in the last several months my views have been changing and I have now bought one and the plethora of shirts and ties to go with it.
In Europe the whole Steve Jobs casual thing just doesn’t fly, no matter how trendy and anti-establishment you think you are. Image is a pretty big deal in some places, and not so important in others. In the United Kingdom, suits are now a must.. and I’ve woken up and smelled the coffee.
mimo
on 18 Jan 07I just read Kelly Smiths post. Absolutely right.
Will
on 18 Jan 07I get my hair cut nice because when it gets too long and I can feel it on my ears it bugs the HELL out of me. I don’t get it cut so that I look nice for other people.
Same with my car. I was it a lot. Not so people walk by my car and think it looks cool, but because I don’t like my things to be messy.
To assume people keep things tidy for the sake of appearances is a pretty big assumption.
Will
on 18 Jan 07Doh!
“I WASH it a lot.”
Will
on 18 Jan 07No I dont think so Will. If you would live somewhere else (lets say egypt) people are used to messy cars. So you will find a lot more of them. Here in germany not. It depends on the surrounding and the influences you got. Today i was in a class which is mixed. Three “diffrent” cultures. Germany, Belgium und Netherlands. I asked the germans if there are some diffrences between the people in the way they word. They said: Yes. The germans are much more structured. In there writing and in their contepts. I think this appeals to many other parts of life.
mimo
on 18 Jan 07Sorry Will. I posted the last one.
undees
on 18 Jan 07Suits require a little more upfront planning when you bike to work/events. You either crumple ‘em up under a rain suit, or crumple ‘em up into a garment bag over your shoulder.
Personally, I prefer the vintage-sports-jacket + nice jeans “slacker formal” look. It travels better by bike, while performing just enough of a nod toward presentability.
Situation matters, though. A decent, well-fitting suit works pretty well at weddings and job interviews.
undees
on 18 Jan 07Suits require a little more upfront planning when you bike to work/events. You either crumple ‘em up under a rain suit, or crumple ‘em up into a garment bag over your shoulder.
Personally, I prefer the vintage-sports-jacket + nice jeans “slacker formal” look. It travels better by bike, while performing just enough of a nod toward presentability.
Situation matters, though. A decent, well-fitting suit works pretty well at weddings and job interviews.
Glenn Davies
on 18 Jan 07Mark Cuban aside, for those who have never felt comfortable in a suit or see the need to ever wear one, try this on for size.
It’s about dressing up. It feels good to dress up from time to time. I mean going to a very good restaurant for a special occasion or to the symphony or even to a special business event.
I work everyday in jeans and very casual clothing. I own several suits since I have been a business executive and still speak in circles where it fits. My son, a techie all the way, wears what you would expect. He is 25 and 2 years ago went to my tailor and paid $800.00 for a great suit. Why? He had a wedding to attend. Since then, he has had a few other opportunities to wear his suit just because he wanted to dress up.
I will agree with this. Anyone who thinks that “the suit makes the man,” has bought the wrong line.
Geoff
on 18 Jan 07Narendra heard write when she wrote:
“I’m not sure who told me this but it was an older gentleman and the gist of it is that the suit and appropriate attire has been historically a way of showing respect for your co-workers and the people you with whom you engage in business.”
All these comments imply that people wear suits to overcome insecurities.
Geoff
on 18 Jan 07...People ought to wear suits (or whatever attire is “appropriate”) primarily to show respect for the folks with whom they are spending time. It is not about being better than other people—it’s about being respectful to other people.
Think of it this way: Why do you wear a suit to a wedding? A funeral? To church? Why do you dress nice for Thanksgiving dinner at Grandmom’s? Not to give yourself a certain level of stature. Not to give yourself confidence. Not to feel good about yourself.
It’s to show respect. Not to be respected.
James Jeffers
on 18 Jan 07I love wearing suits! I think suits are awesome.. but I NEVER wear them :) It’s too much work.. I prefer to slap on jeans and a T-Shirt.. and the only times I’ve ever worn a suit to work was because we were heading out to a formal banquet or some other event for fun. I agree with Cuban.. what does the suit matter? It just sets the tone for a level of seriousness and I’m more of a humorous easy going person so to wear a suit to work everyday would definitely stifle the environment and make me feel out of place. I think most of us are at 100% when we are feeling our most comfortable as well as those around us. The suit creates a sense of seriousness and brings a higher set of subconscious expectations that just ultimately distract us from what it is we are really trying to work or focus on.
Sam
on 18 Jan 07Looking nice for either your customers or your colleagues or your family or whatever is important. It’s a display of respect. It’s the visual equivalent of being on time. Now, to be sure, If you’re a douchebag, then you’re a douchebag. And a Suit, a pair of trendy jeans, or a deep-sea diving outfit is not going to change that. But when I read things like I don’t get it cut so that I look nice for other people., that screams disrespect. Do you also only bathe so that you don’t have to smell yourself?
Even out of a professional context, a person should strive to be punctual, look clean, and have a pleasant attitude. Give respect and you get respect back!
Sorry to get all Ms. Manners on you
brad
on 18 Jan 07@mimo: “And why do men shave their beard? Becasue they wanna look like a woman?”
No, because they “want” to look like a prepubescent boy, just like women who shave their legs “want” to look like prepubescent girls! Actually they don’t really “want” to look like that consciously at all, but I remember seeing studies concluding that many women are subconsciously attracted to men who shave because they look more like boys, or more specifically like babies. This also explains why so many guys have been shaving their heads in the last 10 years or so…you look even more like a baby when you shave your head, and many women like that. Of course, truly bald men (who don’t have to shave their heads) have always been considered sexy in part because of this but also because it’s a signal that they’ve got loads of testosterone. ;-)
Piers Cawley
on 18 Jan 07I have a bespoke suit: when you’re built like me, bespoke is about the only thing that will fit, plus I was training as a teacher and teachers pretty much have to wear a suit in most UK schools.
I still wear it, even when I don’t have to, simply because it’s about the most comfortable set of clothing I own, either with one of the shirts I had made at the time or (more likely) a plain t-shirt.
I’ve worn it at EuroOSCON and I don’t think I got taken for a ‘suit’.
A cheap suit is a horrible thing to wear and I can’t blame Mark for disliking them. A bespoke suit is an entirely different ball of wax. My only regret is that I’ve only got the one. When I’m next in funds I expect to be commissioning another one (or maybe just a couple of pairs of trousers).
Oh… and the pockets. My tailor couldn’t quite believe how many I wanted, but it’s amazing how much you can carry in a decent jacket and still have it hang well if your tailor knows what he’s about.
"D"
on 18 Jan 07Never recall seeing Michael Jordan at a post-game press conference without a suit and tie – Indeed, MJ did not need to impress anyone – he did that on the field of play – Guess he just preferred a suit in lieu of Air Jordan apparel!
David Andrew Thompson
on 18 Jan 07Whereas I tend to lean to the adage “can’t judge a book by its cover” over “clothing makes the man,” I can’t help but note a couple of thoughts…
1. Dress for Context! When was the last public official who didn’t wear a suit that you voted for? Naturally since we are talking about the issue most people will protest, but if it came down to the voting booth, even in your own party, you would probably vote for the one who dressed like they were serious.
2. Coding makes the (wo)man! The programming world is one where a person’s coding, or portfolio is their suit. Nobody expects a construction contractor to dress in a suit. In fact, they would probably not be trusted. But if they showed up in Carhartts and jeans, they would most likely be hired.
3. Who’s fooling who? It is often ironic to me that many of the anti-suit protesters are people who end up defining a very specific attire and wardrobe of their own. Rather than the suit becoming the uber fashion standard, a person is judged by the cleverness of their logo, the label on their jeans, or the gadget they carry in their pocket. In the end on a strictly numbers consideration it costs less to own a couple of suits than to have to purchase all of the other label attire.
Just my two cents…great article
Nathaniel
on 18 Jan 07I’ve had several classes for school, such as debate club, where I have had to wear a suit. I wouldn’t want to wear one if I was trying to be productive. When it comes to speaking, however, I notice that wearing a suit helps me to be more focused and to “play the role.”
Jason Swihart
on 18 Jan 07Take a look at Mark Cuban. His advice on fashion is about as useful as Giorgio Armani’s advice on running a basketball team.
Ethan Bodnar
on 18 Jan 07I go to a private day high school. (no I am not rich at all) Anyways, we have formal dress every Friday when we have to wear ties and jackets. Every day we have to wear collared shirts and khaki pants. Not that bad, I guess. But I think my friends and I would feel more comfortable in whatever we want to wear.
Tracy Smith
on 18 Jan 07Definitely not a fan of the suit. Of course, everyone once in awhile it is nice to play dress-up. I used to live for Casual Friday’s just so I could be more productive. I guess it’s the comfort thing. I am always in a better mood and more productive when I wear jeans.
Mike Maddaloni
on 18 Jan 07Wearing what the customer wears has always been important. Years ago, in my mainframe consulting days, I was assigned to work in a manufacturing facility. I was told to go and buy some blue shirts, as a white shirt means you were management, and nobody would talk to you!
Seth
on 18 Jan 07I work at home, so wearing a suit to work would be pretty weird.
Although I will say the ladies love a sharp dressed man. When I hit the club I’m suited and booted to the fullest!
Deepak
on 18 Jan 07Kelly Smith said it best, so not much to add there. If you’re fake, it doesn’t matter what you’re wearing. If you wears jeans and a polo shirt just to fit in, it will show just like wearing a suit just to fit in or whatever reason one might have. That said, anyone who makes too much of a fuss about attire has other issues.
John
on 18 Jan 07I recently switched jobs and went from a completely casual environment (shorts + t-shirt) to a white collar suit and tie environment. A few months later, I moved buildings and the managing staff consented to allow a “business casual” dress code.
A couple things that I noticed: (1) People do indeed treat you differently because of what you wear. (2) Most people in tech look like slobs no matter what they are wearing. (3) If you have a business casual environment, error on the side of dressing up too much, otherwise you’ll just look like a slob. (4) There are some nice suits and wearing one to a meeting or to a pitch is not a bad thing, especially if the account justifies it. (5) For meetings, you should always dress at least as well as your customers, if you don’t, you’ll be remembered as the slob.
Burt Brumme
on 18 Jan 07A man in a good suit can look Damn good, and from the sounds of it, Mark Cuban needs to start shopping in better stores.
Besides that fact, there is the fact that wearing a suit is not only meant to inspire confidence in the wearer, but in the viewer. Wearing a suit to a meeting can be a sign of respect, which is the real idea behind traditional formal wear. You dress up for someone to say, ‘hey, I think you’re worth getting dressed up for’. After all, you don’t see yourself in your suit beyond a few minutes in front of a mirror in the morning. The rest is for the benefit of the people looking at you, so what are you saying for them if you put little or no effort into your appearance?
BillyWarhol
on 18 Jan 07Ironically I fired off an email to Mark last week cuz i’m trying to raise some $$$ to $ponsor a World Tour whereby I visit a lot of the talented Artists & Photographers on Flickr* Showcasing the Web2.0 Social Networking & User-generated content of Photos, Videos, Music Podcasts, iTV, Books, Art & much more* A New Widget encompassing all these elements would be produced*
I know it’s only been 5 days & I haven’t heard back yet from Mark but I want him to be dressed as Comfortably as possible when he writes that BIG Check!!
Cheers! Billy ;))
Anthony
on 18 Jan 07A suit is not only about the perception of status, nor just about “fashion”. When I dress up, it is to experience the human culture of the event (such as at a nice restaurant, etc).
Dressing up is about participation in other cultures (subcultures). It’s far more than simply fitting in, or communicating your power status or “sharpness”.
Jesper
on 18 Jan 07What about if we turn the heat up and just sit naked wearing diapers? Would that make us more productive? It is not about insecurities, it is like Narendra’s gentleman friend said. It about showing respect to the people you work with. And I am definitly more productive if the people next to me are wearing beautiful and expensive Costume National suits. Doesn’t even have to be an entire suit, but it has to show: “Hey, I care about not looking like trash in the morning and I wan’t to inspire you by wearing something stunning!”
Mb.
on 18 Jan 07Before my very first client presentation (for a very conservative government agency) at my very first job, I asked my boss what to wear. He said that as a “creative” I should look clean but casual, i.e. no tie, no suit, leave your nosering in. He, as manager, would wear a suit, but not an expensive one. The other boss, who was the money behind the company, would wear something really flash.
His idea was wear what your clients expect from your position. When the three of us walked in, the client knew what each of us was at a glance, and had a context for conversations with each of us.
Regardless where and for who I’ve presented, as a designer I’ve never once worn a suit and never once experienced a negative reaction because of it.
Thomas
on 18 Jan 07Wearing a suit removes the focus from what you wear to who you are and what you say. Kind of like a uniform. So no political statements on the T-shirt, it’s purely you and what you say and do. That’s why I wear a suit.
Neil Wilson
on 18 Jan 07I actually like suits, and shirts and ties. Good ones that are tailor made and feel right.
Essentially you are always being prejudged whereever you go. What you look like and how you hold yourself matters. It would be better if the world wasn’t like that, just like it would be better if Jade Goody had never appeared on TV. Unfortunately you have to work with what you’ve got.
At least with a business suit I know where I am. I have absolutely no idea what I would have to wear at a Rails Conference to be taken seriously. Anybody got any pointers?
NeilW
Matt Lacey
on 18 Jan 07I save suits for special occassions, important meetings and interviews. My wife also like it when I wear one, coz I look smarter and not the usual scruff who hangs around the house..
Back on topic, for work I always wear a suit and tie. Even if the tie is optional where I’m working. The fact that I’m wearing a tie makes the collar feel different (top button done up). This has become a subconscious trigger that I’m dressed for a special situation (work) and so need to behave differently than if I was doing something for myself or for fun. I’m being paid to do a specific thing and so my attire helps remind me of this.
stef
on 18 Jan 07wearing a suit in business = judge this book by its cover. not good
mbadge
on 18 Jan 07Context definitely matters. I once met a friend for lunch at Apple in Cupertino. Being from Boston and thinking…summer, nice but casual…I wore a short-sleeve collared shirt, beige slacks and brown shoes (matching belt, natch).
My friend met me in the lobby and was wearing shorts, T-shirt and sneakers. After saying hello, his first comment was, “My friends were just asking me what position you were here to interview for.”
Britnet Spears
on 18 Jan 07Maybe he was referring to a “birthday suit”.
Greg Cannon
on 18 Jan 07Yup. Depends on the audience. Let’s face it, in some circumstances, wearing shorts and a T-shirt is natural, in others it’s just a barrier that you’ll have to overcome before people take you seriously. If you’re brilliant, they’ll ignore it, but why make extra work for yourself?
emi
on 18 Jan 07I know one thing for sure… you don’t need a suit in the outsourcing business ;) .
Bil Kleb
on 18 Jan 07I chose my career and placed of employment based on not having to where a suit: government research scientist.
Karl N
on 18 Jan 07If I’m just trying to get work done, it doesn’t really matter what I’m wearing. Pajamas are just as good, assuming I’m at home.
If I need to be social for my work, then I am most productive when I am wearing something I feel confident in, like a new shirt and nice pants. Not something stiff, but something that I think is stylish and fitting for my personality, rather than lazy and comfortable.
Oftentimes I dress pretty lazy for work and as a result I am generally less social and outgoing, because I didn’t prepare for it.
Bernie
on 18 Jan 07Ever eat lunch or dinner in a suit…its brutal. Sitting in weird couches in lobbies suck.. Planes and suits suck..I am sure there are many others.
Peter Hentges
on 18 Jan 07My boss used to tell me, “Dress for the job you want, not the job you have.”
When my boss told me that I replied, “Great! I want a job making 50k/year that lets me wear blue jeans every day.”
I figure if Steve Jobs can wear jeans and black turtlenecks all the time, there’s no real reason I can’t.
Juan Gonzalez
on 18 Jan 07Let me use an analogy that this crowd can relate to: you know those beautifully designed packages that Apple designs for each and all of their products? Of course the product is great, but being presented as top-class from the beginning tells you a lot. A suit is only value-added. You are already smart and likely a great presenter. People will just feel great in your company when you take care of yourself.
Benjamin R
on 18 Jan 07I can’t afford a dang suit! :)
Carlos Pero
on 18 Jan 07I think only one person mentioned image. By being a businessman and never wearing a suit, Mark Cuban presents the image that he doesn’t have to if he doesn’t want to. And honestly that’s one of the first things I think of when I hear his name. Clearly with his musings on suits, that’s the image he WANTS to project.
The first and second comments on this post avoid fancy restaurants because of the hassle of dressing up. That’s too bad…fancy restaurants can have really good food…but if you don’t value trying new, good food, then so be it. Wear jeans and order a pizza. That argument doesn’t have anything to do with your image (but it does have to do with the image the restaurant wants to project).
Watch this guy getting fitted for custom shirts to go with his suits. It’s Chris Gardner (Pursuit of Happyness). I’m pretty sure he doesn’t have to wear suits if he doesn’t want to either.
http://www.businesspov.com/article/80
i5mast
on 18 Jan 07About suits being uncomfortable… Part of the problem is that you can’t just by a suit off the shelf. It needs to be proper tailored to feel comfortable in it.
Steve R.
on 18 Jan 07This is a ‘know your audience’ issue. If a suit gets in the way of your message, by all means avoid one. If not wearing a suit will interfere, then wear a suit you are comfortable in. I understand and sympathize with the anti-authoritarian slant, but hey – if wearing a suit means you can enjoy great food, or get your message across to an audience you would not normally reach, why not? It isn’t a question of ‘they don’t take you seriously without a suit’, it’s more like ‘why distract your audience by deliberately violating their norms?’ It’s all about how much you want to communicate with people.
Steve R.
on 18 Jan 07FYI – Comfortable suits don’t have to be ridiculously expensive. Yah, you can’t do it for $300-400 very easily (you’ll get poor quality and it won’t last). In the US, Brooks Bros. will tailor and ‘off the rack’ to you and you will be very comfortable in it for about $1,200. Sounds like a lot, until you figure out how much wear you will get out of a well-made suit. I know people who have the same suit today thay bought 20 years ago – and yes, it still looks good. ‘Style’ is not the same as ‘fashion’ – a stylish 20-year-old, well-kept suit will look great and be completely appropriate today.
Would you pay $60 a year for a good suit, every year for 20 years?
Ian
on 18 Jan 07I agree whole-heartedly with “suit magnifies missed expectations.”
Every morning I ride the Blue Line downtown with 20-30 suits and invariably I’m the one giving up my seat when the old woman gets on the train as they bury their noses in the WSJ.
When the scruffy tattooed kid comports himself better than the button-ups something is amiss.
Ben Darlow
on 18 Jan 07When I first left university, I actively discriminated against jobs that required me to wear a suit. I considered it a bad sign of the environment and atmosphere they wanted to cultivate inside the company.
Six years on, and I work for a company where I wear a suit. Eventually I decided I’d not let it stop me and instead I’d hear them out and ignore the dresscode requirement. I don’t regret the decision, and there’s still a good working atmosphere, although some mornings I’d like it if I could just roll up in a t-shirt and jeans…
brad
on 18 Jan 07know people who have the same suit today thay bought 20 years ago – and yes, it still looks good.
Mine’s 17 years old this year and it looks as good as it did when I bought it…and I didn’t pay much, maybe $150 or $200. Keeping a suit that long is a good incentive to not gain weight…if my waist had expanded, ugh I’d have to buy a new suit!
Geoff B
on 18 Jan 07I’m kinda bummed that I never wear a suit at work. I wouldn’t want to do it every day, but it wouldn’t be so bad if, now and then, there was an occasion that warranted dressing up.
I think most of the hostility to suits must come from the east coast, where people actually wear suits. In the bay area, the only people I know who wear a suit to work are lawyers, and maybe some bankers. Nobody else does. In software, you’d look like a bit of a dufus in a suit, even if you aren’t on the technical side. This includes interviews.
Maybe back east, people associate suits with the drudgery of work. Out here, I associate “business casual” with drudgery. If I’m putting on a suit or dressing up in any way, it almost always means I’m going to a party or a funeral. And because there’s a 100:1 ratio between parties and funerals, I have very positive feelings about a suit!
Jorn Mineur
on 18 Jan 07When I’m in Italy, it always strikes me how elegantly people are dressed. It is a wonderful sight.
In many parts of the US and Northern Europe, people don’t care about how they dress.
There is nothing worse than people who don’t care.
Ed
on 18 Jan 07I think that you have to brand yourself and the clothes you wear are part of your brand. What you wear tells a story. More than suit or no suit its a matter of style and finding what suits you. I think Cuban looks pretty bad in his tshirts and probably would look even worst with a suit. He needs a makeover.
Another important issue is weather. I live in Puerto Rico and most businessmen wear suits, that’s plain crazy considering how hot it is outside.
Also, bad suits fit badly and are unconfortable. Recently I bought a Zara suit and I felt the difference, I am not going back to cheap suits.
Broom
on 18 Jan 07what about the notion that you should dress well in order to impress your supervisors and generally look confident and on top of your work? I’m not talking about a suit here… i’m just talking about dressing better than a t-shirt and jeans.
i work in a relaxed enviorment where t-shirt and jeans/shorts are the norm, so i’m a bit torn by all the advice that you should dress well even in those situations. I’m a t-shirt kind of guy, but i try to wear a button up shirt and jeans (un-tucked, sleeves rolled up) 50-75% of the time…
do you think that dressing slightly better than the “norm” at your place of work is a good thing in our web design / dev enviornment?
Danno
on 18 Jan 07A good suit makes me look snappy. Sometimes, I feel like lookin’ snappy.
AA
on 18 Jan 07Mark Cuban is a total dweeb. After being one of the few people to cash out of the Internet Bubble with a company that has basically been shut down by Yahoo, he decides to opine on fashion and denigrade those that do things for mere appearance. Gee, what about that peroxide bimbo he married? One would have thought that a geek like Cuban would have gone for a scientist or a fellow programmer. Instead, he sacks up with a Barbie look alike. For what? Maybe, it’s because he wants to APPEAR in Dallas’ high society scene without being laughed at.
As for suits, they are worth wearing simply because they are the uniform for grown-ups. THAT’S RIGHT, I SAID IT. Those with an infatuation for ultra-casual clothing are merely losers who can’t let go of their adolescense. That’s why in Europe and in other places where males are more civilized and have let go of their adolescence, people where suits. The modern suit it is uniform of the civilized grown up. All this nonsense about “not being judged for appearance” is nonsense. Our whole society is about making snap judgements, and last I checked, IT professionals are just as judgemental, vulgar, and into pop culture as everybody else. Besides, wearing casual DEVELOPED AS A STATUS SYMBOL among tech geeks. After all, it showed people that you were so freakin’ important that people had to deal with you even though you don’t wear suits.
So, bottom line: grow up, put on a suit and some nice dress shoes, and act professional. If you want to act casual, stay home and get a job for adolescents.
Broom
on 18 Jan 07wow…. well you go wear your suit and be successful. I’ll do what i do and be successful… in my grown up job…. working with major corporations… wearing flip flops.
Michael James
on 18 Jan 07Burn the suit! :)
Honestly, I detest suits with a passion. I don’t remember ever being happy while wearing one. Ditto for “business casual.” I live near Philadelphia, where more often then not, you run into the “business casual” job market.
I don’t understand why I have to dress up so I can come to work, sit in a bland, beige cubicle all day and work on in-house software. Who’s the fancy clothes for? To impress my computer? Just add this to the ever-growing list of reasons to start your own business.
Michael James
on 18 Jan 07I just read AA’s post.
You really need to read the Getting Real book. Acting professional? What about being professional? That didn’t require a suit last time I checked. Most people are not happy or comfortable wearing a suit. If they were, why do the same people who dress up Monday to Friday not wear those suits after work and on the weekends?
Better yet, what about being happy? Life is too short to live any other way. Don’t rip people for trying to make their lives happier.
carlivar
on 18 Jan 07Pointing out that Mark Cuban is arrogant is like saying Michael Jordan was good at basketball.
I also detest dressing up and wearing suits, but the fact is that they are an illogical part of society and occasionally you have to “play the game”. For example I always wear a suit to a job interview. I just want to appear like I am taking the job very seriously, and a suit helps to convey that – like it or not. It’s hard to convey your knowledge and experience in a 30 minute interview so I’ll take whatever edge I can get.
Danno
on 18 Jan 07You know, I just realized that it’s not suits that are the problem it’s those accursed ties!
They’re terrible! Why did we ever invent ties?
Suits are okay, it’s like, you know, nice looking clothes plus a matching jacket. The tie is what turns it into bondage.
Tom
on 18 Jan 07This is really a toss-up. I’m not a fan of suits, and would abhor wearing one regularly. Even a shirt and tie makes me uncomfortable.
On the other hand, I would still wear one to virtually any job interview. There are many people who think along Cuban’s lines, but there are too many more who will hold the lack of a suit against you unless you’re otherwise a complete slam dunk.
andrew
on 18 Jan 07I hate suits. I mean I really hate suits. In particular, I hate ties. They’re uncomfortable, impractical and look just plain silly. Why should a floppy piece of fabric tied tightly around one’s neck connote respectability and professional ability? I have no problem with the notion of dressing well but I will never, ever understand the mentality that considers a shiny, polyester suit better dressed than elegant, designer casual gear.
I think too that there is something rather sexually submissive or similar about suits. The split in the back of the jacket coyly providing access to the backside, the satin fabrics, the long floppy thing hanging down…
I remember seeing the Scottish comedian Billy Connolly live. He called suits liar’s clothes, what we wear when going for a loan, a job…
Mostly tho’ I refuse to wear a suit, except for weddings and funerals, because I suffer bad eczema and wearing a woollen suit through an Australian summer leaves me with raw and bleeding patches of skin.
Giles Bowkett
on 19 Jan 07I wear a suit because it goes well with my mohawk.
Matt Grey
on 19 Jan 07Let me be very clear about this – we all wear suits. A suit is a piece of clothing suited to the environment / situation it is being worn in – it is suitable. This is where the term comes from. Shorts and vest, jeans and T’, shirt and tie, wetsuit and flippers, finest worsted wool. All suits; all suitable to different situations; all for different reasons. Nobody here feels that they have a problem with the practical limits of a suit, it is the sociology that seems to be in question.
Now this may seem just a bit too clever-clever and pedantic. It isn’t.
We all, man and beast, live in a society; society involves interaction between people; and thus to claim that you don’t care what other people think of you is either complete nonsense or makes you a hermit. The truth of it is that we will wear what is sociologically suitable to the people that have a direct influence on us. The people we care about. This is what Mark Cuban’s article is about. He has worn a suit because he has had to; now he doesn’t have to, he doesn’t. If you want to dress to impress then wear the clothes that will impress the people you want to. Business, pleasure, whatever.
So, it’s back to the practicality? Well, suits are restrictive but so are tight jeans. They can be expensive but so is a lot of stuff. They are uncomfortable, not necessarily. But the really important thing is that practicality is a combination of form and function. And that the function can be social. See above.
I hope I’ve earned myself a free pitch. Check out our suits. I think they’ll strike a chord. www.socialsuicide.co.uk
jaysen
on 19 Jan 07There are two important factors about what we wear to work, personal comfort and self-determination. The shirt/jeans/shorts philosophy scores high on both counts, so it must be the ultimate right? no! why not? other people (remember them?).
Suits were never designed to be comfortable, and by virtue of their having specific designs/palettes they cramp our self-determination too. Wearing a suit is a sacrifice (comfort, freedom) that people who wear them choose to make as a sign to their peers that the wearer is willing to subordinate their personal gratification in favor of more worthy ideals. This message has been diluted with time and familiarity (i don’t pretend that suit wearer utters this mantra when suiting up in the morning) but nonetheless, suits are not an accident.
Jökull Sólberg Auðunsson
on 19 Jan 07Dudes that don’t wear suits need to get over it. A suit that suits you looks sharp. Looking sharp makes you feel good.
Also getting home and shedding the suit can help you forget about work and focus on family. For those that are concerned with family.
My girlfriend is a stewardess and her costume may not be comfy but apart from dealing with costumer/employer expectations she’s also signaling to passengers that she is an employee. Society values this stuff.
Brian Burridge
on 19 Jan 07I was in sales for a while, and salesmen are instructed to always wear suits, but I think that is from a different era. I’ll give an example. I was recently in physical therapy for a knee injury. Everyone in the office was in comfortable workout clothes. The secretary and therapist were in casual office clothes. In walks two salesmen in suits. They looked so absolutely ridiculous. Yes, everyone in the office stopped and looked at them. But the look on people’s faces was priceless. Everyone was thinking the same thing…”oh no…salesmen”. Granted if they’d walked in wearing sweatpants and a tshirt they wouldn’t have been taken seriously, but they could have dressed very nicely without the tie and coat, and made themselves look more approachable. You need to match your clothes to your environment. If you are too casual you look like an apathetic slob. If you are too dressed up, you look arrogant and like your expensive car just broke down and you just came in to use the phone.
Michelle
on 20 Jan 07Suits rule!
What’s not to like about a matching jacket and pants? I used to spend a lot of time coordinating outfits before I switched to Tahari suits.
Wearing a suit takes your mind off your appearance, especially for women. You can focus more intently on the task at hand or the customer’s needs when everything is in order.
I think the dislike of suits is a response to what suits represent to the author rather than the actual pinstriped fabric with 3 button closure and stylish tailoring.
http://stores.ebay.com/shining-star-suits
doug
on 21 Jan 07Amen!
anil
on 21 Jan 07Suits were adopted for business use in order to create a neutral environment where business could be conducted without distractions. As such they have been an important tool in conducting business globally (or even nationwide) – rather than enhancing the differences between those conducting business, they homogenise the identity of the people involved, allowing them to focus on the task at hand, usually some form of capitalism.
It’s arguable whether this is progressive in any way (understanding cultural differences through business seems more interesting to me), but they serve a function as one of the many ‘conventions’ of business. I don’t use them, as i regard most business conventions meaningless, but i can see why some people (particularly those who conduct business in lots of different environments/countries) do.
The ‘salesman’ suit can be regarded a cheap ploy to gain a consumer’s trust quickly through some form of legitimacy afforded by clothing. It’s obviously vulgar.
Justin
on 21 Jan 07My takeaway on this is simply - I’m with Cuban in the sense that people shouldn’t need to wear a suit to show respect. You can show up to a funeral in decent clothing - not a suit—and still show a tremendous amount of respect.
HIS MAIN POINT IS SIMPLY – “WHY”
It’s this respect for traditions and societal norms that he’s questioning, and I with him on this.
Why do I have to wear a suit to a job interview? Because someone told me that you should to “play the game.” Sure, people did it a long time ago. And those people are largely the people that control the companies and capitalism of which we’re all of a part of each day. So it’s just that—we’re afraid to question and disrespect those in control for fear that we’ll lose our jobs, we’ll be the odd man out, we’ll be the one guy without a suit in a room full of people with suits…nobody wants to be that different.
Personally - if someone showed up to interview with me and they’re wearing a suit - my first thought would be…”this guy thinks he NEEDS to wear a suit and HE PLAYED ALONG…” That’s not necessarily a value or sign of respect I’d be looking for. Blind subordination scares the shit of me.
I’d be looking for someone that knows their shit and isn’t afraid to say “yeah, i didn’t need to wear a suit today to look respectful, etc. etc.” It would (literally) have the completely opposite effect of me…
Vulgar? Completely agreed.
Henry Porter
on 22 Jan 07clicked here by accident
is this a junior high school blog and topic?
am i wearing the cool clothes?
“values”?
Uh, be yourself but not too different. We call it “society.” Artfully tousle your hair on the weekend. Or not. whatever. Now let’s go do something decent.
hater plus
on 23 Jan 07“I bought both of those polyester wonders, one Grey pinstripe, the other blue pinstripe for a total of $99 dollars plus tax. To go with those fashion forward wonders, I had several white polo button downs that I had purchased used from a re-sale shop, and a couple ties that I had bought on sale or had gotten as hand me downs from friends.”
He looks like a slob and he has no taste. He’s like your typical accidentally rich texan. What a waste of space.
This discussion is closed.