It’s been too long since we redesigned this blog. Years and years. It’s time for a complete redesign. We thought it would be a good idea to eat our own dogfood and choose a firm from Sortfolio to do the redesign.
Here’s how it works
On March 8th we’ll choose a firm listed on Sortfolio to redesign Signal vs. Noise (this blog). The firm will be a paid Pro listing, we will not consider free listings for this project. If you want to be considered, please upgrade your listing to Pro.
Budget, time frame, and scope
The budget for the redesign will be $8500. The time frame will be 30 days from start to final delivery of HTML/CSS templates. We’ll do the integration with our back end systems. The scope will be redesigning the overall look and feel, the main page including all the different post styles (long-form article, video embed, quote, link, etc), a post page with and without comments, the archive page, and possibly one more page yet to be determined.
We’d like the new design to accurately represent the 37signals aesthetic and brand, but we’re open to exploring alternate directions too as long as they are consistent with what we stand for. We can talk more about this with the firm we choose.
Interested? Here’s how to apply
We only want to consider firms that want the job. So here’s how it’ll work. If you are a Sortfolio Pro member (you have a paid listing), and you want to have a shot at the project, send us a tweet in the following format:
Hey @37signals, we want to redesign SvN. http://sortfolio.com/YOUR-SORTFOLIO-URL-HERE #sortfoliosvn
Your tweet must be in this format to be considered. We’ll review your work and get in touch if we have any further questions. We may also contact firms who haven’t tweeted if we think they may be a good match.
We’re excited to see how this works out.
Vojto
on 17 Feb 10SVN looks perfect just the way it is.
Ahmad
on 17 Feb 10@Vojto: I agree, but I think it is more of a marketing campaign.
Ethan
on 17 Feb 10So, let me get this straight—you pay to get the chance to get chosen to get paid? That’s really dumb.
Why not just choose a design company or freelancer?
Mitch
on 17 Feb 10I like the idea of ‘eating your own dog food’—so in this case, choosing someone from your own service. But I feel that having people/companies enter this competition is contrary to the whole point of the service.
Isn’t the idea that a company can choose a great design firm based on its presentation? Then why make it so that you will make a choice from only companies who enter the competition.
In a way, you are defeating the purpose of your own product in this way.
mike
on 17 Feb 10@Ethan
So don’t pay?
Matt
on 17 Feb 10@Ethan: Because they own Sortfolio, hence eating their own dogfood? You’re paying for a service that should be useful to designers, then entering your work into the ring. They’ll choose a solid designer and go from there. It’s showing how Sortfolio is actually supposed to work, rather than a cheap and bad-for-the-industry spec design challenge. You won’t enter if you don’t like the budget and scope.
Sortfolio wins, SVN wins, and whoever gets the bid wins. Great idea. Self-serving, sure, but 37signals is in the business of making Sortfolio successful. Besides, the SVN design could use an update.
Anonymous Coward
on 17 Feb 10So, let me get this straight—you pay to get the chance to get chosen to get paid? That’s really dumb.
Then don’t enter. Or don’t enter any awards competition where you pay to enter and all you have a chance to win is an “award” – not a $8500 gig which will net you enormous exposure as well.
Anonymous Coward
on 17 Feb 10@Mitch: You’re not understanding. It’s not entering a contest. Designers as basically saying: Hey, check out our work, maybe you’ll like what you see and hire us. It’s a better of filtering out firms that aren’t interested in the project. $8,500 and a high-profile redesign might be interesting to a different kind of designer than just the huge listing of all designers with Pro accounts.
James Deer
on 17 Feb 10Not sure I agree with the idea of this.
Good luck finding the right company though.
brookr
on 17 Feb 10Right, it isn’t a contest. But it does have a built-in marketing campaign. By requiring the tweet to start with ‘Hey…’, rather than just ’@37signals’, they are getting the sortfolio link in front of all the followers of any designers who want to be considered.
It is smart. That is a small price to pay for being considered for such high-profile work. I’ve seen a lot of companies do that very thing wrong with their contests.
Why not build some marketing into your bid process? Sounds like a good REWORK concept to me!
Mitch
on 17 Feb 10@Anonymous coward: I don’t agree. 37Signals could just choose from ALL companies on Sortfolio that indicate they do work on projects in this range. Or all companies that work in that range and have a paying account, if that’s what matters.
Why make companies send a tweet to be included in this choosing? I feel that is a needless step. It doesn’t do anything for the process of choosing the right company, except excluding those who don’t use Twitter.
ceejayoz
on 17 Feb 10@Mitch Requiring a tweet means they saw the post on SVN, which means they read SVN, which means they’re more likely to do a design that fits the readership and content.
Only including paid Sortfolio folks in the contention creeps awfully close to the issues people have with designing on spec, though.
BradM
on 17 Feb 10@Mitch Why would they want to choose from the free listings? This is a great way to convert free to Pro sign ups accounts.
There’s really a simple answer for your comments. Just ignore it and go away. No one is forcing you to Tweet or signup.
Sean
on 17 Feb 10I’ve never used sortfolio before, but this looks really interesting. Is there a sign-up discount for students?
Hashmalech
on 17 Feb 10Bye bye, beloved old SvN :’(
Christoph
on 17 Feb 10Hm, this is interesting. This approach is very marketing-focused, which is great to get exposure and a good deal on the project. However, it may not get the best design result, since only companies with Sortfolio pro-accounts are allowed. Interesting decision you have made, hope you get both good design and good exposure.
Jonas
on 17 Feb 10That is exactly what I was thinking.
Ben Ackles
on 17 Feb 10Great promotion for Sortfolio. I’m sure you’ll get some talented people to do the redesign, although that’s clearly not the intention of this campaign.
Anonymous Coward
on 17 Feb 10Design Contest! It’s easy, you just pay someone to critique your work. Why didn’t I think of that? I’m going to start paying all of my clients to pick me as the winner.
Joey
on 17 Feb 10I really hate this idea. I love their passion, I love their products, I hate this idea.
99designs + $99 a month = 37Signals
I am ignoring this, but they cheapen their brand by doing this. Thought I should voice my opinion.
JF
on 17 Feb 10Joey: We aren’t asking anyone to design something for us without paying them. This isn’t spec work. No one works for us without being paid. We’re looking at people’s past work to judge them, not advanced work for us.
It’s no different than entering a design in a design annual or contest. You pay to be included, they publish a book, you get exposure. Thousands and thousands of design firms do this every year. They pay to be included in a promotional piece in the hopes that someone will see their work and consider them for a project.
Except that in our case we’re actually picking one of the firms to do a project for us for $8500. Plus, you get the added exposure of being highlighted in Sortfolio to have a shot and getting more projects from other firms too.
Roy Tomeij
on 17 Feb 10Cool idea, but the tweeting part is too bad. Come on, having to start with “Hey” instead of ”@37signals”, so it will spam all followers?
Sacha
on 17 Feb 10My first instinct would be to say that something as iconic to 37Signals fans as the SvN blog should be redesigned in-house, to ensure it matches the 37Signals aesthetic.
But in any case I’ll be curious to see what we end up with.
Mitch
on 17 Feb 10@BradM > Why would they want to choose from the free listings?
Ehhmm… Because they want the best website they can get! If there is a design firm in the free listings that does great work, why would they not choose them?!
That is exactly what I meant in my first post. The whole idea of Sortfolio is providing businesses with a good way of finding the best design company for them. By unneccessarily narrowing the field, 37Signals are acting against their own principle. They might not get the ideal design firm the could have gotten, if that company doesn’t tweet. Where’s the logic in that?
That’s my feeling.
Justin
on 17 Feb 10@Ahmad and @Ethan
Sure there might be some marketing benefit to this (that’s where having people use twitter comes in), but the move makes complete sense if they’re truly “eating their own dog food” and choosing a design firm based on Sortfolio.
JF
on 17 Feb 10Mitch: The logic is that it’s a filter for us. Instead of considering entries from potentially 4000 companies listed on Sortfolio, we’re only going to have to consider entries from about 200 or less. And just a fraction of those will enter. Wading through hundreds or thousands of entries just isn’t going to happen – we don’t have time.
I’m confident that we’ll find a great firm who’s interested from the Pro listings.
Daniel Haran
on 17 Feb 10At $99/mo, you only need 86 designers to sign up or upgrade to get work for free.
Well played!
Berserk
on 17 Feb 10@Mitch:
The purpose is not to get the best possible design (then they would do it in-house :)).
The purpose is to [1] get firms to upgrade to a paid listing and [2] create awareness for Sortfolio.
David
on 17 Feb 10@JF Come on, Jason, this isn’t a filter. If 85 people sign up, you get your website for free. Not only that, this isn’t a one-time entry fee, it’s a subscription service. Sure, they can cancel, but the entire reason subscription models are good (for the business) is that most people DON’T cancel until long after they intended to (if ever).
It’s not $99 to enter—it’s a $99/month subscription. This isn’t about filtering. There are other ways to filter.
Anonymous Coward
on 17 Feb 10I wonder what Joel thinks about this…
Mitch
on 17 Feb 10@JF: I agree you have to filter. And I also get that using Pro accounts for a filter can work for you. Of course, it is nice to have a company do the design that knows you and your products. The main thing I don’t understand is why you put the decision whether or not to be considered into the hands of the company in stead of your own.
Now, you are essentially choosing from firms who follow your blog, use Twitter like the idea of this kind of thing. None of those things have anything to do with the ability to deliver great design work.
For the record, I have no problem what-so-ever with combining this project with some kind of marketing/attention plan. You would be stupid not to. I just feel that saying ‘we will be choosing a design firm from Sortfolio in 3 weeks’ would be enough. It would still draw people to upgrade, if that gives them the chance to be picked.
Brannon
on 17 Feb 10If you don’t like the terms, don’t enter. No one is entitled to anything here. It’s the way they’re choosing to run their own selection process. The fact that there’s the benefit of raising the profile of their other venture, Sortfolio, means they are smart people with their heads on straight. It’s called good business.
Nathan Bowers
on 17 Feb 10There’s danger in the disconnect between the project’s stated purpose (redesigning SvN to be the best it can be) and the project’s actual purpose (pimping Sortfolio).
JF
on 17 Feb 10David: It is a filter. And it’s also promotion. And it’s also marketing. And it’s also eating our own dog food. It’s all of these things.
I don’t expect anywhere near 85 new Sortfolio customers from this. There are already around 170 paid Sortfolio members – plenty to choose from. If no one else signs up for Pro that is completely fine with us. We need to get this project done, we think the budget is fair, and we’re going to pick a firm that’s listed on Sortfolio Pro.
Michael
on 17 Feb 10I think we’re all missing the main point which is that sortfolio should still be called Haystack. Come on, that was a great name!
Don Schenck
on 17 Feb 10Jason, looking forward to see this all work out. Sweet idea!
Hey naysayers … what are YOU building?
Wil Gieseler
on 17 Feb 10@JF
If you “don’t have time” to “wade through thousands of entries”, then what does that say about the quality of Sortfolio, which ostensibly is to make that exact process better?
JF
on 17 Feb 10Wil: It says that people who pay for Pro listings are more likely to be noticed and get work. That is the benefit of paying $99/month – you get a bigger ad, you get more pictures, and you show up at the top of the screen.
Aditya
on 17 Feb 10@Jason
“Mitch: The logic is that it’s a filter for us. Instead of considering entries from potentially 4000 companies listed on Sortfolio, we’re only going to have to consider entries from about 200 or less. And just a fraction of those will enter. Wading through hundreds or thousands of entries just isn’t going to happen – we don’t have time.”
Isn’t this then the problem for other people who are searching for designers on Sortfolio? How would they use Sortfolio? Arent’ these pain points for them as well?
Things to improve in Sortfolio.
Michael
on 17 Feb 10Will you factor location into account? i.e. a London, UK based company?
JF
on 17 Feb 10Michael: Location doesn’t matter to us. UK would be fine with us.
Steve
on 17 Feb 10“It says that people who pay for Pro listings are more likely to be noticed and get work. That is the benefit of paying $99/month – you get a bigger ad, you get more pictures, and you show up at the top of the screen”
Where’s the benefit if you’re making them “enter” on top of that?
Vladimir Andrijevik
on 17 Feb 10Jason: I am not sure I understand how this is eating your own dog food?
From the product’s website, Sortfolio’s value proposition is “Find the right web designer for your next project.” With this competition, you are using this blog + Twitter (not Sortfolio) to find the right web designer for your next project.
I understand the “It is a filter. And it’s also promotion. And it’s also marketing.” aspect of your reasoning, but I disagree that “And it’s also eating our own dog food.” Eating your own dog food would mean using Sortfolio the way you expect other companies to use it, which you are not doing here.
JF
on 17 Feb 10Where’s the benefit if you’re making them “enter” on top of that?
So they can express interest in the job. It’s like responding to an RFP over Twitter. “Yeah, count us in.”
Eating your own dog food would mean using Sortfolio the way you expect other companies to use it, which you are not doing here.
People can use Sortfolio to find a firm any way they want. This is how we’re using it in this situation. We may use it a different way another time.
Anonymous Howard
on 17 Feb 10@JF: “Wading through hundreds or thousands of entries just isn’t going to happen – we don’t have time.”
Maybe you should consider the process from the standpoint of a prospective client using Sortfolio to find a designer. If you can’t be bothered to sort through the listings, who else can?
I understand the “eating your dogfood” part, but why not select a few designers that impress you with their Pro listings in Sortfolio, have them bid the job/present a proposal or spec, and then choose the best designer? That’s the way that I would have to do it as end-users of Sortfolio, so I don’t see how you’re getting the true sense of usability from this exercise.
Just my $.02. I’m not a designer so I don’t have a dog in it.
Anonymous Coward
on 17 Feb 10I just wish I could read the footer content on sortfolio.com
Matt
on 17 Feb 10@Howard: I think Sortfolio is best for local clients only. I know I wouldn’t hire someone in Topeka for a job I need in Tuscon. 37s may feel differently about this project, but I think it’s a superior site to the typical googling “web designers tuscon” — plenty of scammers jacking with Google Juice.
Jared White
on 17 Feb 10I would agree with some of the commentors here that this is an unconventional way to use Sortfolio, but may I remind those folks that anyone could use Sortfolio this way. “My Hot Blog” could tell all its readers that it will chose a Web design company on Sortfolio if they respond by tweet. I’d say it’s a pretty smart move on 37signals part. If you don’t like how the rules work, don’t play.
DC
on 17 Feb 10Lol…Everyone is so jealous that 37signals can do this. Just let them pick a company however they want. They own the blog. The company that gets the work gets paid and exposure. Sounds like a win/win. What’s the big deal?
Gavin
on 17 Feb 10Some people have already tweeted but used the URL:
Probably a good idea not to choose them.
Steve
on 17 Feb 10AC – HAH! Yeah, that’s some dreadful UI…
Anonymous Coward
on 17 Feb 10OK, it’s not spec work, but for anyone that is not a paid up Sortfolio member, you are asking them to pay $99 to have a chance to be considered.
Why does paying $99 make them a better prospect? Why can’t you just make you’re own mind up who you would invite to tender?
This is not an innovative RFP method, just a blatant attempt at gaining attention for Sortfolio.
Fair play for what could be a good marketing campaign for you, but FWIW it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Alex
on 17 Feb 10It’s funny how many twitter posts there are which quote your directions exactly:
Hey @37signals, we want to redesign SvN. http://sortfolio.com/YOUR-SORTFOLIO-URL-HERE #sortfoliosvn
Three out of eight so far.
JF
on 17 Feb 10Just a blatant attempt at gaining attention for Sortfolio.
Yes, it is a blatant attempt at gaining attention for Sortfolio. That’s what promotion is. An attempt to gain attention so more people are aware of your product.
Plus, the attention gained benefits everyone who’s listed on Sortfolio – free and paid.
And it’s also a blatant attempt to find a web design firm to redesign Signal vs. Noise.
It can be both promotion and discovery.
This is all out in the open. No secrets, nothing hidden. It’s all blatantly obvious.
Anonymous Coward
on 17 Feb 10I agree, very blatant, very obvious. Very crass.
Not what I felt 37signals was about, but I am obviously very wrong.
Lance Sells
on 17 Feb 10Jason, We want to redesign SvN for 37signals: http://sortfolio.com/listings/6099-motherland-inc
Just having some fun but I do think your initial post is missing some info. The contest really consists of redesigning SvN as well as getting more people signed up to the premium Sortfolio site.
Jon and Justin Reese
on 17 Feb 10Brother designer/developer powerhouse team that loves, uses and follows 37s. Thank you for considering us! http://sortfolio.com/company/183-jonreese-com (my Sortfolio site) and www.JustinReese.com (some examples of my brother’s development work)
Jared
on 18 Feb 10Ugh, so if I don’t have a Twitter account, I can’t apply for this opportunity?
Jeff
on 18 Feb 10For the love of Pete – has anyone in this thread ever written a proposal? How much did it cost you? Did you get the job? Every time? I’ve coauthored proposals in response to state RFP’s for large data collection systems that took weeks to prepare – thousands of dollars in non-billable hours all for the chance to compete with 5-10 other vendors. It’s how it all works folks – that’s the market.
Stop twiddling on about what’s fair – there’s no fair/unfair – there’s only the market. 37s says, “Hey, pay us at least $99 and you get the chance to make $8.5k plus some great publicity.” If someone is willing to part with at least $99 to take that chance, then so be it. There’s nothing unfair about it.
And please, believing that 37s really needs to consider all 4000+ whatever Sortfolio subscribers in order to get the “best design possible” is ridiculous.
Iarfhlaith Kelly
on 18 Feb 10Jason, if geographic location isn’t important to you in your decision, wouldn’t it be fair to say that most other people choosing a design company through Sortfolio don’t really care either?
I’ve always thought that structuring Sortfolio listings by geographic location to be a little counter productive because at the end of the day, like you said yourself, it really doesn’t matter where they’re from.
Maybe you should rethink how Sortfolio groups different companies. I mean, even you guys don’t use it like that.
Lance Sells
on 18 Feb 10Jeff, Your eagerness to embrace “the market” is a small part as to why the market is the way it is.
Art and design professions have turned into these spec-work, crowd-sourced competitions. In any other profession the statement “Pay us $99 and you might get to work for us” would be laughed at.
Mark
on 18 Feb 10Some of you folks are being way short-sided about this. Sure, as Jason admitted, it’s a pure blatant attempt at marketing Sortfolio. But this is bad for you…how? If you have an account, free or paid, wouldn’t you want Jason out there kicking ass to get exposure to the site you’re listed on?
So you have to have a paid subscription to have a shot. Think about this…you market the free side of Sortfolio and guess what potentially happens, you (a) you flood the service with free exposure and (b) your ad ends up drowning and being lost in the flood of designers who may or may not be worth the talk they make.
So, yeh you have to tweet your interest. How awful. You and/or your agency can now be found with a search of #sortfoliosvn, or God forbid, #sortfoliosvn becomes a trending topic, and then you’re now exposed to order of magnitude more exposure.
Finally, how many of you pay three times as much to be part of an networking organization where you’re greatest benefit is getting 20 bucks off their conferences and luncheons.
I don’t agree with everything Jason or his company does, but I don’t disagree with everything either. Stop being so short-sided.
J
on 18 Feb 10Art and design professions have turned into these spec-work, crowd-sourced competitions.
What are you talking about?
The design industry is the best example of an industry that loves paying for client access. Go pick up one of the many design annuals. See those pages? Guess what – people had to pay to get in there. And they’re happy doing that because other people look at those pages to decide who they want to hire for their projects.
JF
on 18 Feb 10Jason, if geographic location isn’t important to you in your decision, wouldn’t it be fair to say that most other people choosing a design company through Sortfolio don’t really care either?
No, it wouldn’t be fair to say that. Not based on who we’ve talked to and what we’ve heard from small biz that is looking to hire a web designer/firm. They want to be able to sit down with them. They find a comfort level in that opportunity.
Most people we talk to prefer hiring people near by. Just like most people prefer working with people in the same physical location (telecommuting is rare).
We are one of the rare companies that doesn’t care, but most companies are not like us. Sortfolio is designed for the common case (location matters), not for our rare case (location doesn’t matter). But in the end it’s up to you. You can use a location filter on Sortfolio or you can ignore that filter. Your choice.
Christopher Murphy
on 18 Feb 10It’s interesting to see how this decision has played out in the comments. 37signals is such a well respected company in this industry, I think there’s a degree of genuine surprise and suggestion of loss of integrity.
The only ‘Pro’ accounts are eligible aspect (especially the way it’s expressed: “If you want to be considered, please upgrade your listing to Pro.”) coupled with the whole ‘tweet this’ angle adds up to something that looks a little suspect in many people’s eyes.
Equally interesting has been the way this has played out on Twitter with some very well respected designers – @iA and @markboulton – expressing concern at the approach that 37signals has taken on this.
At the end of the day, as The Cluetrain Manifesto pointed out over a decade ago, “The market is a conversation.” People are talking, both good and bad.
Scott
on 18 Feb 10@J:
“other people look at those pages to decide who they want to hire for their projects.” You contend that people get responses to their RFPs, and then open the design annuals to see if each responding party is listed in there, and then if you are not listed in the annual your proposal gets thrown out?
Scott
on 18 Feb 10Jason,
I think what you are hearing here is that your use of Sortfolio is not “eating your own dogfood”. No one else will use it the way you are. Sure everyone’s welcome to use it how they want. But, as you state in the FAQ’s, the whole point of paying to get in Sortfolio is to “drive potential clients to your site. Then you pick up where Sortfolio leaves off.”
Someone looking for a design firm goes to Sortfolio, finds firms they like, gets directed to the firms’ sites, and then contacts firms they like. What’s the point of a potential client saying “Let me know you’re interested in the job and link to your Sortfolio page so that I can then finally find my way to your own site?”
Scott
on 18 Feb 10Excited to see the design. How long will it take for 100 other sites to rip it off from 37s?
Frank Denbow
on 18 Feb 10@AC I agree, it is a bit strange that I cannot see the footer no matter how hard I try. I get what they were trying to do with the UI but it just is irritating at times. Great site though and good luck with the search.
Scott
on 18 Feb 10Still… despite the bad-taste this leaves for some people, if I were a designer or design firm, I’d buy the listing and tweet the tweet. I agree with what @Mark said above in that it’s kind of a win for everyone so why not take a shot?
Richard B.
on 18 Feb 10@James Deer “Good luck finding the right company….”
No need for luck.
Ka Wai
on 18 Feb 10@JF-
I have no qualms with you guys using this as a promotion/marketing/whatever tool. If companies who otherwise would not join the Pro plan will now, just for the opportunity to redesign SvN, that is completely their choice. If it’s a way for you to increase your membership count, then who wouldn’t do it?
However, I’m more curious as to why you’d want another firm to redesign the blog. I’d understand if this wasn’t a 37s specialty, but what do you gain by outsourcing your design (outside of a little time saved) when design is arguably the staple of your business?
Unless you guys see an opportunity here to learn what it’s like to be a web design client for once. I would be interested in hearing what pros there are to be had in the experience.
Aaron R.
on 18 Feb 10I agree that this is definitely not “eating your own dogfood.” Doing so would be sorting through those thousands of listings (which is apparently too difficult and/or time consuming), without tipping the scales in your favor.
JF
on 18 Feb 10However, I’m more curious as to why you’d want another firm to redesign the blog. I’d understand if this wasn’t a 37s specialty, but what do you gain by outsourcing your design (outside of a little time saved) when design is arguably the staple of your business?
Good question.
The main reason is we want to focus our design efforts on our products right now. We have a lot of work to do. A lot of ideas we want to explore. And we just don’t have the time to spend on the non-essential SvN redesign right now. But we want to freshen up SvN now.
We could put it off until we do, but we think it would be great to have some outside design perspective. Hire a firm that can look at us in a way we can’t look at ourselves. Mix our ideas with theirs and see what comes out.
We experiment a lot at 37signals. With how we work, with how we do business, with how we design. We think this will be a great experiment too.
Mark
on 18 Feb 10“The main reason is we want to focus our design efforts on our products right now.”
Just as a point of discussion, shouldn’t SvN be considered one of your “products”?
BradM
on 18 Feb 10What is it any of our business how or why 37S wants to have SvN designed?
It’s their blog … it’s their money, who are we to judge?
You could argue that SvN is a ‘product’ in a sense that it bring’s in revenue via ‘The Deck’ or that it may have been the jump start in 2004/05 to market the company and Basecamp.
But again, what is it any of our business? Now, if this was a government funded enterprise, yes I could see your point(s).
If anything, I think it would be interesting for 37s to document the process (screens / wireframes) and process that it took working with a third-party design company. That way, we all win.
Mark
on 18 Feb 10It’s not my business, and frankly I don’t care. As you say, it’s their business, and that’s perfectly fine with me.
I was just curious how they see SvN being separated from the product line, since everything they’ve produced as products involve web interfaces and posts.
Kevin Webber
on 18 Feb 10@JF
I think the contest is a wonderful idea. I don’t think anyone would fault a company (37signals) for promoting their own service with a contest like this. It’s also a fantastic opportunity for the designer you choose. I think what surprises people is that a company renowned for usability has discovered a usability issue with their own service, and rather than fixing it, has decided to circumvent it with Twitter.
Wouldn’t it be a good idea to build this type of feature into the application? It should be intuitive for a company to hit your site, narrow down a list of potential designers, and fire off a RFQ to them all. The RFQ (or something even more informal) could just be a preliminary step before a full-blown RFP (and the face-to-face meetings). Every company is crunched for time, so I just can’t imagine myself manually cruising through the site and contacting each designer one by one. Obviously 37signals feels the same way, hence the RFT (Request For Tweet). ;)
The contest itself is great though. It’s a fantastic opportunity for a designer to really make some waves.
Michael
on 18 Feb 10@Mark, I would guess svn isn’t considered a product proper because it is free for everyone.
Mark
on 18 Feb 10@michael—so are the tadalist and writeboard products
scooter
on 18 Feb 10Aw, just hire Big Spaceship and get it over with already.
Love the idea, except “the paid account only” part doesn’t sit right with me for some reason.
daniel
on 18 Feb 10good luck! i’m sure there are some idiots entering this “pitch 2.0”.
Chris
on 18 Feb 10Good enough the way it is, it couldn’t be $8500 better IMHO, but I’d like to be proved wrong!
Terry Sutton
on 18 Feb 10This is a great idea – good marketing, good advertizing, good for you, good for Sortfolio, good for the winning firm. Win win win.
As a side note, It alarms me how eager people are to beat down other people’s ideas. How willing they are to call any idea ‘stupid’.
As a company with more than a half dozen products, 20+ employees, and millions of users, I’m somewhat inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Good idea here.
nikroub
on 18 Feb 10@JF
For those already in pro its fair enaugh
For those already have a free sorfolio lisiting give out a first month upgrade to pro coupon
For those not listed at all and want to sign up for the “the contest” give also a first month discount coupon
Finally the choosen will get 8,5K plus a free one year pro subscription.
Thats totally win/win for everybody in, out and around sortfolio.
Great initiative anyway.
Tyler
on 18 Feb 10Brilliant idea and a win-win for everybody involved. My own criticism is that it’s not exactly “eating your own dog food.” As an outsider, I can only sort through the site to find a designer I like, I can’t put out an RFP or broadcast to everyone on sortfolio for a call for entries.
Eating dog food is using the job board to advertise for open positions.
This is more akin to 37signals searching for a project manager by saying they will only accept applications from Basecamp Max clients to show them how organized they are.
Joe
on 18 Feb 10Eating one’s own dog food, also called dogfooding, is when a company uses the products that it makes. 37S will use Sortfolio, a product they made, to help choose a firm. I’m not understanding people’s arguments with this phrase?
37S is simply determining interest, and based on interest they will review a firm’s Sortfolio listing and make a decision. Heck, they even say, “We may also contact firms who haven’t tweeted if we think they may be a good match.”
Why all the fuss?
@JF Have fun with the project!
Dan Sullivan
on 18 Feb 10@37signals
Isn’t this the exact opposite reason to use Sortfolio.
Sortfolio has the premise that YOU find the designer.
What this post is doing is asking the DESIGNER to find you.
Seems to complete de-funk the purpose of even having Sortfolio.
Essentially, what you have done is ask people to PAY $100 for a Pro listing for them to only then be qualified to CONTACT YOU . You’re basically telling people they have to pay you to contact you.
Now that is completely ass backwards and ethically wrong to say the least.
I expected better from you.
Ditto
on 18 Feb 10@dan sullivan: you hit the nail
Wayde Christie
on 18 Feb 10Sortfolio is a filter for this Request For Proposal.
Brad Fults
on 19 Feb 10Can this also be an opportunity to redesign your RSS feed? It’s ugly. Especially when the titles of link/quote/video/etc. posts are truncated abruptly, then repeated in the body.
Quality is needed.
Jimmy Chan
on 19 Feb 10@JF Don’t forget remember the firm about simplicity. Ease to read. Ease to remember.
Just like the current svn. Ah still love the current svn.
Paul Montwill - Switch Stories
on 19 Feb 10I can’t understand why so many people are negative about this idea.
It is very simple: 1. 37signals has a product called Sortfolio and they want to redesign their blog. So they say – “Why can’t we see how it works for us to find a design company using our own product? It really fits to the idea of buildinga product that solves our problem, right?”.
2. “But how are we going to pick the company that stands out in terms of attitude and design skills? Let’s focus only on PRO listings – there will be less agencies to search through and we will only have companies that REALLY wants the job”
3. “Hey, it will be also a good idea to promote Sortfolio and make people buy our PRO listings, ha?”
Even if the order of the above motivations was different it doesn’t matter. What is a big deal? They want to spend $8,500 and they put their rules on the table. What is a big deal?
Start your own business and set your own rules!
Brade
on 19 Feb 10I’m all for criticizing 37signals (or anyone else) when it’s deserved, but can we please stop getting our panties in a wad over this? It’s a completely sensible way for 37s to find the right designer, and SVN is way overdue for an update. Why all the jealousy and angst?
Dan Sullivan
on 19 Feb 10@Paul Montwill – Switch Stories
Read my comment posted a few above yours and you’ll understand why.
Bailey
on 19 Feb 10Interesting note, the number of Pro Sortfolio accounts in Chicago jumped from 4 to 13 since this announcement. I only know this because I have been considering upgrading my Sortfolio account to Pro and had been checking out the other pro accounts in Chicago (where we are located).
Once I saw Jason’s post, I thought this would happen. I think it is smart thinking on 37 Signals part. It is kind of stupid that some people are having a fit about this. If you don’t like it, take your ball and go home!
Nat Davis
on 19 Feb 10@Scott “You contend that people get responses to their RFPs, and then open the design annuals to see if each responding party is listed in there, and then if you are not listed in the annual your proposal gets thrown out?”
You’ve got it backwards. People look through design annuals to find firms whose work they like in order to decide who to send their RFPs out to.
It’s the same thing 37signals is doing here, and it’s common practice in the design world: Find people whose work you like (design annuals / paid accounts / whatever); find out if they’re interested in your project (RFP / tweet / etc.); Select a designer from the responses.
Paul Montwill - Switch Stories
on 19 Feb 10@Dan Sullivan “You’re basically telling people they have to pay you to contact you.”
I understand it in a different way – stand out, become prominent with your PRO listing and you have a chance of getting a job. It is like listings on eBay or Google Adwords: do you want to sell something? Pay more to be featured at the top. That’s all.
They encourage people to upgrade to PRO. There is nothing ethically wrong in it because if you buy the PRO account you receive added value + a chance to get a well paid job. They didn’t ask you to pay $100 just to have a chance of redesigning SVN.
If one day 37signals said – “we are not taking anybody from top 200 in organic search for ‘webdesign’ – we only focus on Google Adwords top 11”, would it be enthically wrong?
Want to get noticed? Pay more and stand out from other listings. It is a reality of the market. The more crowded the market is the more effort you need to put to stand out and BE CONTACTED.
Nathan Peretic
on 20 Feb 10Good luck to everyone participating. We’re keeping a list of all the entrants in a public Google spreadsheet and tracking the increase in Pro accounts as well.
We’ve also written an open letter to 37signals expressing our displeasure at the tweet requirement. There’s been a lot of commentary here about the perceived entrance fee, but we see spamming our followers as the bigger problem. Let us and 37signals know what you think.
Jean-Pierre Bobbaers
on 20 Feb 10Analyzes: If 37s wants to stay consequent with this initiative towards the future, you need to add this kind of approach as a feature in Sortfolio. (Posting jobs for Pro account users only)
Otherwise you undermine the objective and credibility of your own product.
joseph
on 21 Feb 10This is totally like preaching one thing and doing the other
mhodges
on 21 Feb 10Jason, Don’t worry about all these naysayers. They just enjoy a good rant. You’re not doing anything wrong. Best of luck with your promotion!
Geof Harries
on 22 Feb 10I agree with Jean-Pierre Bobbaers; these types of “shopping” filters should somehow be incorporated into Sortfolio. Go beyond just location and budget range. There’s far too many results at present.
Rob P Smith
on 23 Feb 10The tagline… your tagline… on the sortfolio website:
“Find the right web designer for your next project.”
Why can’t you look through your own site with the filters you’d like (city, budget, whatever else you need) and find one yourself? Why the need for them to contact you / spam twitter?
You guys can do what you want, of course, and certainly this move will help promote sortfolio – it’s obvious that’s part of it But it seems that the entire process is going against what sortfolio is advertised to do.
I think you’re hurting your own product here. If it can’t serve as a great promotional site for designers to use and get work from, why are they paying to be listed there? Is your service not good enough to find who you need for this job? Do you need to improve the filtering / listing process on sortfolio?
You’re almost admitting the service doesn’t work as intended! Very weird…
This discussion is closed.