[Fireside Chats are round table discussions conducted using Campfire.]
The Chatters
Jacob DeHart (skinnyCorp/Threadless)
Jeffrey Kalmikoff (skinnyCorp/Threadless)
Zach Klein (Connected Ventures/Vimeo)
Jakob Lodwick (Connected Ventures/Vimeo)
(Moderated by Matt from 37signals)
Topics
Our chatters — old friends btw — discuss Threadless, Vimeo, retail stores, video, community, Silicon Valley, YouTube, Yahoo, and a lot more.
| Jacob | so lets get down to business |
A/S/L ? |
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| Zach | 24/M/Brooklyn |
| Jakob | 25/m/NYC |
| Jeffrey | 13/f |
| Jacob | 18/F/Chicago got pics? |
| Matt | So, what are y’all working on these days? |
| Zach | |
(FYI, I’m listening to Die Romantik while chatting—they’re a great local band I saw for the first time last night) |
|
| Jeffrey | All of our work is secret |
| Jakob | Im trying to get on To Catch A Predator but every time I show up it’s an actual 14 year old girl |
| Zach | A site for sharing videos you make with friends and fam. |
| Matt | For our readers, how is Vimeo different than YouTube and other video sharing sites? |
| Jakob | YouTube is for watching TV shows |
Vimeo is for sharing videos you shoot with friends and family |
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| Jacob | I’m currently redoing iparklikeanidiot.com, we have some special secrets coming up and is requiring a complete overhaul |
Vimeo is really awesome, to me YouTube vs Vimeo is like CafePress vs Threadless |
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| Jakob | Thanks Jacob D! |
| Zach | Jacob, how much Threadless work do you do on a day to day basis? |
I envy all the time you have to do personal projects |
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| Jeffrey | so do i |
| Jacob | Actually I’m weaning myself off of Threadless, Jake is going to do most of the major programming. I still pop my head in and suggest/implement features. Most recently I made it so adding an item to your cart is done with "AJAX", that way it keeps you on the product page so you can keep shopping. |
| Matt | what do you find most interesting about each other’s companies? |
| Zach | I love their space! |
| Jakob | I like that SkinnyCorp is totally uncompromising |
and they don’t give a fuck about money |
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yet somehow they make lots of it!!!! how counterintuitive! |
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| Zach | I think they do a good job making lots of money without compromising. |
| Jakob | that’s what I meant to say |
| Jeffrey | i like how you can get a good feel for who CV is by looking at their projects |
like, college humor isn’t just a site which fills a niche and makes money. you can tell that the site would probably exist as a means to have a good time whether they had 10 users or 10 million |
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| Jakob | Zach and I are only working on Vimeo now, not CollegeHumor |
we have 9 full time employees |
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| Zach | Yeah, did you guys hear? We spun off! |
| Jeffrey | i did hear that! |
| Zach | (not entirely, but physically!) |
| Jeffrey | what’s better about your jobs now? |
| Jakob | I can come up with ideas and other people program them |
that’s better because I’m like 1/3 as good at programming as they are |
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| Zach | I work on my dream project. |
| Jacob | What are the plans for vimeo, the site is 100% free right now, will it always be? |
| Zach | Yeah, totally. |
We intend to stay ad-based. At some point, we might offer additional pay-services. |
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| Jakob | we want Vimeo to be like this: |
 |
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| Jakob | wrong image |
whoops |
|
 |
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we want Vimeo to be like this: |
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| Jeffrey | haha |
| Matt | i think you want to ride the tricycle on the mohawk. |
| Jacob | Are you worried about vimeo growing too fast and not having a strong enough revenue stream to support it? |
| Jakob | Jacob, are you talking about bandwidth costs? |
| Jacob | yea |
i am |
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| Jakob |  |
 |
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| Zach | Nah, we’re confident our growth is scalable. |
| Matt | Have you guys intentionally tried to keep Vimeo on the down low so that it can grow slowly? Or do you want max traffic there asap? |
| Zach | At first we did, because were mooching CH servers to host it. |
But Uncle Barry Diller [Head of IAC] gave us the green light to spend some family money to upgrade our setup. |
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| Jakob | if we wanted max traffic, you would see viral vids and TV shows on the home page |
we want lots of people using the site, but using it for what we consider good reasons |
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as long as people are uploading their own videos, we’re happy. |
“If we wanted max traffic, you would see viral vids and TV shows on the home page. We want lots of people using the site, but using it for what we consider good reasons.”
| Jeffrey | you always hear people say "our site will be the (fill in the name) killer". i don’t expect you guys have plans like that. how do you see yourself fitting in the same realm as youtube? |
| Zach | I wish we could be more forthcoming about some of monetization ideas—but video-sharing is even more cut-throat than t-shirt sales! We have to keep mum about some stuff. |
| Jacob | You should have commercials every 5 seconds in the vimeos |
| Matt | Threadless: Tell us about your retail store plans. |
| Jeffrey | our plan is like this |
 |
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ok honestly the plan is sorta a secret |
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but |
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the idea is that we don’t want to do a traditional retail store at all |
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most people think our idea is backwards, but really the store exists to drive traffic to the site |
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we want people in the store to have a similar experience to being on the site: hang out, learn something, buy something |
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the store will have very limited product |
“The store exists to drive traffic to the site. We want people in the store to have a similar experience to being on the site: hang out, learn something, buy something.”
| Jacob | 1. Build online business
2. Open Retail Store
3. ???
4. Profit
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| Jakob | maybe they think the idea is backwards because it’s interesting |
and they are boring |
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and their old, boring brains can’t think in new terms |
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and they only like ideas that are proven moneymakers |
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will it be like a library? |
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| Jeffrey | more like a community center |
| Jakob | that’s SO COOL |
| Zach | I don’t know—this sounds alot like what Starbucks tried to do! Build a million stores to get a million new users to their website. |
| Jakob | can we just take a second and agree how cool that is? |
this is a MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS and their next move is to build A COMMUNITY CENTER?! |
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| Zach | (totally cool) |
| Jakob | HELLLOOOO???? is anyone else thinking anywhere CLOSE to those terms? |
| Matt | agreed. |
| Jacob | [smacks jakob] |
| Jeffrey | haha |
| Matt | and gallery-ish too, right? |
| Jeffrey | it’s gallery-ish in that we’ll have gallery openings for certain shirts |
imagine a cool museum, where under the art, you could buy a print right there |
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and that print will keep your nipples warm |
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| Matt | So both CV and Threadless recently hooked up with outside companies – InterActiveCorp and Insight Venture Partners. How are things different now that there’s someone else involved? |
| Jeffrey | jacob now has a LV messenger bag |
exactly the same for us |
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| Jacob | Life after Insight is great. They pretty much stay out of our business unless we ask for help. We usually have a call with them every week or two and they shoot us emails a couple times a week with ideas on open issues. |
| Jeffrey | i actually like how proactive they are with ideas |
| Jacob | They’re really helping us focus on our goals for the next year which is exactly what we wanted |
| Jeffrey | and i think it’s crazy how they know everything. like if i comment on a blog about threadless, i’ll get an email from one of them being like "great comment…" |
sometimes it’s a little scary! |
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| Zach | It’s great. They stay out of our hair, until we need their help with accounting and legal stuff. |
| Matt | Any sort of backlash to the deals from your respective communities? |
| Jakob | no |
they don’t think in those terms. |
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| Jeffrey | people are mostly just curious and worried it would change things |
but no backlash |
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| Zach | Honestly, things have only been better for our users and fans. |
We’ve been able to start scaling quickly. |
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| Jakob | we don’t really talk about them, so they’re basically invisible to our users. |
our users didn’t care about the business stuff before the deal, either. |
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| Jacob | the only backlash was our community found the profile pics of Jeff and Kobi and made fun of them, otherwise they’re really excited for us |
| Jeffrey | some people accussed kobi and i of being related |
| Zach | On the CollegeHumor side, we hired an ‘original content’ staff to start making our own CH videos |
and on Vimeo, they helped us spin off and stand on our own feet. |
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| Matt | You guys both have thriving fanbases…What’s the secret to building a successful community? Where do other sites fuck it up? |
| Jakob | ok, here’s the secret: |
don’t make the pursuit of money your top priority. work hard and listen to people. |
|
| Jeffrey | how are we defining "successful community"? |
| Matt | having a large group of people who feel passionately about your site/product(s). |
| Jeffrey | because i tend to define a successful (web) community by it’s similarities to a real community, offline |
| Zach | Giving our communities a personality has been important for us. |
| Jakob | I think you have to be part of the community! |
The people who create it have to be part of it! |
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| Jeffrey | yes |
| Jakob | You can’t just build a community and expect people to use it, as if you’re buying a fishbowl |
| Jeffrey | going further than that, you have to have more than presence |
you have to understand that the more successful your community is, the more you’re outnumbered |
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| Jakob | go on |
| Jacob | You definitely need to be part of the community, you also need to take into consideration the fact that you as the owner are still only 1 member out of the thousands and thousands in a community, and the opinions of all the others are just as valid as yours |
and if you listen to your community they’re going to respect you, and if they see the site evolve because of their suggestions they’re going to have that feeling of ownership |
“The more successful your community is, the more you’re outnumbered.”
| Jeffrey | i think also understanding the components of community helps in nurturing growth |
| Jakob | yeah!!! |
I think of these websites as places. Like, Threadless is sort of an online city |
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| Zach | With a variety of public and private spaces. |
| Jakob | in a good city, the mayor walks around the sidewalks and eats at local cafes, talks to people on the street, works in a local office building |
| Jeffrey | only in threadless city, we have a ban on outdoor ads |
| Jakob | yeah, a little fascism is ok |
| Jacob | I like this "you have to understand that the more successful your community is, the more you’re outnumbered" |
Continued in Part 2.
Walker Hamilton
on 27 Feb 07Laugh!
Karl N
on 27 Feb 07Great session! Quite inspiring.
Caleb Elston
on 27 Feb 07It is so crazy you posted a chat with the Threadless guys today since I was watching a video of them giving a presentation at Stanford as you posted this chat. If you like threadless and want to know a bit more about their business and philosophy give it a watch.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6790186192162586479&q=threadless
Karl N
on 27 Feb 07I especially like the quote, [strong]”in a good city, the mayor walks around the sidewalks and eats at local cafes, talks to people on the street, works in a local office building”[/strong]. It’s stuck in my head for further pondering.
fcs_4
on 27 Feb 07Internet. Serious Business.
Anonymous Coward
on 27 Feb 07fcs_4, Threadless did $20,000,000 in revenues in 2006. It’s true: You can have fun and have a great business too. Serious Business doesn’t have to mean taking yourself too seriously.
heri
on 27 Feb 07threadless is so cool! rock on!
brad
on 27 Feb 07Whoa, when I first saw the names in the transcript I thought you had Zeldman and Nielsen (Jeffrey and Jakob) talking together!
Andy
on 27 Feb 07Uhm… this must be the most incoherent fireside chat up till now.
Seth Aldridge
on 27 Feb 07Interesting inside look at how some of the bigger web industries are run. I can’t wait to read the second part!
Alex Bunardzic
on 27 Feb 07The stupidity recorded in the above chat is rampant. Reminds me of the Aqua Teen Hunger Force episode Frat Aliens>
http://video.glath.com/view/ATHF.Frat_Aliens
What remains a mystery is whose father of the above participants owns a dealership?
Jeffrey
on 27 Feb 07Alex, what was recorded was 4 friends who rarely get to see eachother having a normal conversation. What’s it normally like when you hang out with your pals?
Alex Bunardzic
on 27 Feb 07We normally never publish what transpired during our bullshitting sessions.
Jakob
on 27 Feb 07Jeffrey, there are some real gems if you click through to Alex’s site. From his Values page:
Easiest Thing to Do…....................................................Find Fault
Most Disagreeable Person….....................................The Complainer
Meanest Feeling….................................Regret at Another’s Success
Daniel
on 28 Feb 07Wow Jakob! What a find!
All those things sound like exactly what Alex was doing above… hmmm.
It’s a good thing he’s living by those values!
Not Alex
on 28 Feb 07Burn!
random8r
on 28 Feb 07Sorry but isn’t youtube EXACTLY like vimeo, just crappier? Like the video player freezes up if you try to nav it backwards by dragging…. the thing that youtube does that none of the other video sites does in my opinion is properly stream video in a nice way where it doesn’t stuff the player up when you actually get down to use it.
Same as why Apple is good. The basic thing everyone uses every day is good. The keyboard is good, the operating system is good, the basic user interface is just BETTER.
The youtube video player is awesome. Nothing else comes near it. It’s SO much better.
random8
on 28 Feb 07Sorry – I meant isn’t vimeo exactly like youtube only crappier, not the other way around.
Jakob
on 28 Feb 07One difference is there is no “Most Viewed” on Vimeo.
ben
on 28 Feb 07Eventually your community becomes so successful that they try and take your site from you -
http://secondlla.googlepages.com/
When do you guys expect the Threadless army to rise up against their oppressors?
By the way, this is hilarious – 1. Build online business 2. Open Retail Store 3. ??? 4. Profit If you were a public company i would put that on the cover of the annual report.
Reis
on 28 Feb 07I love these chats but I quite often find them confusing as to who’s from what company as I read the comments, i constantly find myself going up to the top to check what name is from what company.
Would be cool if I could hover over the name and it displayed the company or something.
That’s my only niggle, but I’ve got to say that the Mayor comment was spot on and those pictures were hilarious.
Look forward to the second part :)
Karl N
on 28 Feb 07Vimeo seems like a pretty cool site so far. I can’t help but feel like it’s a stretch to say “our site is for personal videos, YouTube is for tv shows” when YouTube is clearly used for personal videos just as often as tv shows.
I could see the site being optimized for community - as Jacob said, like CafePress vs. Threadless - but I’m not sure if it’s going to fly with YouTube’s already huge popularity. What’s going to make people switch? I’m interested if it can be pulled off.
Phil
on 28 Feb 07Of all the lines which became pull quotes, why isn’t this one of them:
“imagine a cool museum, where under the art, you could buy a print right there and that print will keep your nipples warm”
Does Campfire do pull quotes inline? Why not? :-) (because it’s lame?) On the other hand: chat that looks like a magazine in real time… no?
Erin
on 01 Mar 07Someday, when a moderator asks “A/S/L?”, one of the chatters will actually BE female. Someday.
dalas
on 01 Mar 07@random8r
I’m not exactly sure what it is about Vimeo you think is “crappier.” Is it the fact that the Vimeo video encoding looks way better in side by side tests?
Or is it the fact that we don’t put our logo over your video?
I could give a few more examples of what makes us “crappier,” but I’ll just end it by saying that I’ve never seen the video player freeze up in the way you describe, and I have to watch tons of videos on the site as part of my job.
This discussion is closed.