[Fireside Chats are round table discussions conducted using Campfire.]
The Chatters
Jacob DeHart (skinnyCorp/Threadless)
Jeffrey Kalmikoff (skinnyCorp/Threadless)
Zach Klein (Connected Ventures/Vimeo)
Jakob Lodwick (Connected Ventures/Vimeo)
Moderated by Matt from 37signals
Continued from Part 1.
Matt | Lately your companies have been getting a lot of attention from the mainstream media. When they write about you, what do they miss? Are there any aspects to your success that have been underappreciated? |
Jeffrey | ok |
Jeffrey | so |
Jeffrey | i hate being called a college dropout |
Jeffrey | it’s like |
Jeffrey | almost 10 years ago already |
Jacob | me too |
Jakob | I never got a degree |
Jacob | i didn’t drop out, i got kicked out, get it straight |
Jeffrey | and i didn’t drop out, i just decided to learn on my own |
Jeffrey | haha, well i did get kicked out of ASU |
Jeffrey | but then i petitioned my way back in |
Jakob | there are plenty of reasons to leave college… if you have a good reason, just leave! |
“I hate being called a college dropout. It’s like almost 10 years ago already. And I didn’t drop out, I just decided to learn on my own.”
Zach | I think it’s underestimated how much work we put into it. |
Zach | Our success wasn’t random—we work non-stop. |
Jacob | even when I’m sleeping i’m working |
Jeffrey | i think our initial success was lucky, honestly |
Jeffrey | but |
Jacob | whatever jeffrey, you weren’t even there |
Jeffrey | our ability to nurture it to what it is now is a non-stop-work-athon |
Jeffrey | i was defining "our initial success" by when you hired me |
Jakob | he’s trying to make it sound like he’s a workaholic |
Zach | We take time off now – but at first we didn’t – when it was make-it or break-it time. |
Jakob | well, let’s talk about what "work" means. |
Zach | When we moved to NYC, we worked on Sundays. |
Jeffrey | i work on saturdays |
Zach | As simple as talking about Vimeo out loud. |
Jakob | if you’re so obsessed with your site that you think about it in the shower, or it literally compels you to get out of bed in the morning, maybe that counts as work? |
Zach | yeah, totally. |
Jakob | If you work too hard, you lose perspective and you make huge mistakes. |
Jacob | Fact: The best ideas come from the bathroom. |
Jakob | agreed |
Jeffrey | yes |
“I think it’s underestimated how much work we put into it. Our success wasn’t random — we work non-stop.”
Jeffrey | jakob, i haven’t told you yet, but your myspace suicide inspired the hell out of me |
Jakob | ah, thanks |
Jakob | did YOU kill your MySpace account? |
Jeffrey | yes |
Jeffrey | but for other reasons |
Jeffrey | but the inspiration came in the form of buying http://www.socialnetworksuicide.com |
Jakob | I killed mine because I’m sick of hearing everyone complain about MySpace, yet they still use the fucking site! |
Jakob | I hated it, and I wasn’t going to sit there and complain |
Matt | Jeff, you told the Suntimes: "Our ability to be successful is that we don’t have that crazy competitiveness that goes on in Silicon Valley." Do y’all think being outside Silicon Valley has been instrumental to your success? |
Jakob | It’s a different culture out there. I can’t picture Vimeo existing in that environment. |
Jeffrey | no |
Jeffrey | but, having gone there recently |
Jeffrey | it’s out of control |
Jacob | OOC |
Jeffrey | have you guys ever seen valleywag.com? |
Zach | yeah, Gawker site. |
Jeffrey | so scary |
Zach | Why? |
Jeffrey | i love that people ask me that question tho |
Jeffrey | it’s almost like people forget the internet exists outside of the valley |
Matt | what did you see out there that was ooc? |
Jeffrey | ok |
Jeffrey | when i was out there |
Jeffrey | every person i met gave me a business card that said CEO |
Jeffrey | it just seems like everyone is so up in each other’s kool-aid they forget to just stfu and work |
“When i was out [in Silicon Valley,] every person i met gave me a business card that said CEO. It just seems like everyone is so up in each other’s kool-aid they forget to just stfu and work.”
Jakob | I think we should strive to make online communities nurturing in the same way that real-life communities nurture |
Zach | Do you think anonymity will become a thing of the past? |
Jeffrey | i don’t think so |
Jakob | sort of; I think the most rewarding communities are ones where you can develop an identity |
Zach | I wonder if Internet user will eventually become more accountable online than in real-life. |
Jeffrey | your online personality and who you are in real life can always be different |
Zach | True, but we’ll eventually be able to trace every online action to a real name, right? |
Jakob | nah… |
Jacob | You think so? I doubt it |
Jacob | There will always be anonymous trolls |
Jeffrey | i think there will always be that veil |
Matt | Who/what do you think is underrated? |
Jakob | Dan Deacon is underrated |
Jakob | Baltimore is underrated |
Jakob | Seeing yourself as a creator is underrated |
Jakob | Simplicity is underrated |
Jakob | though not among readers of this blog |
Jeffrey | in terms of working, i think discontentness is underrated |
Matt | what do you mean by discontentness? |
Jeffrey | like never being fully happy with your work |
Jacob | discontentment |
Jeffrey | shh |
Jeffrey | i’m a creative |
Jacob | Maybe you should’ve staying in school |
Jeffrey | haha |
Matt | i.e. being a perfectionist implies being perpetually dissatisfied? |
Jeffrey | well, to quote a really bad cheesy hardcore band, ‘satisfaction is the death of desire’ |
“To quote a really bad cheesy hardcore band, ‘satisfaction is the death of desire.’”
Zach | I think Yahoo is underrated. |
Jakob | why? |
Jacob | I agree about Yahoo, for their size they’re doing a pretty great job of innovating, I’m glad they didn’t destroy flickr and delicious as well |
Zach | Did you see their Citizen Journalism initiative? |
Zach | |
Zach | That’s underrated! |
Jakob | Zach, are you more interested in the goals of the project, or in how people are actually using it? |
Zach | I don’t know who is using Yahoo’s service—but I like that Yahoo is thinking about it. |
Jakob | Yahoo’s good intentions are underrated!!!!! |
Zach | I think good intentions are important. |
Zach | For example, Vimeo isn’t massively popular yet, but I think it’s important that we stick to our principles in the meantime. |
Jakob | They’re important, but they have to be met with some sort of results, especially if we’re talking about a public company or other huge institution |
Zach | Yahoo needs to mature some more. |
Matt | "mature"? |
Zach | Meaning, they have a lot of stuff in the pipeline .. several strong projects that could produce good results if they pair together |
Zach | like the citizen journalism initiative and Flickr. |
Zach | They should be working together. |
Matt | Gotcha. |
Jacob | I think yahoo understands the strength of communities, which to me it seems is something that google is lacking |
Jakob | Maybe…Terry Semel shouldn’t be CEO? |
Zach | I think it would be cool if I got a Flickr message from Yahoo telling me that there is going to be a demonstration in Central Park tonight—"Will you shoot pictures for us?" |
Zach | I’d do it! |
Jeffrey | i like that idea |
Jacob | thats a good idea! |
Jakob | Zach, I think you’re saying that your own ideas are underrated |
Zach | Certainly Yahoo must see the same potential. It’s obvious. |
Jacob | have you seen Yahoo Pipes? |
Jacob | its pretty awkward to use but big potential as far as I can tell |
Jacob | when are skinnycorp and connected ventures teaming up? |
Zach | We should start by trading employees for a week. |
Jeffrey | i think that would be really fun |
Zach | Or, how about we build a feature for Threadless, and you design one for Vimeo? |
Jakob | Most likely, we will start a town together around 2010 |
Zach | That’s seems far off, but it isn’t! |
Jacob | there was a town for sale somewhere out west a while back, anyone see that? We should’ve bought that |
Jeffrey | it was like under 3 mil |
Zach | Yeah, in British Columbia. |
Jeffrey | this was in new mexico |
Zach | Oh, that one—it was a mining town. |
Zach | Did you hear what happened to it?! |
Jacob | yea it was like a desert ghost town |
Jacob | no i didnt! |
Zach | Well, some people decided to keep living there after it was sold. |
Zach | A private security firm bought it. |
Zach | And the security firm used it as a training ground for municipal police departments |
Zach | so every week, a new police force would arrive, and they would use the town to train for counter-terrorism techniques |
Jeffrey | that seems less cool than what we’d do with it |
Zach | and the bank, which was an actual working bank, was ‘held up’ every week, and the police would ‘take care of the situation’ |
Jacob | that’s lame, oh well. |
Jeffrey | i wanted to live in the firehouse like ghostbusters |
Zach | that firehouse is around the block from us. |
Jeffrey | i think cv and sc should have like photoshop tennis |
Jeffrey | but with development involved |
Jeffrey | an idea for a site or something submitted by a community |
Jeffrey | zach and jakob – what would you do differently with threadless? |
Zach | Put videos of models wearing the shirts on product pages. |
Jacob | argh! zach! |
Jacob | did you know we have that built in? [but we’ve been] too slow to make the videos? |
Jacob | drives me crazy |
Jakob | open a retail store! |
Zach | Fund shortfilms with actors wearing your shirts, and post those too. |
Jakob | sell prints of the artwork |
Matt | jeffrey and jacob, what would you do differently with vimeo/CV? |
Jeffrey | i’d run way more contests with vimeo |
Jakob | why? |
Jeffrey | i guess to challenge people to create cool stuff |
Jacob | yeah, maybe just work in partnerships with someone, have a contest where the most creative video gets a nice camcorder |
Jacob | and just have a camcorder company donate it for the exposure |
Jeffrey | i like the idea of having advertisers do more than just have ads. like have their presence have purpose, like getting involved in prizing for stuff |
Jacob | I already voiced most of my changes months ago and you guys already implemented them :-p |
Jakob | New version comes out April 2nd |
Jacob | underrated site: zombo.com |
Jacob | gosh i forgot about that |
Jacob | bye! |
Seth
on 01 Mar 07Learning on your own is the best. I wonder what percentage of people in s/w development don’t have degrees….
I left HS @ 15, went to a CC, and was interviewing CS graduates from Berkeley when I was 19. Funny how that works out…......
Nathan
on 01 Mar 07Thanks, SvN for posting these fireside chats. I always enjoy reading them. Especially when it’s about a community based company!
Two things: The comment on learning on your own I think is phenominal, and, in my opinion, really is one of the biggest separators in not just business but in life. Those who learn on their own have the drive, and more likely than not, have the passion. I would also say that I think it’s sad, being a college student and having seen it, that schools seem to be doing less to help students learn on their own and more on giving them ‘flash card courses’.
“sort of; I think the most rewarding communities are ones where you can develop an identity” A great statement. Do you think it’s really possible for a community to be a community without the development of personal identities? Perhaps the most rewarding thing is the inter-connectedness of community?
Greg
on 01 Mar 07Jakob: Baltimore is underrated
Failure.
jrome
on 01 Mar 07Wordie.org is underrated.
http://wordie.org/words/discontentness
Luca
on 02 Mar 07I go to college because I have nothing better to do. Plus there are a lot of chicks.
Jesus A. Domingo
on 02 Mar 07This is by far the most fun campfire session you guys have posted (outside 37sigs that is). The transcript is so raw and candid. And overall, the discussion sounds “young” hehe. Nice!
hafiz
on 04 Mar 07Very nice, thanks for the transcript!
Anyway, just want to point out that the URL mentioned to part one of the chat is probably the wrong one (it goes to admin dir), which asks me to login.
hafiz
on 04 Mar 07Very nice, thanks for the transcript!
Anyway, just want to point out that the URL mentioned to part one of the chat is probably the wrong one (it goes to admin dir), which asks me to login.
Benedikt
on 05 Mar 07I dropped out of college too. Funny thing is that - at least here in Austria - going to college actually means learning on your own. Everytime there is a missing link or a big gap from one course to another (i.g. learning “Modula” in the first semester and then already having to know Java for a course in the 2nd semester …) you’re supposed to learn on your own. It’s some people’s opionion that going to college means exactly that. I think this is true (and partly ok) but too extreme – the courses are not very connected (again, at least over here) and eventually it doesn’t matter if you’re going lectures (often boring, badly held and/or prepared) or just read the book yourself.
sivasubramanian
on 07 Mar 07i want many info from you
sivasubramanian
on 07 Mar 07i want many info from you
sivasubramanian
on 07 Mar 07i want many info from you
This discussion is closed.