Back in July when we first presented the idea of Basecamp Next (called BCX internally) at our company-wide meetup in Chicago, we put together two lists: Goodbye and Hello.
Goodbye was a sample of some of the things that Next wouldn’t have that Classic did have. Hello was a sample of some of the things that Next would have that Classic didn’t have.
“Have” is a relative term. Some stuff on the Goodbye list is completely gone from Next, while other things are just executed differently enough that they don’t resemble the way things worked in Classic.
It’s interesting to look back at the two lists now and see how well our original predictions worked out. There’s some stuff on Goodbye that we ended up keeping and there’s some stuff on Hello that we didn’t do (or did completely differently than we originally anticipated). And then there’s a bunch of stuff not on either list that you’ll ultimately find in Basecamp Next.
We’re only a few short weeks away from launch, and we’re still making calls on what’s in and out and how some key features work. It’s a good reminder that lists are moments in time, they aren’t golden rules.
Bruno Bernardino
on 14 Feb 12Loving those lists, Jason! :)
What’s “People pages” though? If you can tell us, that is :)
James Finley
on 14 Feb 12Is time tracking really going away or is it being upgraded? We just switched from a complex time tracking and task management system to Basecamp. We are using it for tracking hours and all finances.
Jamie Huskisson
on 14 Feb 12Loving this, and can’t wait to see what Basecamp Next is all about.
Scott
on 14 Feb 12Based just on these lists I see the line blurring between Basecamp Next and Highrise. Do you think that’s the case?
Nick
on 14 Feb 12♥ it.
Josh
on 14 Feb 12Wow no more timetracking…
Will be interesting to see how many people can live without that as it’s how they get paid!
JF
on 14 Feb 12James: Time Tracking will not be part of Basecamp Next at launch. I can’t say if it’ll ever return or not, but of course it won’t be removed from Classic. Nothing changes in Classic and Classic isn’t going away.
Brian
on 14 Feb 12Will there be an iPhone view on Basecamp Next? So far, it doesn’t seem to be there. (I’m a beta tester.)
@Brain
on 14 Feb 12Works on my iPhone
Chris McMahon
on 14 Feb 12Well this certainly puts a damper on my excitement as time tracking is a pretty big reason of why we use Basecamp.
Robbie
on 14 Feb 12When I setup my BC account for my small business (i.e., me), the time tracking capabilities were part of a more expensive plan. I didn’t need all of the stuff the extra cost covered (more projects, users, storage), so I ended up using Harvest instead.
I’m glad I went that route, because Harvest is a great company and provides a great service. BC time tracking is modest at best, so it’s not a surprise it’s going away.
It makes more sense for time tracking to be tied to an invoicing service—at least, in my head. I don’t see invoicing ever being part of BC, since it’s a project management app. Makes perfect sense to lose it and let BC focus on the bigger picture.
Michael
on 14 Feb 12Would be interesting to see this presented again blue ocean strategy style. http://sixpathsconsulting.com/images/StrategyCanvas_CirqueDuSileil.jpg
JF
on 14 Feb 12Michael: Love that book and that chart style.
Neil
on 14 Feb 12No file versioning….I liked that feature
Wes
on 14 Feb 12@JF – Can there be a detailed explanation of why time tracking is being removed?
Otherwise, flames are going to start being thrown.
Josh
on 14 Feb 12Ditto on the time tracking for us. I get that 37S can’t keep every feature and choices have to be made… It’s just a shame that we won’t be able to upgrade.
I guess it’s just one less thing for us to be distracted about.
David
on 14 Feb 12Yea, initially I didn’t know how I felt about loosing time tracking in BCX, but in all honestly people use other things to track time. Not to say it isn’t useful. It is nice to have a spot in basecamp that consolidates everything.
I don’t understand why it needed to be removed, but if I had to take a guess it was because it wasn’t being used all that much.
JF
on 14 Feb 12Wes: Because we made the call to focus our efforts on other features that would benefit more people. Time tracking in Classic isn’t something we’ve ever been proud of. It’s not a great implementation.
If we do end up building time tracking into BCX down the road, we’ll want to take the time to do it right. Classic didn’t originally ship with time tracking either.
We’re also considering deeper integration with great time tracking apps that already exist. We’ll see where things go over time.
Eric Anderson
on 14 Feb 12I’ll join the others that are disappointed to see no time tracking. That is integral to how we use Basecamp.
Looks like we will be staying on Basecamp Classic.
John Kranz
on 14 Feb 12No file versioning?... Surprised that is a drop candidate.
Josh
on 14 Feb 12Jason: I think many of us agree that the time-tracking piece of Basecamp didn’t work great. However, I think many of us used third-party programs that leveraged the projects in Basecamp, along with the time-reporting in Basecamp, to have a fantastic solution.
Again, you have to do what you have to do, but I just wanted to make sure you you knew that most of us probably agree the little time-clock in the current version of Basecamp isn’t too useful but the reporting and tool integration rocked.
JF
on 14 Feb 12John: File versioning in Classic is barely used. In Next you can comment on files so you can add new versions to the thread so you keep them all together.
JF
on 14 Feb 12I think many of us agree that the time-tracking piece of Basecamp didn’t work great. However, I think many of us used third-party programs that leveraged the projects in Basecamp, along with the time-reporting in Basecamp, to have a fantastic solution.
Case in point. It wasn’t good and you had to mash up a few tools to get it done right. That’s a sign that we didn’t do a great job and it wasn’t simple. So we didn’t want to bring that thinking to BCX. If we ever bring it to BCX we’ll do it different and do it right. Or, we’ll offer deep integration with some of the great time tracking tools that already exist out there.
Chris
on 14 Feb 12It is a massive bummer that BCX will not have time tracking. I have been trying to get my company to switch to BC, and now it just won’t happen. Which is a real bummer, because i would do just about anything to get out from under workamajig and its flash app.
It seems to me that telling users they have to use the classic version if you want timers is a copout. How do you track hours on a project without timers? Abandoning the whole timer concept is just not going to happen in this agency. And just accepting the old version of your service to use timers is really just not good enough. Big time bummer dudes.
I would also like an explanation of why time tracking is being removed.
Arif Amirani
on 14 Feb 12This is really exciting stuff! Looking forward to #bcx :)
Stephen Yadzinski
on 14 Feb 12Please keep some form of time tracking. We rely on it as part of our billing process.
Your time tracking does work well for us. It is simple to use, easy to read, and all we need.
JF
on 14 Feb 12It seems to me that telling users they have to use the classic version if you want timers is a copout.
It’s not a copout, it’s a conscious honest decision. We chose not to build time tracking into Next because we decided other features were more important. We stand by that decision. Over time we’ll consider a variety of improvements to Next – one of those could be time tracking. As I mentioned above, Classic didn’t launch with time tracking either. It was added down the road.
Chris
on 14 Feb 12Thank you for the explanation. I guess ill just leave it at being a massive bummer and will continue to watch BCX in the hopes of time tracking being added.
richallum
on 14 Feb 12Just to put an opposite view, we looked at time tracking in BC when we started 5 years ago and didn’t think it was very good so we use Harvest which is. The new files function with comments and new ‘versions’ in the stream sounds good.
Stephen Yadzinski
on 14 Feb 12Just chatting with one of our developers in Campfire (using briquette) and thought this was an interesting comment.
As the business owner, I agree …
Parand Darugar
on 14 Feb 12I’m particularly interested in the use cases for time tracking with basecamp next; perhaps those of us interested can chat and think through some solutions? I’m parand at xpenser com, drop me a line if interested.
GeeIWonder
on 14 Feb 12I’ll have to remember than one for dinner tonight, and future birthdays/audits/etc.
John
on 14 Feb 12I’m very disappointed to see time tracking going away in BCX. It works fine for us in the current Basecamp. I work on numerous projects concurrently with sometimes hundreds of todo items. It’s quite helpful to be able to add the time in tiny fragments right where I’m working on the item.
Aditya Rustgi
on 14 Feb 12The way the folks at 37signals are executing on the the process of release of basecamp next is a classic lesson on how to introduce new products! Fantastic execution.
Anon
on 14 Feb 12I have a bad feeling about this.
Oz
on 14 Feb 12I’ve had my department using Basecamp for about 3 years now.
IT was trying to push us into some more eloborate programs that had built in Gantt charts and better time tracking.
Removing Time Tracking AND Milestones is a death sentence on my ability to justify to IT not use the tool they want. Here we were hoping Basecamp Next would step it up in terms of built in Gantt charts and more sophisticated Time Tracking.
Frankly, this teaser post is creating more angst than comfort. Sticking with old BC is doable for now, but IT wants us on more sophisticated tool. What I had hoped Next would be. But Next is feeling more and more like a gimmick, sure it will interact differently, but is there any more power and guts to what it can do? :/
Andrew
on 14 Feb 12Will it be possible to convert extant writeboards to “post-writeboard-thing”?
Danny Wen
on 14 Feb 12As a long-time Basecamp/Highrise time tracking add-on provider, we’d love to work with you guys to make time tracking a great experience with BCX. Please don’t hesitate to reach out if you guys want to dive deeper.
JF
on 14 Feb 12@OZ “Milestones” are gone, but the concept is not. Just a new name and a different execution. And you’re going to love the new Calendar – huge improvement over the current calendar.
Adam
on 14 Feb 12I think more interesting than what is on these lists, is how you decided what would be on these lists.
Is the goodbye list based on low usage metrics and/or customer support issues? Is the hello list based on customer feedback and/or informed hunches? Why did things fall off either list?
Also, why not evolve original into next instead two versions? Has that been addressed before?
JF
on 14 Feb 12@Adam: Re: “why not evolve” see this post from a few days ago.
JF
on 14 Feb 12Is the goodbye list based on low usage metrics and/or customer support issues? Is the hello list based on customer feedback and/or informed hunches? Why did things fall off either list?
A combination of a variety of inputs. We’ll likely do a series of in-depth workshops around the building of BCX down the road.
Paul Saunders
on 14 Feb 12I echo exactly what Josh said. Lack of timetracking or similar is a deal breaker for me. I’m automatically now sticking with Classic, but am now worried that if Classic isn’t going to pushed forward then I need to look for something else going forward. Is booking time in order to understand how long stuff takes and/or bill customers for that time really something that Basecamp Next users want or need? I really hope there is something that can be done or said to make you change your mind on this….??
Jeffrey R.
on 14 Feb 12We use Writeboards (100+ easy) and Textile a ton (Messages, To-dos, and Overviews/Dashboards). I always wished that Writeboards were searchable. I hope the new replacements are as useful.
JF
on 14 Feb 12@Jeffrey R: Writeboards are now called Text Documents and they’ve been simplified and built right in so they’re searchable!
JF
on 14 Feb 12@Danny Wen: We’d love to chat. Drop me an email at jason@37signals… when you have a chance. Thanks.
Joe
on 14 Feb 12Lists (or any other documentation) are conversations frozen in time.
It goes well with your idea that inspiration is instantly perishable.
Since your documentation was put in the fridge so to speak, it lost some of its freshness, but also grew some interesting things that you didn’t quite expect.
Thanks for sharing.
CH
on 14 Feb 12@37signals
“Email only access” is interesting to add, given that you’ve stated numerous time before that email alone is your #1 competitor against why someone would purchase Basecamp at all.
Scott
on 14 Feb 12@JF @Danny For the record, Harvest is awesome so I’d love to see integration there.
Josh
on 14 Feb 12@Paul Sanders
Yeah, Paul….I agree. I just pushed over 26 hours of billable time across 7 projects and 4 customers from TrackRecord, where our accountant can pick it up in Basecamp. I just don’t see how it would ever work better (i.e. a third-party app talking to an API in Basecamp where the data is attached to projects). But maybe 37S will work their magic and come up with something that turns my 26 hours into 36 hours.
I don’t have a problem sticking with Classic, though. It will meet my needs for a couple of years …and if there’s not a solution by then, I’m sure someone will have filled the void.
KB
on 14 Feb 12Will it cost me any more than it does now?
Jens
on 14 Feb 12It sounds weird to me to skip time tracking from a projekt managment tool. Time tracking is like backup. Nobody likes it. But is essential for a business. Like backup for a server. I upgraded my basecamp from basic to plus just to get time tracking.
Textile is also a great feature. It works much better for me than your rich text editor. Especially when you copy an paste something in the editor it keeps the formatting, i almost never want. This feels like Microsoft Word that autocorrect things I don’t want and don’t understand.
Hopefully you replace the FTP Hosting, with a Dropbox integration or a API that works for files. So i can build a dropbox integration for my own…
It feels also a bit frustrating that on the hello list, except of speed there is now feature I miss at the moment.
Hopefully the new basecamp works better than it sounds on these lists.
Bowo
on 14 Feb 12Actually, all the changes makes me scarry. All the why questions come to my mind? And I hate to change my habits using the software.
When google introducing gmail, new users still feel the email environment. I just hope that you provide long transitioning program. and ‘switch to new’ and ‘swith to old” menu.
JF
on 14 Feb 12@Bowo No one is being forced to switch to anything. You can continue to use Classic as long as you want. They are separate products on their own paths.
Matt Carey
on 14 Feb 12As I mentioned above, Classic didn’t launch with time tracking either. It was added down the road.
Yes, but I remember (as a long time BC user) lots of clammer for time tracking before you added it!
I don’t have a problem with existing functionality being reworked/renamed/reimagined. But removed is a big issue.
My company has years of time data stored in Basecamp. If we were to migrate to Next, what happens to that? Does it all go, as there is no functionality to migrate it to?
With the advanced metrics you are employing on your apps I guess you must have a % of users who record time. But I can’t believe it is a minority…
Josh Martin
on 14 Feb 12I am very excited about this. I don’t think I understand what some of the items are, but I am excited to see how they work. I will reserve any and all judgement until BCX is available to everyone.
As for time tracking www.getharvest.com is amazing! We tried base camp time tracking and it failed and didn’t give us the reports and data we needed. If you are serious and NEED good time tracking and data reports you should be using something else.
I suggest you try Harvest as they are continually improving their software and they care about time, that is their focus. Go with a company that can work together with BCX and make it great.
JF
on 14 Feb 12@Matt: Nothing happens to your data. Anything moved into Next is copied, not migrated. So everything that was in Classic remains in Classic, same as before.
Also, time tracking wasn’t removed from BCX. It wasn’t added. BCX is an all-new product so it has a different feature set at the beginning than Classic does today. Classic lives on its own, completely separate from Next. You can use just Classic, Classic and Next, or only Next. Entirely up to you.
GeeIWonder
on 14 Feb 12I reckon you’d all best get used to answering this question. Time would probably be well spent on polishing it up a bit. (‘own paths’ just raises more questions)
JF
on 14 Feb 12I am very excited about this. I don’t think I understand what some of the items are, but I am excited to see how they work. I will reserve any and all judgement until BCX is available to everyone.
Thanks Josh. We know lists like this can be interpreted in many ways. Thanks for your interest in giving it a try and seeing how everything works together before passing judgement. If you want to post your subdomain here, I’ll invite you to the beta.
We agree that Harvest is amazing for time tracking.
JF
on 14 Feb 12@GeeIWonder: It’s polished and ready to go once we launch the actual product.
Matt Carey
on 14 Feb 12You can use just Classic, Classic and Next, or only Next
Thanks Jason, that is interesting. I could have sworn I read that Next was going to be an account level migration. But I guess I will wait a bit longer for the full details of how that will work!
JF
on 14 Feb 12@Matt, more details at the end of this post.
Andrew
on 15 Feb 12@Oz IT works for you, not the other way around!
Matthew Donovan
on 15 Feb 12@Everyone: FWIW…I have been a Basecamp user for over 6 years (on my curent account) and 7 years total (from another account, since closed).
I also have been beta testing Basecamp Next for the last week (or more).
My honest evaluation: it’s simply better than Basecamp Classic in doing the WORK of projects. 1) The implementation of Discussions is way better the Classic’s Messages 2) The To-Do lists have all of the similar elements, but it’s just done better, cleaner 3) Changing to Text files (instead of segregated Writeboards) and having that content searchable is a big improvement 4) The UI move to “sheets” is a push towards simplicity that (I think) all will start to admire and emulate. Perhaps it’s not the cliched “paradigm shift”...but it’s close.
I get that folks are concerned about time tracking, but Basecamp Next isn’t replacing what you have been using for the last few years. You’re not being forced (like so many other services) to just “deal with it”. And, whether 37S builds it later or integrates with one of the time tracking services, I’m confident that it’ll be much better.
Sorry, Jason, I realize that this is your job to respond to your customers, so I don’t mean to butt-in. Just thought it might be good to hear from a customer that has used both.
Fred Jones
on 15 Feb 12@JF
Reading through these comments, it seems your frustration level with the whole time-tracking question continues to rise (which is fair). As someone who shares that issue, I think I can summarize many of the feelings…
We love you guys. We love what you do. We were excited to use the new, shiny Basecamp Next. When we read time-tracking wasn’t part of what we were so excited about, we were surprised because time-tracking in Basecamp is core to what many of us do.
So a lot of us will stick with the old version - and maybe play around with the new version to see what its about - but it won’t be part of our workflow.
We feel left behind and a little sad… but that’s life. It’s nothing personal against you or anyone else at 37 Signals. We just wish it was different.
email
on 15 Feb 12You can use just Classic, Classic and Next, or only Next.
Thanks JF, this is a clarification that I need.
Josh Martin
on 15 Feb 12Jason
That would be great! I am just excited to see all the unique features. Sub-domain adedesign.basecamphq.com
Cory
on 15 Feb 12Fred summed it up perfectly. Although we looked forward to Next, we’ll be stuck with Classic until we find a third party tracking app (bleh), or it becomes a core feature as it has been.
Lysonne
on 15 Feb 12Can you define “people clusterfuck” Maybe I never had enough collaborators to encounter that before.
Ed
on 15 Feb 12I’m a true believer in what you all are doing with BCX. People hate changes to things they love and change can be disruptive. But, so is innovation and we all love that. So, fuck the naysayers.
That said, I’m really disaapointed that I can’t convert because of the time tracking issue, but I know you will find a solution based on your customer and conversion and attrition rates.
Bradley
on 15 Feb 12Hi Jason,
I will also wait to pass judgment until I have tried BCX.
Memphis Mafia
mortarbar.basecamphq.com :)
Richallum
on 15 Feb 12Really looking forward to seeing how Clasic and Next can work together. I’m hoping we can switch to Next as features look interesting but having Classic available for a while will help the transition. We have 500+ projects and an overnight switch fit some clients might not work !
Milan
on 15 Feb 12I think everyone’s’ capability to have meaningful discussion here is limited by essentially not having a clue what the important items in the new list really represent. Things that will have the most substantial impact on user experience are still kept a secret. How should I perceive your reasoning of the things I haven’t seen yet?
So far you are scaring the hell out the seasoned users and confusing nerds. And what good does it make to keep telling over and over that you can stay with classic for as long as you please? Classic is not the ultimate product that has reached its nirvana. People are eager for change – they are like puppies waiting for anything you’ll throw at them.
Lets have a little dignity here, if you are unable for the moment to reveal information in a package that will be understandable, think from a user perspective that has not seen the beta before posting.
Simon
on 15 Feb 12It would be great if you could give me an invite to https://johnnyvodka.basecamphq.com/
Cheers :)
Deltaplan
on 15 Feb 12As an “old” Basecamp user, here are a few of my thoughts about those “gone” features :
Time tracking : seems nice at first, but I’ve never ever managed to get my employees actually use it. They have always feared it could be used against them, for example by counting the number of hours actually logged on Basecamp each week, for each one of them, and firing the ones that appear to work less than the others…
Milestones : same problem as with time tracking, people are afraid of it… They fear it will be used to enforce individual responsibilities, and then take individual sanctions…
Campfire : same problem again, people are afraid that what they’ve said some day months or years ago could be used against them. Each time they have to communicate in a way that leaves permanent history, they tend to keep their remarks for themselves as much as they can. For example when assigning a TODO to a coworker, if we are simply talking about it he will gladly ask questions about it. But if he has to communicate in a written way, he may fear that – for example – asking questions about a TODO could be considered later as a sign of a lack of competencies, if the casual conversation they had with a coworker were to be read later by a manager for example.
So all of these led me to understand a kind of trend, people will gladly use Basecamp as long as it is a “friendly” way to work as a team. But they fear it could be used as an individual work tracking tool.
Blair
on 15 Feb 12I think totally re-imagining a product is going to get a way better results than constantly tweaking a product over time. BCX vs Classic for example.
Without getting specific, everyone that is worried about features being in or out, maybe another way to view the BCX differences is a prompt to rethink how you do your work. It’s not necessarily a test of the product, it’s a test of your ability to work differently (and hopefully better).
Paul
on 15 Feb 12I would really appreciate a stream similar to Google Wave. We don’t use tasks and milestones in our team and just need to effectively collaborate (files, messages etc.)
Mart
on 15 Feb 12I’d like to add to the comments that time tracking absolutely does need to be there – integrated or full integration with a 3rd party (but deep intergration – not some of the rather less than effective tie-ups that are advertised as add-ons such as bug trackers).
We are a long time (since 2006! Max user) but also must make sure we don’t let inertia rule our thinking too.
I like that i have time tracking linked to the projects and ad hoc tasks (which are always the tricky ones to track) that i am talking up and then building and its all in the one place.
You have provided a solution and haven’t cut us off by letting us use both app’s at the same time, so I am going to trust that you will also do this justice when it comes to getting it working in BCX too.
It certainly sounds like this feature is well used judging by the comments here.
Rich
on 15 Feb 12Despite my excitement over some of the features I’d been trying to champion on the Answers forum appearing on the “Hello” list (audit trail, groups), I’d rather just wait and evaluate Basecamp Next as a whole product. It just doesn’t seem right to focus on the inclusion or absence of a feature when an entire concept has been reworked.
Thomas Witt
on 15 Feb 12Time Tracking is an absolutely crucial feature for us – we definitely won’t migrate away from Basecamp classic then, unfortunately. Seems we’re not alone with that. This was obviously not a very clever decision. I don’t need Streams, Stickies and People Tracking, whatever this is.
Jon
on 15 Feb 12Guys We have the software in our bcToolkit that enables your customers to use your time tracking functionality and turn it into real actionable MI. Can someone contact us please. Jon
Robert
on 15 Feb 12This looks really exciting. Will be interested to see how the client/firm split works out.
David
on 15 Feb 12There are so many important pieces missing on your list:
Mobile. Mobile. Mobile. Mobile.
And please don’t just come up with a mobile web version. I hope you will deliver a brilliant execution for mobile & tablets, otherwise there is just too much competition => choice we have.
Phil Cave
on 15 Feb 12We’re a small web design agency, new to BC and actually one of our biggest problems is the To-Do lists and the fact that they are not integrated with the calendar.
Similarly a step-by-step project viewer with related tasks/ to-do’s, milestones (or whatever they will be called – to us that would be deliverables to the client) in one sort of calendar/ time-line kind of view would be perfect.
Interested to read above that the Next will have much improved Calendars – is there a definitive list of features available or coming soon?
Josh Martin
on 15 Feb 12Hopefully reading all of these comments people have realized that there are other options for time tracking that provide more in depth features.
I cannot wait to see all of the great features BCX has. Hopefully i can get into the beta test, if not I am still excited for the public launch.
Fred Jones
on 15 Feb 12Glad to hear it.
What we need is our remote employees to be able to associate their time with existing client projects. Projects get added and removed every week, so we don’t want to have to be entering in project names and people in both our project management and time system and trying to keep it all in sync. We don’t want people to have to log into a website to enter time (as we think they will forget to do it) so we want to be able to use an app to track the time. We then need our corporate office to be able to print a report of time, by person, by project, by client.
What tool would you suggest?
Justin Reese
on 15 Feb 12@JF: At the risk of sounding like a 37s apologist, I like the approach you’re taking with the transition from Classic to Next. It’s what Apple should have done with Final Cut Pro X: show their vision of the future, but keep and support the current standard as an admission that the future isn’t here yet.
By completely replacing FCP7 with FCPX, Apple asked the customer to shoulder the risk of the “future of video editing” gamble. Had they kept FCP7 around in fully-supported form, they would have been saying “look, FCPX is where we think the industry should move, but it’s going to take some time for professional workflows to congeal around it. Please use it and build tools on it, but as it’s a radical redefinition, we’ll shoulder the cost of this transition by supporting both for a while.” Instead, they have lots of us wondering if Apple is a safe long-term bet anymore, and looking toward Adobe and Avid for the future… something I couldn’t have imagined saying a few years ago.
It can’t be small cost to 37s to support both Classic and Next for the indefinite future, but it is the right way to handle a sea change. Thanks!
Daniel Chohfi
on 15 Feb 12Just launch… soon!
Tobias Dahlberg
on 15 Feb 12Hello.
In the spirit of the great book The Lean Startup (Eric Ries) I think you guys at 37 signals should pick up on this very clear feedback and just realize that time tracking will be a MUST if you want Next to be a success. For me, I probably won’t bother trying the new version as time tracking is crucial to everyone (I woulld argue) who is actually doing business with Basecamp in the creative industries.
Classic is quite a nice product but it lacks many crucial features and I would rather have liked to see you improve that to be honest. But kudos to you for wanting to improve it anyway, and best of luck with the launch!
pit
on 15 Feb 12It would be great if you could give me an invite to reshmind.basecamphq.com
tnx
Anonymous Coward
on 15 Feb 12Time tracking is an essential daily part of our work flow, bummed it’s not receiving the “next” treatment….
Gregor McKelvie
on 16 Feb 12Will there be a new and separate API then for Next?
Looking forward to seeing less of the people clusterfuck :)
Anthony Barone
on 16 Feb 12Hey Jason,
A software company I used for 8 years recently changed their entire product design. No migration path. Simply stop using the old one and start using the new one. You could convert data but that was up to you. The old product would be supported but no major investments in it moving forward. It was time.
Since I was going to incur switching costs, I looked at other options. I didn’t end up going with the vendor who I was generally happy with. It will be interesting to learn how the role of switching costs play into the BCX release. I believe the 37signals brand, service and performance will do well. Having all these pieces in place is a difficult problem to resolve.
Perhaps 37signals is not worried about this and are targeting a new group of customers with BCX. I hope you can provide some insight into this down the road. BTW, I’m a customer and fan.
Oz
on 16 Feb 12@JF
As said above by another, I hope you and your team will listen to the feedback above.
You listed out 16 features on the goodbye list, but only one your team identified as useless is driving considerable feedback, TIME TRACKING.
So hope you are your team reconsider pulling Time Tracking from BCX, give us the same basic time keeping we have in classic at launch. Then work to enhance BCX Time Tracking.
We are some loyal users of your product and frankly I feel a bit alienated to be told the answer to you not including Time Tracking, is you can stay with Classic.
Aren’t you the same one in an earlier blog post that admitted with classic it had become stale with no real noteworthy enhancements (I know not your words, but really that is what happened). So why would we want to stay with classic, oh that’s right because the shiny new toy is lacking a key feature. I am loyal and sad. In marketing there is a key term of Net Promoter, I was a huge promoter of Basecamp, now I’m just wondering what to think, sigh.
Josh
on 16 Feb 12If you aren’t launching with time tracking you need to make it extremely clear to people that this isn’t an improved version of the Basecamp they are used to but an entirely new product and it doesn’t include the following features you have built your daily work flow around.
Especially since you mentioned once they have upgraded to Next they cannot go back to classic!
Mike
on 16 Feb 12I agree with Josh. I think without time tracking you need to call this new product something other than “Basecamp” unless you call it “Basecamp Lite”
We rely heavily on time tracking and without it we wouldn’t even consider the product.
Ruud Seydel
on 16 Feb 12Hope it will the next step. Always loved the messaging part of the current Basecamp. Just came across Wunderkit.com. Great philosophy over there! I like the way they see individuals as working on more project from different companies and still having a great overview. I believe Basecamp Next will be the next best thing but for now I’m a bit in a split. Unfortunately I didn’t receive a beta invitation. Fingers crossed.
Sloan
on 16 Feb 12Let me chime in on the Time Tracking vein, I only recently signed our company up for Basecamp because it provided the To Do list with Time Tracking. I agree it is implemented poorly, but having to use two or three separate applications to keep track of project status, hours and billing is even worse.
dmr
on 16 Feb 12Sounds like a nice list of tradeoffs; I like the emphasis of openness and removal of permissions; and ‘the stream’ instead of the dashboard puts a focus on recent activity instead of database rows. I actually mocked a similar idea called a ‘project stream’ for internal project management at work and people really liked it.
Imagine if Adobe did this with the next version of Photoshop. Cutting bloated code and unnecessary features (3d) and emphasizing stuff that needs attention (simpler UI, speed, fewer preferences and clicks) — instead they add more features, more UI, more bloat and more $ to the price tag.
Sounds like a thoughtful list of curated features. Well done, per usual.
David
on 16 Feb 12My company relies on time tracking for internal use only, so the current time tracking implementation actually meets our needs well. I’m certainly not excited about the prospect of paying a third party provider for a feature that I’ve grown to expect is a part of Basecamp.
Paul Helmick
on 16 Feb 12Love the new improvements. Have only used time tracking casually – would really prefer to pick a 3rd party tool that integrates with BCX. Starting a few new projects next month.
Question: What are 2-3 of the most likely 3rd party apps that are ‘likely’ to work and play well with BCX?
Paul Helmick
on 16 Feb 12Love the new improvements. Have only used time tracking casually – would really prefer to pick a 3rd party tool that integrates with BCX. Starting a few new projects next month.
Question: What are 2-3 of the most likely 3rd party apps that are ‘likely’ to work and play well with BCX?
Tim
on 16 Feb 12@Paul the point is BCX won’t have time tracking at all, so it doesn’t matter which 3rd party app you choose!
David
on 17 Feb 12When you think about it they’ve effectively wiped out a part of their ecosystem with all those time tracking apps on their 3rd party apps page. At least they gave the developers fair warning about it though…3 weeks…
Mike
on 17 Feb 12@JF Very excited about BCX and seeing what it’s like as we have been using Classic for a few years (and at various shops).
If you’re inviting people to the Beta still (as you mentioned above), we’d love to take a look. (cohesivecreativecode.basecamphq.com)
Mike
on 17 Feb 12@JF Very excited about BCX and seeing what it’s like as we have been using Classic for a few years (and at various shops).
If you’re inviting people to the Beta still (as you mentioned above), we’d love to take a look.
URL cohesivecreativecode.basecamphq.com
Mike
on 17 Feb 12@JF: Very excited about BCX and seeing what it’s like as we have been using Classic for a few years (and at various shops).
If you’re inviting people to the Beta still (as you mentioned above), we’d love to take a look.
URL cohesivecreativecode.basecamphq.com
Mike
on 17 Feb 12@JF: Very excited about BCX and seeing what it’s like as we have been using Classic for a few years (and at various shops).
If you’re inviting people to the Beta still (as you mentioned above), we’d love to take a look.
URL cohesivecreativecode.basecamphq.com
Mark Walker
on 17 Feb 12Chalk us up as another existing client who won’t be able to use the new UI as we use time tracking for all our projects and it is a major part of our love for Basecamp.
No it sure isn’t a pretty implementation but the simple fact is it works. Having to consider a different application for time tracking is an unattractive proposition.
We guess your stats tell you that time tracking is not heavily used but to some of us it is one of the main reasons we use your product.
I assume that classic will remain for a period of time before being phased out but can you give us an estimate how long this may be?
Thanks
JF
on 17 Feb 12I assume that classic will remain for a period of time before being phased out but can you give us an estimate how long this may be?
There are no plans to phase Classic out. Classic and Next will live side by side.
Mike
on 18 Feb 12I need to share my significant concern milestones are going away. As a commercial software shop, we leverage milestones heavily as a key attribute in our project management efforts. Milestones for us are cross functional readiness check points in our projects. While I am happy to see some of the new capabilities in BCX, and admittedly I haven’t seen how Calendar may/may not work for our needs in BCX, we find To Do Lists to be great for sub tasks, but the culmination of multiple To Do Lists, and the ability to align them to a single point in our projects (a Milestone) is critical. So much so, if these disappear, I will be forced to find an alternative method for our project efforts. This will mean leaving 37signals as a customer. As an “unlimited” project, long term customer of 37signals, I would ask you to please be mindful of these changes.
I can appreciate the need to mature your product and perhaps the way my company uses it is no longer your focus, but I suspect that to not be the case. Don’t over simplify the user experience by deprecating critical functionality.
Nervously waiting to see what happens next.
JF
on 18 Feb 12Mike: “Milestones” are going away, but being replaced with “Dates” that appear on a calendar and in list view.
Bryan
on 19 Feb 12All of the excitement about BCX has completely disappeared.
I echo the sentiments of the many users that rely on time tracking and aren’t happy about being ignored.
Basecamp’s own website claims that it’s been used to “track 57 million hours of work”. So, it’s obviously used quite a bit.
Like many that have posted here, I simply cannot accept the decision or the justification.
It’s weak to say that you chose to eliminate critical functionality because it wasn’t good enough or important enough.
It makes a lot more sense to track time in a system designed to manage projects than to purchase and/or maintain some complimentary piece.
The fact that you will continue to maintain Classic is appreciated, but we want a system that gets better. We don’t want something stuck in neutral.
You may have just lost a Suite customer.
Joseph Denne
on 21 Feb 12Adding my voice to the list of clients who rely on time tracking in Basecamp. We use it for financial management across the business and will not be able to use the new UI until it has this functionality in place.
Very disappointing.
noise figure
on 21 Feb 12Thanks for this good post….
Jonny
on 21 Feb 12Does goodbye to ‘client/firm split’ mean there will be no more ‘private’ messages, todos, etc?
kevin
on 21 Feb 12I’m anxious to see the new version, however, there are a number of troubling items on the goodbye list – milestones, private items, and time tracking.
We use Basecamp with internal team members, clients, consultants, our clients vendors, and more. With this many people all accessing our projects to get information that is specific to them, being able to identify critical dates as milestones and assign them to a company or individual really helps to keep things in order. And with so many people and companies accessing projects, privacy is a must. There are items we just don’t want outside parties to see before we’re ready. For example, my design team (who are in four different locations) share project design progress images privately before we’re ready to show them to a client. We use the privacy features to do that. When we’re ready, we remove the privacy and share with the larger team. Privacy is a vital part of how we use Basecamp. And although I would agree that time tracking has never been a robust feature, it’s one that we’ve come to rely on as we’ve grown. We think of Basecamp as the single best place to store project information. Tracking how much time we’re spending on tasks is an important part of that. We don’t want one app for note taking, one for time tracking, one for calendar, one for to-do lists, etc. The best part of Basecamp how it can be many of those all in one place. This streamlines our process, and makes it so much easier to bring new people on board. Not having time tracking is likely to mean we have to pay an additional monthly fee for a service we were already getting. I hope this doesn’t mean that that the new version is not as good a value as the current one. I hope you reconsider on the time tracking, or lower your prices to offset diminished functionality. We like the current version and were hoping to love the new one. We’ll see. Thanks,
This discussion is closed.