[Fireside Chats are round table discussions conducted using Campfire.]

The Chatters
Dave Brasgalla (Icon Factory)
Brian Brasher (Firewheel Design)
Jon Hicks (Hicks Design)
Corey Marion (Icon Factory)
Michael Schmidt (Cuban Council)
Josh Williams (Firewheel Design)
(Moderated by Matt and Jason from 37signals)

Matt
PROCESS: What is your basic method or workflow that you go through to come up with an icon? Tools, approach, etc.
Josh
Years ago, I did most of my icon work in Freehand, copying and pasting the final pieces into Photoshop. I moved to Illustrator about 3 years ago, and have never looked back. I still do some polish work in Photoshop occasionally, but it’s amazing what you can get done in Illustrator completely (secret: Pixel Preview Mode).
Corey
Brainstorm, sketch
Michael
We still do mostly pixel icons, so Photoshop is where it’s at for us – pixel by pixel
Jon
Sketches > Illustrator > Iconbuilder in Photoshop
Brian
All Illustrator. Often, but not always, after sketching.
Corey
yes, we were mostly a Freehand shop as well
Dave
More and more these days, I find myself drawing in a sketchbook.
“More and more these days, I find myself drawing in a sketchbook.”
Josh
I don’t do as much sketching as I used to. Sadly. Unfortunately, there are only so many ways to render "Email"
Brian
Email: a man with an E on his chest.
Brian
And I still use … drumroll … ResEdit!
Jason
ResEdit!!!!!!!!
Josh
Hooray for ResEdit!
Dave
Freehand was wonderful to draw in, but illustrator… not so much
Dave
and that’s been a block for me.
Corey
can’t beat quick pencil sketches to quicky extract ideas form the brain
Jon
I still love using Fireworks, as its pixel/vector tools are lovely
Jason
Reseditsplash
Josh
Jon: have you ever used Illustrator at all?
Jon
Oh yes
Jon
all the time now
Josh
I nearly got fired from my first job when I used ResEdit to change the Trash Can icon in OS 7.
Josh
I deleted a bunch of system resource stuff on accident.
Brian
I hacked a Mac so bad at my former place of employment it was gruesome.
Dave
Plus, I was working almost entirely in Photoshop the past few years
Jon
What do people use to create the final icon?
Dave
Photoshop and Illustrator
Dave
With all this resolution-independent business, it makes sense to hedge your bets.
Corey
Shameless Plug > IconBuilder
Jon
No shame, Iconbuilder is superb
Jon
Illustrator for everything these days
Michael
Can’t stand illustrator – feels extremely clunky. IconBuilder is terrific, though.
Josh
Since most of our work is for the web now, we export most of our artwork straight from Illustrator with Save For Web
Corey
Illustrator > Photoshop > Iconbuilder
Brian
Dave is correct, AI could benefit greatly from some of FreeHand’s drawing capability, but for creating pixel-precise icons AI is suh-weet.
Josh
Iconbuilder is awesome
Dave
My only problem is 5 years worth of Freehand vector files. :-(
Jon
I have an illustrator file set up to match the Iconbuilder expanded grid, thats how it all gets done
Jon
Scale, then tweak
Jon
usually, a LOT of tweaking
Corey
Pretty serious tweaking
Jon
then for 16px, redrawn
Corey
yep
Jon
I usually do 16px as pixel art almost
Dave
I will say this: I miss the old 32×32 pixel-click days.
Dave
.-D
Matt
Some nitty gritty questions: Do you work zoomed in or zoomed out? When scaling and making several versions of the same icon (64×64, 32×32, 16×16) do you scale down the original and then tweak or start mostly from scratch each time?
Brian
Zoomed in to work, view at 100% periodically (the virtual taking a step back from the canvas).
Josh
I just started using the Mac OS’s (10.4.8+) "zoom" feature a lot—it’s faster than using the Zoom tool in Illustrator at times.
Josh
You can set it up under Universal Access to zoom to say 3x with an easy keystroke
Matt
ah, interesting about the zoom feature
Jon
me too Josh
Jon
very useful
Jon
zoom, with smoothing turned off, of course!
Josh
Jon: of course
Corey
two windows in Illustrator or Photoshop
Corey
one at 100% one zoomed
Brian
I usually build every icon at every size. Resizing often makes a mess.
Dave
Keyline mode is often helpful
Brian
Dave’s using FH terms!
Dave
Heh. Recovering Freehander.
Corey
Ah, Freehand
Jon
Illustrator’s ‘Global Colours’ feature is a big help to me
Jon
then if I get the colours wrong, I can change the whole artwork easily
Josh
Tons of folks seem to think that just because we use vectors a lot that it’s all infinitely scalable. It’s not.
“Tons of folks seem to think that just because we use vectors a lot that it’s all infinitely scalable. It’s not.”
Josh
Lot’s of detail at 128×128 generally looks like crap at 16×16
Dave
That’s true, Josh, but I am interested in how the new icons will work in leopard
Josh
Vectors are nice, but generally you have to do clean up at the individual sizes, especially the tiny ones.
Jason
So, let’s change gears here a bit…
Jason
I’m curious what you guys think about icon piracy?
Jon
Arrr!
Josh
It happens.
Jason
What goes through your mind when you see someone clearly lift one of your icons without permission
Brian
Hang the pirates!
Corey
All we can do is keep our eyes open
Dave
I visit my not-inconsiderable wrath upon them.
Corey
We get quite a few emails alerting us about it
Michael
I’m sure it’s different when you’re doing app icons, but for web icons it’s pretty much inevitable
Corey
we send a quick note and it is usually resolved quickly
Brian
I stick pins in dolls which I hope look like them.
Michael
I mean, how many different ways can you do an email icon in 12×12?
Josh
It’s so easy to lift a small piece of artwork and reuse it elsewhere. In the end, it’s like anything digital though—they’re just easy to steal. You just kinda have to chalk that up to life.
Dave
I’ve always tried to use distinctive angles and styles, so there will at least be no doubt
Corey
we often got the "we hired a designer to do it" excuse
Jon
that goes for site designs too
Josh
Corey: I’ve heard that a million times
Jon
its the common get out clause
Josh
I think developing a style, like Dave says, is definitely helpful.
Josh
They’ll still get stolen, but it’ll be obvious
“I think developing a style is definitely helpful. They’ll still get stolen, but it’ll be obvious”
Jason
Does the size of the work really have anything to do with it?
Jason
It’s still taking your work without your permission.
Michael
Jason: Not, not really – just saying the line is a bit more blurry when you get down into the tiny sizes
Josh
Jason: I think the size does play a bit of an issue. It’s easier to clean up "red lines" from a lifted stock icon preview than say a detailed watermark from a photograph at Veer.
Jason
JW: Totally. And active piracy like that really bothers me. Someone taking the time to remove the proof. They obviously know it’s wrong then.
Dave
Over the years, we’ve become fairly conversant in legalese, so I just send them the form!
Corey
We have had our Factory show up on websites
Dave
There’s a helluva lot more people in the icon dodge these days than there used to be, too
Brian
Maybe we can get the RIAA involved here!
Jason
icon.drm
Jon
Its a shame, becuase watermarks can really ruin previews: http://www.mezzoblue.com/icons/chalkwork/
Josh
Just say no to icon DRM.
Jason
Better make those icons in AAC format!
Dave
everyday life!
Corey
yeah, that hurts my eyes
Josh
Yeah, I’ve seen the Mezzoblue icons without watermark, and they look really nice.
Corey
but it has to be done
Jason
Do you think the red lines/dots actively prevent piracy?
Jon
Jason: I think they help
Jon
it will put off the lazy ones
Josh
Not really. It’s a deterrent, but people can use stolen credit cards or lifted PayPal accounts to buy stuff too.
Michael
I think so too – it’s not just cut & paste to use the icons, you actually have to work at it to use them
Dave
You can’t keep people from burglarizing you, but you can at least lock your door.
Jason
Do you think you’d see an avalanche of piracy without the watermarks?
Jason
Josh: If not, why have them on your site? Has anyone considered just "lifting the watermark-style-drm" and seeing what happens?
Brian
Yes, without watermarks the lazy reign supreme.
Josh
JF: Yeah, probably. But the people who are going to steal them will figure out a way.
Michael
Exactly
Dave
I have to say that 15 years of the Internet has done little to bolster my faith in humanity. .-D
“15 years of the Internet has done little to bolster my faith in humanity.”
Josh
I think the watermarks are kinda your final way of saying, "Hey, we spent a lot of time on these… please don’t just take them."
Matt
What are your sources of inspiration?
Jon
Inspiration = Iconfactory
Michael
Iconfactory is the all-time no. 1 source of inspiration for us
Brian
Dave inspires me. And makes me green with envy.
Dave
Same here :-D
Corey
Thanks guys
Michael
They are the icon OG’s
Josh
Yeah, I think we all got into this in one way or another because of Iconfactory.
“We all got into this in one way or another because of Iconfactory.”
Corey
I have always loved Brian’s style
Dave
Brian remains an original – no one else like him
Josh
I’m inspired a lot by traditional and industrial artists
Matt
Related: What are your favorite non-digital icons (historical icons)?
Brian
Orthodox church.
Brian
I kid.
Corey
Josh’s Winter Games set rocks
Josh
Prev-wintergames-full
Josh
I’m a big fan of Marcel Mouly and his paintings.
Josh
Josh
I’m driven by contrast and color
Josh
Color and contrast doesn’t always make for the most usable icons, but they are pretty
Jon
I love the power icon
Matt
Icon-power-button
Jon
it doesn’t say ‘power’ to me at all
Jon
but somehow its become entrenched as having that meaning.
Brian
I’m not certain I know what’s meant by "historical icons".
Dave
Computer history?
Matt
icons that aren’t on computers, like maybe a road sign symbol or olympics icons.
Jon
I think it means things like the icon for Gents/Ladies loos
Corey
Architecture is always a source of inspiration for me
Brian
The original Beetles had nice icons!
Brian
Inside, I mean.
Corey
Frank Lloyd Wright, very "graphic"
Brian
The compact, but fraught with meaning 1940’s and 50’s spot illustrations.
Dave
Yes, agree, Brian.
Dave
Hard to say… I love old signage.
Dave
Stockholm is great for amazing old neon signs
Brian
German graphic arts before the nazis wrecked everything.
Josh
I’m also a big Frank Gehry fan… don’t know how that impacts my icons, but he always finds a level of beauty in practicality
Josh

Part 1 and Part 3.