[Fireside Chats are round table discussions conducted using Campfire.]
The Chatters
Dave Brasgalla (Icon Factory)
Brian Brasher (Firewheel Design)
Jon Hicks (Hicks Design)
Corey Marion (Icon Factory)
Michael Schmidt (Cuban Council)
Josh Williams (Firewheel Design)
(Moderated by Matt and Jason from 37signals)
| Matt | Is the movement towards increasingly three-dimensional/photo-realistic iconography of any demonstrable benefit in terms of usability? |
the rest of the question (from an SvN reader): "It appears to be largely motivated by marketing and branding/identity (which obviously has it’s own value). The constrains on Kare when she designed the original Mac icons forced her to abstract and simplify, much further than designers have to now. Was it this process that resulted in such effective icons?" |
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| Dave | In theory, yes |
| Corey | This same question came up when OSX was released |
| Brian | Yes, the technological limitations placed on Kare are what caused her to tap into genius. |
“The technological limitations placed on Kare are what caused her to tap into genius.”
| Jon | @Matt: I’d agree |
| Michael | And that question could also be applied to pretty much every web 2.0 site out there |
| Dave | There are examples in Aqua of how the icon can be realistic, and beautiful and simple and functional, all at once. |
| Josh | Personally, while the 3D stuff is usable, it’s not very practical in a rich application |
| Jon | the more complex icons get, the longer we have to spend doing them |
| Josh | I think a lot of it is about branding and pizazz, but it loses its use |
| Corey | Still needs to be well executed, no matter how complex |
| Dave | I prefer simple things. |
UI’s are getting pretty dandy-fied these days. |
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| Corey | And they must degrade well as they get smaller |
| Brian | Look at any of Dave’s OS 8-ish three-quarter portrait icons for more examples of genius. And the work of Mozco-Garash, wherever he’s gone. |
| Jon | I remember looking at Adobe tool palettes when I moved over to OS X – I hated that they weren’t just black and white pixel icons – all that fussy shadowing |
| Matt | Do you think there’s too much "icon overload" going on at sites these days? |
| Josh | I think there’s a movement towards using icons as badges (decoration) as opposed to functionality in a lot of social sites these days. It might be a bit overload. |
| Dave | I have to say these are one of my favorites of all that I have done: |
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| Jon | Genius! |
| Jason | Man those faces are amazing |
| Dave | Labour of love .-D |
| Josh | http://www.yelp.com uses badges a lot |
| Corey | all the icons for social bookmarking sites are out of control, but this mostly happens on personal blogs |
| Josh | Matt: I think Facebook is a good example of a site that uses icons correctly. It’s hard to find a site with more social complexity, thus they primarily rely on text links for actions. |
Then Facebook uses icons for indicators instead—which I think is a nice touch. |
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| Dave | There’s still a lot of kitchen sink going on, even with "web 2.0" |
| Michael |  |
| Jon | Social bookmarking icons is a good example of ‘too far’ |
| Dave | From websites to OS’s, there’s a lot of "noise and light" |
“From websites to OS’s, there’s a lot of ‘noise and light.’”
| Brian | Pretty medals. |
| Josh |
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| Michael | I like the crispness of the facebook icons |
But some of them are impossible to figure out |
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| Dave | It’s back to pixel-click |
| Josh | The icons are subtle, useful, and yet still somehow fun. |
| Corey | good, except for the hideous ad |
| Brian | But that ad … Ouch! |
| Josh | The ad can definitely die. |
| Corey | ads should be all text :-) |
| Matt | What do you guys look for in icons that "normal" people don’t see? |
| Corey | consistency |
| Josh | Matt: Attention to detail. The very subtle things, like 1 pixel highlights and shadows. |
| Brian | I suppose I want them to look pleasing enough that no one is displeased. |
| Dave | When i was working at a magazine, my mentor always said "make sure your editorial is always discernable from your advertising" |
| Michael | Josh W nailed it |
That’s also why stockicons.com are the best thing since sliced bread |
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| Jon | A lot of the time, I look for fun – but I guess thats what ‘normal’ people see too… |
| Michael | (or high-quality stock icon sites in general) |
| Jon | Clarity |
| Josh | I think there’s a lot to be said for designers who can work at a pixel level, like Eboy: |
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| Brian | I’m less about "fun" and more about "comfortable fit". |
| Corey | I think we all started there |
| Dave | I just know when i see it. |
| Corey | I still relish a good 16×16 toolbar icon project |
| Matt | Q: What’s the most you’ve ever charged for an icon project? You don’t need to name the client. |
| Brian | I think Josh charged ONE MEEEEEELION DOLLARS! |
| Josh | We have a semi-ongoing project that broke $100k a while back. Don’t know where that is today. |
*points pinky to teeth |
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| Dave | Some corporations are willing to throw LOT of money at icons |
| Brian | Let ‘em throw! |
| Dave | Which goes back to what we were talking about at the start |
| Matt | what side projects are you guys working on? |
| Josh | Well, our ongoing side project is IconBuffet: http://www.iconbuffet.com |
It’s morphed into this freaky social-type-network for designers and creative types |
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| Dave | Well, i really enjoyed making the music and sound effects for Frenzic |
I got to channel my inner Kraftwerk member |
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| Jon | A website for the Camino project, for the release of 1.5 |
| Corey | all of our software and http://www.stockicons.com |
| Michael | |
| Dave | I am remixing the old Man From UNCLE soundtracks |
| Corey | Frenzic has been fun and challenging |
| Jon | I love Frenzic, but have trouble with some of the colours |
| Brian | I’m trying to write a book, and it’s taking forever. |
| Josh | Of course, we also do Blinksale, for all your invoicing needs: http://www.blinksale.com |
| Josh | But it’s kinda not a side project anymore. |
| Dave | I will buy any book Brian writes. |
| Matt | what’s the book brian? about icon design? |
| Brian | No, it will detail why all my submissions to Threadless fail. |
| Josh | Brian also does the color palettes for our Colorburn widget: |
| Michael | Josh: Blinksale is super nice, btw. |
| Brian | |
| Josh | a wrap-up question: How much has Nintendo influenced icon design? |
| Brian | What’s a Nintendo? |
| Michael | 80s video games are the main reason we got into pixel art in the first place |
“80s video games are the main reason we got into pixel art in the first place.”
Never had a nintendo, though |
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| Dave | I’ve never had one. |
I was too busy playing Descent .-D |
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| Josh | Dave: Descent rocked. And Myth II. |
| Brian | Atari forever, baby! |
| Josh | I think I love the Nintendo DS so much because its a perfect medium for the rebirth of pixel art. |
| Dave | Mobile Phones are an interesting area for icons |
But maybe not for long. |
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| Brian | Yeah, for a lot of really crappy icons! |
| Dave | It’s like one of the last refuges of pixel-click |
| Josh | Until June, when the iPhone arrives. |
| Dave | But with the new phones coming out, we’re heading right back to Aqua land |
| Brian | 40-minute battery life. "Oops!"- Steve Jobs |
| Dave | The more things change… |
| Corey | It will be like 2000 again, when Steve dropped Aqua on us |
| Brian | ... the more iStuff Apple creates. |
| Dave | I’d just like to thank you lot for all the amazing icons you’ve done. |
| Matt | and i’d like to thank you all for participating here today. |
| Josh | Brian’s blog, worth a serious look |
Patrick
on 26 Apr 07Did I miss something? Where did that image of the medals come from?
Patrick
on 26 Apr 07Answered my own question above. Guess I had been remiss in not visiting K10k lately.
Andy Kant
on 26 Apr 07I love pixel art because of the challenge of working within the constraints (also the reason I like programming in Assembly).
Bob
on 26 Apr 07I would go insane if I had to work at eBoy. Lot’s of respect to them though.
Adam
on 26 Apr 07In regards to 80’s video games, I believe that the pixel art renaissance actually took place in the early to mid 90’s. Either way, I love the look of the newegg.com pixel-arty icons:
Newegg Icon link— Something about the “Blazing Deal!” icon bothers me, though.
I would love to see what these designers would have to say about weather icons:
Weather Icon Gallery
knapjack
on 28 Apr 07There’s an interesting observation at Tufte’s site regarding the cover image from his latest book showing up on the iPhone screenshot, so from a branding perspective, sure, photorealism works.
Contrast that with the list of medals and who in their right mind will remember what they signify? So, just like with branding, it has to be unique enough to serve its purpose. Photorealistic icons with little or no cognitive association (or worse, with multiple associations), or those that are effectively indistinguishable should be (measurably) detrimental to usability.
So, as much as I like Kare’s work, I also admire the iCal icon for entirely different reasons. Where’s the happy medium?
This discussion is closed.