The transcript from Episode #22: Programming roundtable (Part 3 of 3) of the 37signals Podcast is now available. Here’s an excerpt.
Question from SvN reader: “How do you keep up your interest in a project or product? Generally I get bored with projects after a few months.”
Jamis: Our team structure, I think, really helps that because we aren’t stuck on anything for more than about two months…Generally we work on small things, quick iterations, two or three weeks maybe for a single feature and then you move on to another product even to add something there. There’s not a lot of opportunity now for getting bored with what you’re working on.
Jeff: Even before the team structure, we sort of naturally would do things in small chunks. If you’re getting bored then you’re not doing good work, you’re not motivated. And none of us want that. So, we sort of have this built in desire to keep things small and achievable so that we can move on to something more exciting. So, I don’t really give myself much of a chance to get bored. If I find myself starting to get bored, it means that I’ve got to stop and be like: “What can I ship now and how can I go on to the next thing that feels new?”
Jeremy: I think that that feeling of being bored, there’s a little bit of self-entitlement…If you’re bored, you’re boring. You need to think about what you’re doing and find excitement in it. It takes motivation, it takes energy and you’ve got to pour it in. And if you’re not feeling it, you’re not feeling motivated, the answer probably isn’t in the product you’re working on or the code you’re working on. It’s in your approach to it, how you think about it, and how you think about your life.
Scott
on 21 Oct 10Spot on!
Joe
on 21 Oct 10Ok this is just ridiculous. Programming is indeed an art.
Imagine sketching a building. Sure, the structure and persona you give the building can be boring if you are a boring person, while interesting and stylish otherwise. But despite this, if you’re required to sketch each and every window in almost exactly the same way and also required that it contains, say, at least 100 windows, this portion of the sketch will get repetitive. It will be boring.
This has nothing to do with the programmer. Some things are inheritantly repetitive with no easy alternative. As a counter-proof: these such repetitive processes will be tolerable to a boring person, whereas an interesting person would want to get to the next inspiring part as quickly as possible.
Joe
on 21 Oct 10(Note that my last post extends to all design, not just programming.)
dean
on 21 Oct 10Jeremy is right on the point…bored people v. boring people.
I’m not a programmer or a designer, but I find the posts here interesting and inspiring. Great work 37signals.
Andrew
on 21 Oct 10When you’re bored or tired, do those things for the project that don’t require much thinking (preparing image files etc). When you wake up inspired, then do those things which’re exciting and new and which you haven’t tried before.
If you recognize the ebb and flow of your inspiration and save the correct work to match your mood, then even a looong project can go quickly and smoothly.
Jeff
on 21 Oct 10I too would have to respectfully disagree with Jeremy’s assertion that “If you’re bored, you’re boring.”
All reasonable endeavors have several elements that most people would find tedious, boring, uninspiring, etc. I believe it’s simplistic to think we should figure out a way to find every single part of our work super interesting. The higher aim should be finding ways to push through the dull moments. That’s where character comes in.
I’m re-reading James Krenov’s book “A Cabinetmaker’s Notebook”. Here’s arguably one of the best craftsmen of last 100 years mentioning his dislike of the machine room…”the pounding noise, dust so thick you can hardly see the walls…” He never decides to find a way to like the machine room, but he does find a way to take pleasure in the purpose of his craft – not necessarily in every aspect of working.
JK
on 22 Oct 10Jeff, I totally agree.
However, I feel the questioner’s boredom is more existential—”why doesn’t anything interest me, including my own work?”—than concrete—”if I have to design ONE more brochure I’m gonna snap.”
Tedium is manageable, but chronic burnout could be the face of some much-deeper ambivalence.
In that light, to the original questioner: sorry for my glib reply. Your project doesn’t owe you inspiration, but it sure doesn’t help to have that slapped in your face either. I’d suggest working more closely with others. The quickest way to turn your day around is to pair up with a colleague, even on the boring stuff (especially on the boring stuff!). Follow a leader who challenges you and brings out your best. If you’re on your own, throw in with a team; share your joys and burdens. Good luck.
Ryan
on 22 Oct 10I wonder how much this concept is shines through to the end product.
If the user also becomes bored using those parts of the application, much like an author not keeping the reader’s interest in his/her book.
Nick Lo
on 22 Oct 10I know absolutely nothing about the Jeremy that said that so I’m not picking on him personally but as a comment alone (and admittedly I’ve not listened to the podcast so I’m likely to be taking it out of context) that sounds like an extremely privileged comment to make. The world is not full of exciting stimulating jobs. Many literally are boring but still need to be done.
Suggesting that anyone bored, in what cannot, even with the most vivid imagination, be called an interesting job, has a sense of “self-entitlement” can only be the opinion of someone with a certain amount of privilege. Well done Jeremy for getting yourself into such a lucky position but don’t forget that not everyone has that privilege.
Thalasso
on 22 Oct 10Working on manageable products is definitely key. But manageability is primarily obtained by good planning. If people become bored it might be time to ask yourselves if the planning was good. Also important is relying on past experience to implement new ideas.
Anon
on 22 Oct 10I absolutely agree with your advice (and most of the rest of what you say), but I think what would be most helpful to the original questioner – and those of us who, like him, occasionally have to “fight ourselves” to make progress – would be to hear some brutal honesty:
You can’t possibly be happy with your [products, jobs, company, future, networking, speaking gigs, consulting, writing, life, etc.] every single minute of every single day. How does the 37s crew cope with those lulls, episodes of lack of motivation, procrastination, or even ennui?
merle
on 22 Oct 10If your projects seems to suck for some vague reason it is time to step back and take a look at the big picture. You will probably find out where you went wrong.
Dylan
on 23 Oct 10This happens to me all the time. As soon as my mind has had enough with a project, I start to wander on my computer. Before I know it, I’ve wasted an hour.
To combat this, I’ve blocked all my wander sites (email, forums, etc…) so I’m forced to get up and do something different to give my mind a rest.
Donny V
on 25 Oct 10Someone is watching to much MADMEN. January Jones says: “Only boring people get bored”
Brandon
on 25 Oct 10@Dylan
I have had to change my host file more than once to remove access to reddit, facebook, etc.
I think that often times projects don’t get finished not because we are bored with them (though that is the emotion that gets attributed most often), but because we are tired of them.
I remember watching a video of DHH speaking and someone asked him about overtime. His response is that programmers should not work more than 40 hours per week (or even less). Unfortunately that is not always reality. What is reality is that we will get a maximum of 40 hours of productivity. Beyond that, the mind will wander and we will get tired.
Tathagata
on 25 Oct 10The moment your stop learning something new, you will get bored with everything you do – doesn’t really depend if you are working on the same project or new projects everyday. It is just a hopeful assumption that switching projects will give you enough enthusiasm to learn new things. However, you can learn new things everyday even while working on the same project; it just takes a little bit more effort maybe.
d
on 25 Oct 10i’d agree with this. i was recently bored with what i was working on and so i just turned to some mind numbing work where I didn’t have to think that hard at doing it…just went through the motions. when i got bored with that, i went back to my project refreshed and ready to tackle the last part.
Bob
on 26 Oct 10Not all projects are interesting all the time. OTOH, if you don’t find yourself pursuing similar interests (design, code) on your own time you might want to consider looking for a line of work that you’re passionate about. You’ll know when you find it.
This discussion is closed.