Funny cause it’s true.

I have a second example, it you (37signals)

That’s why people need to be careful when suggesting that Apple emulation is always a good approach.

I would love to know what concepts spurred those statements.

@pwb: Because if everyone else is doing it, it MUST be better?

Apple definitely seems to be the top dog when it comes to marketing to the general public.

An interesting challenge in these types of meetings might be to have a “no apple” zone where you A) can’t say the word Apple or use them as an example and B) must still use examples in the marketing world.

Maybe there isn’t any, but this single quote has got me thinking. What else is out there doing it right? Is there anything? I will certainly be looking into this one for awhile.

Well, at Apple, we…

Weird, the commenting engine deleted the first half of the comment.

I, and most of the other ex-Apple employees I’ve worked with since, constantly find ourselves apologizing for the frequency at which statements begin with…

“Well, at Apple, we…” :)

I also find myseling saying “I know I mention them all the time, but 37signals blah blah blah”.

It kinda pisses me off actually.

Like

I find myself doing the same so often. I usually, when thinking of an example, try to quickly think of another firm doing something similar to not over use the “Apple” source. e.g. We need to reduce our product portfolio…like…erm… Henry Ford did back in the day.

Apple examples seem to come to mind first but I usually can find an example from Google, Nintendo, Toyota, Dyson or 37signals.

Can anyone think of an “Apple example” that one of this firms aren’t doing simliar?

If you’re talking about mobile devices, in the mid- and latter 1990s Palm had it right when Apple and Microsoft had it wrong.

In the 1970s, minicomputer manufacturers like Digital did it right, then overlooked microcomputers in the 1980s.

Things change over time. Tactics that move you up when you’re behind don’t necessarily work when you’re in the lead.

37 signals has done more for me in free advice on SVN than the products I’ve paid for by apple.

As another ex-Apple employee (hi Justin Maxwell) and owner of a design firm, I can’t tell you how many times potential clients want to the be the Apple of their vertical without fully understanding what that means: a huge army of talented people working relentlessly at the top of their game. I want to eat red hot nails when I find myself saying, “When at Apple, we…” But, I gotta say…it always works like black magic.

It is funny but everytime I see a presentation of other big companies it just doesn’t look good enough. The presenters usually don’t feel what they are talking about (like Yahoo on CeBIT in Germany which I wrote about on my blog). Even the last presentation of WebOS for HP. It looks a bit like Apple, but it is nothing outstanding.

With Apple everything is so minimal with the focus on products. Apple attracts visionary people… let’s face it.

37signals.com does it with web apps.

Was the context navigation that is as bad as the app store?

Apple makes nice computers. I wound’t change my MacBook. They also know a lot about marketing. That’s it. I wouldn’t change my phone for an iPhone and I won’t buy an iPad. By the way, the policies regarding apps development for iPhone and iPad are just ridiculous…. You buy the hardware, but you’re not free to use it. Mother Apple says what you can and cannot run on it and how developers should work. I can’t find words to describe how much I hate this kind of control and how much developers (and users in general) should be against it. Unfortunately, fanboys (that would call Microsoft names were they doing it) prefer to forget this side of Apple (37signals have expressed their views against these policies here, so they’re not this kind of fanboys I’m referring to).

@Rodrigo Ferreira

I think the popularity of the iPod, iPad and iPhone mean that most people don’t know, and don’t care, about the nature of closed development. Apple understands this better than many devs. When it comes down to developer friendliness vs. customer satisfaction, Apple will choose the latter over the former every single time.

I see a lot of comments that seem to suggest that Apple is just a big marketing machine. Their marketing department is very good, but it’s always second to their software and industrial engineering departments. They do incredibly complex things, and make it look so amazingly easy. Dual-core processor in a tablet that’s under 0.5” thick that gets 10h of battery life? Check. Seamless switch from PPC to Intel chips? check. Co-existing 32 & 64bit hardware on the same OS? check.

Other software and hardware companies may do similar things, but they still seem to think that people are interested in e.g., the difference between a 32 bit and a 64 bit OS. The result is that people are still terrified to choose the wrong thing because they don’t understand it. Apple says “choose one thing, and it will work.” And they do, it works, and they’re happy.

Actually, I am more than a little amused that nearly everyone is reading that in a positive context… :-)

Or should I be concerned that the group’s frame of reference appears to be not as broad as it could be? :-/

Porche? They apparently make an average of $30,000 profit per vehicle, have only ever had a 3-5 models at a time, and their core business has always been in the black (they had a year or two of losses due to a majority stake in VW). Their business can be praised for many of the same things that Apple’s can.

Actually, I am more than a little amused that nearly everyone is reading that in a positive context… :-)

Why wouldn’t they? Apple is the most successful company of the 21st century by every single metric: customer satisfaction, critical acclaim, stock price, brand reputation, you name it.

There isn’t another company that even makes a high-end PC anymore, or another company that makes a mobile PC yet.

What is it you’re snickering at? If you have another company that can be used as a similar example of product and marketing done right, please share.

By the way, the policies regarding apps development for iPhone and iPad are just ridiculous….

You admit you have no experience with these products but you think you know something about them, and you just don’t.

You buy the hardware, but you’re not free to use it.

Sure you are. You’re free to run any W3C app from any server anywhere in the world in by far the best HTML5 environment available today. The apps install locally and have a home screen icon just like App Store apps and run even without a Web connection. They are more sophisticated than the typical phone app with hardware accelerated graphics and many other features that, for example, Android apps do not have. HTML5 is the most open application platform ever.

You’re also free, if you choose, to run any App Store app from Apple’s managed, malware-free store with consumer-friendly, music and movies -type installs, and with parental controls so it’s even safe for kids. People who don’t have the IT skills to audit and install native apps, who do not even know what “malware” is (like my roommate) are LIBERATED by App Store. For many people, these are the first non-Web apps they have ever installed. Many indie developers are making a living selling apps for the first time in App Store because of the well-designed monetization system.

Mother Apple says what you can and cannot run on it and how developers should work.

Again, no you are wrong. Run whatever you choose on your iPhone or iPad. Run W3C apps, or run Apple apps, or run a mix of both. Develop for one or the other or both, or neither. Run iTunes music and movies, or run Netflix and Hulu, or side load music and movies from any source through your Mac or PC. Run iBooks or Kobo or Kindle books on iPad, even though Kindle is Kindle books only, or side load open ePub from any source.

I can’t find words to describe how much I hate this kind of control and how much developers (and users in general) should be against it

It is you who is telling users and developers what to do, not Apple (“should”). You have the totalitarian viewpoint “everything open all the time” while Apple offers one app platform that is the most open ever (W3C) and one app platform that is the most managed ever (App Store) and enables users and developers to choose what is right for them: all open, all managed, or a mix of both. Or again, choose neither. Either don’t buy an Apple iOS device or don’t develop for them.

But please, spare us you shooting your mouth off about something you yourself admit you have no experience with. Your viewpoint has been argued many times, tried many times, and has failed to produce the results that users want. What is needed in a native app platform is an alternative to the world’s common cross-platform Web app platform, not an imitation of it. The most obvious example of this is the freedom of malware on the Web and the freedom from malware in App Store.

And ultimately, nothing succeeds like success. Apple had no IBM or DOS monopoly to leverage. They offered a product straight up to individual users who have voted with their feet. Apple’s customers are happy, that is the point of this article.

“The choice is not between order and liberty. It is between liberty with order and anarchy without either.” (Justice Jackson, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminiello_v._Chicago).

I agree some level of control sometimes is necessary to preserve the order. That’s fine. But sometimes the control exceeds the necessary to preserve the order (in most cases, because there are some other not so legit reasons behind it).

That said, if Apple wants to control what goes to the App Store, just fine. But saying a user could run an W3C app so he’s free to use the hardware is just a joke.

please, spare us you shooting your mouth off about something you yourself admit you have no experience with.[/quote]

1. That’s not only my opinion, as any minimally informed person would know, and there’s a lot behind these Apple decisions far, far away from the “user’s happiness” speech.

2. The fact I don’t own an iPhone or iPad doesn’t mean I don’t have experience with Apple rules for app deployment for iPhone and iPads. In fact, your comment is as clever as saying that to comment NASA’s policies on astronaut recruitment someone should own a spacecraft… Really clever.

@Rodrigo Ferreira

You can put apps you write on your iPad/Phone, you can put all the apps from the AppStore on your phone, or you can chose to jailbreak it and put on anything you want. Granted, the last one isn’t acceptable to Apple, but they really don’t care if you do it.

The truth is, I have an iPad and an Android phone, and based on user experience the iPad destroys the Android, and let’s face it, THAT’s what 99% of the people out there care about. The fact that over 200,000 people downloaded and installed malware infected apps from the Google Market is more than enough to scare the bejeebus out of me.

Another important thing is, the iOS market is the only one that is even remotely profitable for a small development shop. Android users don’t pay for apps and as for WP7… let’s just say that those six people without bricked phones aren’t buying much. The iPad 2, on the other hand, sold out in two days across America.

I’d suggest trying an iPad for a week and you’ll definitely change your mind. It’s easy to pick on Apple, and maybe 10 years from now they’ll be Microsoft 2.0, but as of now they do everything incredible well.