In part two, the design gurus chat about what they’d be doing if it they weren’t designing, letterpressing, time management, influences, and moodboards/comps.
| Matt | If you weren’t working in this industry, what could you see yourself doing? |
| Jason | [Note: Jason Santa Maria, not Jason Fried] I love making things with my hands. If I weren’t a (graphic) designer, I might like to make furniture. |
Or if I weren’t doing web work, I might like to go back to print design. I would love to design books. |
|
| Ryan | I want to direct movies. |
And sometimes, gardening seems appealing. |
|
| Dan | Yep, creating something/anything |
| Matt | Ryan’s dream scenario: directing a movie about gardening. ; ) |
| Jason | :) |
| Dan | I’d watch |
| Greg | LOL |
| Ryan | That would be a box office smash. |
| Greg | The Web Standards Gardener? |
| Dan | CSS Zen Garden: The Movie |
| Matt | Q for all: What’s something that you’ve learned (or been learning) recently? |
| Jason | Letterpress printing and sewing |
| Dan | Jason, loved the letterpress stuff you posted about. |
was inspiring |
|
| Jason | Thanks! |
| Jason | It’s an incredible feeling to get to actually use metal type |
Completely different appreciation for the past and for typography |
|
| Dan | Has it helped you with typography on the web? (easy question, but..) |
| Jason | Well, to me, letterpress is all about spacing |
Finding the best way to make things legible and getting a much more detailed view of letterforms |
|
Being able to see text as content, but all as art, and something beautiful |
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| Matt | JSM: It’s definitely nice to make something real after dealing with pixels. |
| Ryan | I’m learning to appreciate down time and rest. |
| Dan | I’m with Ryan—I’m leaning that time management is just about as important as anything. Work/life balance is key, even if you love what you’re doing |
| Matt | Any secrets to share re: time management? |
| Jason | Set a schedule, and stick to it. Actually factor in time to read, go for a walk (of course, this makes more sense when you are your own boss) |
| Ryan | I’m learning to say no and to do what I say I’ll do. |
| Greg | I need to hire more people, I barely have enough time for food and sleep |
Every morning is a twelve step program |
|
| Matt | GS, if only there was a job board somewhere for you to post on! |
| Greg | Yeah but I would need Authentic results |
zing! |
|
| Jason | :D |
| Ryan | HAHA |
| Matt | def deleted from transcript! |
| Greg | LOL |
| Ryan | HAHA |
Oh man |
|
| Dan | :D |
| Matt | OK, another big picture question: Who is your biggest influence? |
| Greg | Studio Archetype |
before they were sold and turned into Sapient |
|
| Dan | Anyone who designed a 7" sleeve in Boston from say 1990-2000. |
| Jason | Influences change as tastes change for me. |
| Greg | Max Huber… Chip Kidd… |
| Jason | Rand, Mok, Chris Ware, Chip Kidd |
| Ryan | Will Ferrell |
| Dan | omg Will Ferrell, yes |
| Greg | Do any of you use mood boards for projects? |
| Jason | Nah |
| Ryan | Nope. |
| Dan | Embarassed that I don’t know what it is |
| Jason | That seems like something to appease a timid client |
| Greg | Sometimes I wonder of using Moodboards would eliminate some of the typical client art direction phaes |
| Ryan | I don’t even know what the futon that is |
| Jason | moodboards reek of the hollywood "Jerry Maguire meets Friday the 13th" pitch methodology |
| Greg | I’d rather do a mood board than provide three comps |
I’m done with the three comps things |
|
| Dan | Greg, I’m done with that as well, |
| Jason | Three comps too many? |
way too many |
|
| Dan | 1 ends up being one that I put 80% effort into |
client never chooses that one |
|
| Greg | yeah |
it’s like giving a kid three choices of which candy they want |
|
| Dan | and I spend the rest of the project not "feeling it" |
| Greg | but I’m through with the three design directions, it’s like creating your own Nospec problem |
| Matt | we gave up on the 3 directions thing long ago. it always turned into a little bit from column a, a little bit from column b, etc. |
| Jason | If I have to do 3 comps for a client, I usually try to solve the problem 3 different ways. Because there is always more than one way to solve a problem. |
| Ryan | I never got that whole 3 thing. |
No matter how hard I tried, I could really only see it one way… but that’s just me. |
|
| Dan | I just can’t get myself to be committed to more than one direction |
| Jason | It all depends on your process for getting to the solutions |
| Ryan | Maybe I’m just lazy. |
| Dan | Ryan, then you and me both :) |
| Jason | The worst way for me to solve something is to try and cut right to the problem |
| Greg | Don’t hire Happy Cog, they only do 3 comps… at Airbag we have spent millions on research to find that 4 comps are better |
This is part two of a three part chat. Part one of this chat. Part three of this chat.
Guests
Dan Cederholm
Jason Santa Maria
Ryan Sims
Greg Storey
[Fireside Chats are round table discussions conducted using Campfire.]
shane
on 16 Oct 06I’m assuming a mood board is similar to Joe Duffy’s methodology of showing clients various collage boards of consistent imagery clippings?
D&P do that so the client feels involved in the look and feel before the design team puts any real work into a given direction.
Is that what a mood board is?
James Collins
on 16 Oct 06This is a great concept. I am in this boat for sure.
ML
on 16 Oct 06@shane, Moodboard:
Joshua Lane
on 16 Oct 06@ Greg: Much like Gillette, I’ve discovered that FIVE is really the best!
Mark
on 16 Oct 06A request for multiple comps sometimes means the client isn’t sure what they want, or they believe they’ll know it when they see it.
“Bring me a rock… no, not that rock.”
I find I can sometimes better serve a client on the front end by exploring concepts like ‘mood’ or ‘feeling’, providing one concept, then discussing how that concept achieves (or doesn’t achieve) our goal. Multiple comps too quickly becomes about what a client likes personally (designwise, typographically, compsotionally), and not how a concept solves (or doesn’t solve) a problem.
Keith
on 16 Oct 06I’d love to hear some more about moodboards vs. comps. I’m too familiar with the “create 3 comps, have them choose the one you like least” and while I’ve gotten better at selling the direction I feel best solves a problem, I’d really like to hear how others work.
One thing in specific. How do you sell a client on an “alternative process” like moodboards and one iterative design direction. Especially when 3 comps is something they expect. For me that’s been the hardest part.
joe McGill
on 16 Oct 06mood boards always remind me of the episode of “blow out” when the packaging designer for the jonathan product shower filters tried to show johnathan a bowl full of rocks to set direction. jonathan almost had a meltdown which totally could have been avoided by cutting strait to the box (which is awesome btw).
dmr
on 16 Oct 06Mood boards sound like a high school collage project; oh god, how awful. “I cut out this cool red car because I like the color red, and I like cars. And I found this picture of Brad Pitt… he’s really hot and I like hot guys so I put him on there. Then I cutout this sunset on the beach… I love the beach, and the red car is driving toward the sunset because I like red cars and sunsets.”
Sweet.
k8
on 16 Oct 06Echo to everything Keith said. We constantly fall into the 3 comps trap and usually end up eating the budget trying to piece elements from each design together into one incoherent whole. i’d love to hear success stories about selling alternative methods (to both the client and to internal management on 3 comp default).
Alex
on 16 Oct 06Whoa, mood boards. We had to do those in secondary school as the first step in both Textiles and Graphic Design. They always sucked, but then, most of the things I did in those classes did.
Paulo
on 16 Oct 06K8—
I know this sounds like a simplistic response but, in the end, it boils down to communication, trust, and confidence when interacting with the client(s). Once you score those you can break away from the traditional 3 comps here, 3 rounds of this BS.
Communication—I am not sure where a lot of our clients were coming from but the first thing we hear when we get a new client (who did not have a good experience with their last freelancer or web/design shop) is how impressed they are with our efforts to keep them in the loop… That seems like a no-brainer to me but a lot of clients are coming from a situation feeling like they were left out to dry.
The big part here is to really listen to their needs so you can truly solve the client’s needs. This will allow you to gain trust and give you the confidence to show why your professional opinion should be taken seriously.
Trust—Through the open communication you build trust. Sure you will butt heads and clients will feel like their way is right at the beginning. Soon enough they will see the light as you prove to them why you were hired for your expertise. If they do not appreciate what you bring to the table then cut them loose. They will eventually come back and listen.
Confidence—You were hired for a reason. There is a fine line between catering to the client’s needs and giving into their every demand. Present your solutions with confidence and clients will slowly, but surely, listen to you and stop playing the tug-of-war they have been used to playing with others.
Getting the client to tear down that wall of distrust they seem to have opens up a world of possibilities. If you can do that then work with clients becomes amazingly fulfilling.
k8
on 17 Oct 06Thanks, Paulo. All excellent points.
Matt
on 17 Oct 06Wow. You guys really nailed the dilemma of feeling like you must present 3 (or more) comps to a client. I used to do this quite often. Now that I trust my own skills/judgement a bit more, I usually show clients a single design early on in the process-before i’m even attached to it-and then use it to get some great feedback. A few iterations, some polishing, and the design process usually moves a lot quicker for both of us.
I like these chats, quite a bit. Thanks guys.
paulo Elias
on 17 Oct 06K8, no problem at all.
Per Matt’s comment, I agree with him. These chats are awesome!
Also, after being a Basecamp user for over a year or so our studio is finally seeing the value with the integrated CampFire chat functionality… why in the hell did it take us so long?
This discussion is closed.